2009 Chicago Bears offseason

[jersey cubs fan]

I'm scared to death about the Bears drafting a wide receiver early, given their absolutely horrible record of developing their own and their irrational need to banish their guys who don't fit perfectly into their nonexistent scheme.

[rawaction]

Isnt the biggest question mark regarding Harvin his durability ?

 

Yeah, he got hurt fairly consistently at Florida. He's an incredible talent with terrific speed and surprisingly good strength, but he was on and off the field quite a bit at UF.

 

That said, I think he's well worth the risk durability-wise. As I said, he's a terrific athlete. I do wonder, however, if he'd be the best pick for the Bears. He's a more polished, stronger receiver than Hester, but they both have very similar styles. I would think a DHB, Nicks or Britt type would be better since you already have Hester.

 

yeah, the reason I like Britt and Nicks more is because they are more sure bets. There have been a lot of WRs that can fly and get compared to the next Steve Smith, and most fall short. Britt and Nicks are better bets to be good (maybe not great), and quickly. And the fact that you may be able to get one of these guys at 49 vs. getting a high risk/reward guy at 18, then I think you go w/ the more sure thing as the Bears have a lot of other needs. It's a lot more damaging to pick a bust at 18 than at 49.

[dew1679666265]

Isnt the biggest question mark regarding Harvin his durability ?

 

Yeah, he got hurt fairly consistently at Florida. He's an incredible talent with terrific speed and surprisingly good strength, but he was on and off the field quite a bit at UF.

 

That said, I think he's well worth the risk durability-wise. As I said, he's a terrific athlete. I do wonder, however, if he'd be the best pick for the Bears. He's a more polished, stronger receiver than Hester, but they both have very similar styles. I would think a DHB, Nicks or Britt type would be better since you already have Hester.

 

I've heard questions about DHB & Britt's hands. If that's true, there's nothing that can kill a WR prospect faster than dropping the ball.

 

Yeah, they definitely have some concerns surrounding their hands. But, both are extremely physically gifted and, I think, worth the risk. I'd put them behind Crabtree, Maclin, Harvin though.

 

Harvin: I don't know, I guess it depends on the level of injury concern we're talking about. Will he never play? Or will he just miss a couple games a year? Hard to say.

 

Harvin completely missed 5 games in his college career (three years). He was very banged up in quite a few more, but a lot of that - like raw said - was because he played a lot of running back at Florida. You eliminate him running in between the tackles as much, I think the injuries would drop. How much is the question, though.

[dew1679666265]

Harvin also has ?s because he was a RB at Florida. He supposedly didn't run the "route tree" in college. While I do think his route running will be very raw, I don't see him being a similar player to Hester. I look at Harvin having played RB in the SEC as a positive, not a negative. He did get hurt, but he took some hits running inside the tackles. Because of this I think he can do a lot more damage in traffic than Hester, who clearly shies away from any kind of contact.

 

Harvin will go from having to run thru his own line, defensive lines, LBs and then DBs to being a WR and not taking too many hits from lineman. That alone should help his durability. He's strong as an OX (22 reps of 225lbs). I think he's a lot more Steve Smith than Reggie Bush. That being said, to think he could be as good as Smith would be premature.

 

Harvin wasn't just a RB at Florida, but he did line up in the backfield quite often. Urban Meyer didn't have a good, productive running back until last year, so Harvin was his best option to put back there.

 

However, running the spread option, it wasn't an oddity for Harvin to run some routes out of the backfield. He also lined up at wideout quite a bit, so it's not like he'll be Hester-like raw at running routes.

[Soul]

One thing that is nice -- I'm pretty much convinced a solid WR prospect will be there for us @ 18.

 

Like Goony says though -- there's no evidence at all the Bears can bring in a WR prospect and successfully develop him. And there's plenty of evidence they wont' take kindly to him if he struggles, and just write him off. Kind of like they did with Bradley.

 

So it's scary. I wish we had more of track record of developing offensive players. But we just don't.

[jersey cubs fan]

One thing that is nice -- I'm pretty much convinced a solid WR prospect will be there for us @ 18.

 

Like Goony says though -- there's no evidence at all the Bears can bring in a WR prospect and successfully develop him. And there's plenty of evidence they wont' take kindly to him if he struggles, and just write him off. Kind of like they did with Bradley.

 

So it's scary. I wish we had more of track record of developing offensive players. But we just don't.

 

You'd probably have to take the most technically sound good soldier type WR if the Bears are going to make it work. Anybody who might give off the impression of dogging it a bit, or freelancing too much, or being a little "head strong", is going to run into issues with the Bears. WR tend to be unique characters, and the Bears don't do well with that. Throw one of 'em first round bonus money, and the odds for failure with the Bears are probably as high or higher than any other team in the league.

[rawaction]

One thing that is nice -- I'm pretty much convinced a solid WR prospect will be there for us @ 18.

 

Like Goony says though -- there's no evidence at all the Bears can bring in a WR prospect and successfully develop him. And there's plenty of evidence they wont' take kindly to him if he struggles, and just write him off. Kind of like they did with Bradley.

 

So it's scary. I wish we had more of track record of developing offensive players. But we just don't.

 

You'd probably have to take the most technically sound good soldier type WR if the Bears are going to make it work. Anybody who might give off the impression of dogging it a bit, or freelancing too much, or being a little "head strong", is going to run into issues with the Bears. WR tend to be unique characters, and the Bears don't do well with that. Throw one of 'em first round bonus money, and the odds for failure with the Bears are probably as high or higher than any other team in the league.

 

Yep, that's another reason why I'd prefer to wait til the 2nd.

[Soul]

One thing that is nice -- I'm pretty much convinced a solid WR prospect will be there for us @ 18.

 

Like Goony says though -- there's no evidence at all the Bears can bring in a WR prospect and successfully develop him. And there's plenty of evidence they wont' take kindly to him if he struggles, and just write him off. Kind of like they did with Bradley.

 

So it's scary. I wish we had more of track record of developing offensive players. But we just don't.

 

You'd probably have to take the most technically sound good soldier type WR if the Bears are going to make it work. Anybody who might give off the impression of dogging it a bit, or freelancing too much, or being a little "head strong", is going to run into issues with the Bears. WR tend to be unique characters, and the Bears don't do well with that. Throw one of 'em first round bonus money, and the odds for failure with the Bears are probably as high or higher than any other team in the league.

 

Yep, that's another reason why I'd prefer to wait til the 2nd.

 

It's pretty bad when you're hoping that your team waits until a later round for a player because they might not be able to handle their own expectations. LOL.

[rawaction]

Isnt the biggest question mark regarding Harvin his durability ?

 

Yeah, he got hurt fairly consistently at Florida. He's an incredible talent with terrific speed and surprisingly good strength, but he was on and off the field quite a bit at UF.

 

That said, I think he's well worth the risk durability-wise. As I said, he's a terrific athlete. I do wonder, however, if he'd be the best pick for the Bears. He's a more polished, stronger receiver than Hester, but they both have very similar styles. I would think a DHB, Nicks or Britt type would be better since you already have Hester.

 

I've heard questions about DHB & Britt's hands. If that's true, there's nothing that can kill a WR prospect faster than dropping the ball.

 

Yeah, they definitely have some concerns surrounding their hands. But, both are extremely physically gifted and, I think, worth the risk. I'd put them behind Crabtree, Maclin, Harvin though.

 

Harvin: I don't know, I guess it depends on the level of injury concern we're talking about. Will he never play? Or will he just miss a couple games a year? Hard to say.

 

Harvin completely missed 5 games in his college career (three years). He was very banged up in quite a few more, but a lot of that - like raw said - was because he played a lot of running back at Florida. You eliminate him running in between the tackles as much, I think the injuries would drop. How much is the question, though.

 

The 5 missed games are misleading though. Was it twice that he got hurt between the final SEC game and the bowl game? I know last year he technically only missed the SEC championship. But in the NFL, he would have had a game every week between then and the bowl game. So, he could easily miss 6 games with the same injury in the NFL.

 

Also, anybody clamoring to have Pat White to run the wildcat should be plenty happy with Harvin in the same formation.

[dew1679666265]

The 5 missed games are misleading though. Was it twice that he got hurt between the final SEC game and the bowl game? I know last year he technically only missed the SEC championship. But in the NFL, he would have had a game every week between then and the bowl game. So, he could easily miss 6 games with the same injury in the NFL.

 

Yeah, that's why I mentioned that he was pretty banged up a lot of the time as well. Had he had games between the SEC Title game and the bowl game, he would not have played those.

 

And he missed two games last year - the SEC championship game and the opening Hawaii game. If I remember right, though, he could have played the Hawaii game if they had any need for him.

 

Also, anybody clamoring to have Pat White to run the wildcat should be plenty happy with Harvin in the same formation.

 

The only thing Pat White has on Harvin in that system is the threat of throwing the ball. I don't know if Harvin can throw it or not, while White has a pretty decent arm.

[WrigleyField 22]

 

Also, anybody clamoring to have Pat White to run the wildcat should be plenty happy with Harvin in the same formation.

If that was the Bears direction, they couldn't really do better as far as draft picks.

[gflore34]

so now the Bears appearantly are intersested in Cutler

 

http://blogs.chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/huddleup/2009/03/denver-broncos-quarterback-jay-cutler-reportedly-on-bears-radar.html

 

Perhaps, they've been interested all along and now it's public. I can't see why Angelo wasn't all over this, after the season did he not babble on about the need for a QB?

[jersey cubs fan]

so now the Bears appearantly are intersested in Cutler

 

http://blogs.chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/huddleup/2009/03/denver-broncos-quarterback-jay-cutler-reportedly-on-bears-radar.html

 

Perhaps, they've been interested all along and now it's public. I can't see why Angelo wasn't all over this, after the season did he not babble on about the need for a QB?

 

He did, but then he changed his tune. I still think he's been interested in Cutler since the story started. The lack of public, "we're in love with him" proclamations means nothing.

[Butterscup1679666578]

so now the Bears appearantly are intersested in Cutler

 

http://blogs.chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/huddleup/2009/03/denver-broncos-quarterback-jay-cutler-reportedly-on-bears-radar.html

 

Perhaps, they've been interested all along and now it's public. I can't see why Angelo wasn't all over this, after the season did he not babble on about the need for a QB?

 

or, just to play devil's advocate, they really aren't interested but since angelo has been receiving a ton of flak this off-season he's just saying they were, but couldn't work something out.

[minnesotacubsfan]

so now the Bears appearantly are intersested in Cutler

 

http://blogs.chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/huddleup/2009/03/denver-broncos-quarterback-jay-cutler-reportedly-on-bears-radar.html

 

Perhaps, they've been interested all along and now it's public. I can't see why Angelo wasn't all over this, after the season did he not babble on about the need for a QB?

 

He did, but then he changed his tune. I still think he's been interested in Cutler since the story started. The lack of public, "we're in love with him" proclamations means nothing.

 

according to the article, it would have been tampering if the Bears were public about their interest. I have no idea how the Jets get away with it here then

[jersey cubs fan]

so now the Bears appearantly are intersested in Cutler

 

http://blogs.chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/huddleup/2009/03/denver-broncos-quarterback-jay-cutler-reportedly-on-bears-radar.html

 

Perhaps, they've been interested all along and now it's public. I can't see why Angelo wasn't all over this, after the season did he not babble on about the need for a QB?

 

He did, but then he changed his tune. I still think he's been interested in Cutler since the story started. The lack of public, "we're in love with him" proclamations means nothing.

 

according to the article, it would have been tampering if the Bears were public about their interest. I have no idea how the Jets get away with it here then

 

Lovie and Jerry have both commented that it would be tampering. The Jets stories, that I know of, don't consist of their people being quoted about wanting Cutler.

[Soul]

so now the Bears appearantly are intersested in Cutler

 

http://blogs.chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/huddleup/2009/03/denver-broncos-quarterback-jay-cutler-reportedly-on-bears-radar.html

 

Perhaps, they've been interested all along and now it's public. I can't see why Angelo wasn't all over this, after the season did he not babble on about the need for a QB?

 

He did, but then he changed his tune. I still think he's been interested in Cutler since the story started. The lack of public, "we're in love with him" proclamations means nothing.

 

according to the article, it would have been tampering if the Bears were public about their interest. I have no idea how the Jets get away with it here then

 

Lovie and Jerry have both commented that it would be tampering. The Jets stories, that I know of, don't consist of their people being quoted about wanting Cutler.

 

Right. So just leak it through a 3rd source that certain reporters know have a line to the relevant people. Tampering problem solved.

[jersey cubs fan]

Right. So just leak it through a 3rd source that certain reporters know have a line to the relevant people. Tampering problem solved.

 

except there is no benefit to that.

[jersey cubs fan]

I didn't read it, but judging by the headline, it's stupid. A prominent writer in a major chicago paper says "last thing Bears need is crybaby Cutler." When you go to the sports section it refers to him as a quitter. And the opening paragraph on the artice tries to compare it to how Bears fans would react if Kyle Orton demanded a trade.

 

 

This is asinine. Yes, he's looking a little like a crybaby. But he was clearly the best player on his team, and not just by default. He's very good. A new coach comes in and tries to replace him. That's pretty stupid. Coach/QB is a relationship unlike any other in sports, especially when that coach is offensive minded. The QB is easily the most important player, and probaly qualifies as 2nd most important coach on the team.

 

Cutler is very good at it, and Orton isn't in his league. Bears fans would rightfully react negatively to Orton demanding a trade because Orton has built up very little credibility.

[Soul]

Cassel may have had a good year in a good system, but I still think it's close to idiocy for McDaniels to want to dump Cutler for him -- especially since there's no way he could possibly have known enough about Cutler to make that kind of sweeping judgement that early on.

 

Plus, if you're being hired for the first time as coach into a system that already has a franchise QB, it's pretty much up to you to make it work. The franchise guy is not going to up & leave kindly. And fans aren't going to accept it.

 

McDaniels' moves on this were just all kinds of wrong.

 

Cutler may have cried about it too much, but this is on McDaniels IMO.

[Soul]

I just read the Morrissey article. Yeah -- that's pretty much just stupidity.

 

Took him 4 paragraphs to wheel out his clinching statistic: Cutler's only 17-20 as starter!! The end. You lose.

 

You didn't hear a peep out of him [Orton] as the Cutler talk heated up around town. None of that necessarily makes Orton a great quarterback, but I'd much rather have someone in the huddle who doesn't cave in at the first sign of trouble.

 

My goodness. Orton doesn't say anything because he knows he's lucky to be starting anywhere.

 

Who on earth decides to draw comparisons between a shaky starter who will be lucky to be in the league in a couple years, and a star QB who just put up 4,500 yards with a %60+ completion rate??

[WrigleyField 22]

Asked another question to the draft guy at RealGM and got this response.

 

Well I already got my Pat White question answered before, so thanks for that.

 

You've also had Maclin going to the Bears in the first round twice in a row now. I read some article that says Harvin is the Bears guy. Do you have any input on this? Is Maclin just there because WR is an obvious need and Maclin is the best available? Could they go after Harvin too? Any insight on the Bears first rounder and WR would be great. Thanks.

 

In the next incarnation Maclin will be long gone by the time Chicago picks. In earlier versions I actually had Harvin, and I know one of the keys for them is that he can supplant Peterson as the 3rd down RB, which is a point of emphasis this offseason. Now that they signed Kevin Shaffer (GREAT move IMO), it sure looks like Harvin is a real possibility. But don't rule out a 3-technique DT to play next to Harris at that spot either--and both Peria Jerry and Jarron Gilbert are in play. Kenny Britt has their attention too, and they love his size at WR.

[minnesotacubsfan]

who is this REALGM guy? how much water does he hold?

[WrigleyField 22]

who is this REALGM guy? how much water does he hold?

He's not a huge name, but from what I can gather he has contacts and NFL teams actually pay him to devise different draft "strategies" such as "run on WRs" or "run on RBs". His actual name is Jeff Risdon. I googled his name and haven't found anything definitive to confirm, but RealGM is generally a pretty well run website, and I'd take anything they report with more than just a grain of salt. But obviously wouldn't take it as gospel either. A really big grain of salt maybe.

 

I didn't follow his articles last draft, so I can't compare how accurate he was or anything, but I'd lean towards the idea that he has contacts. Even with contacts, he may be completely off, but its something.

 

edit-

here's something: I guess he has been featured in Sirius radio:

http://www.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=55&t=807539

So he must have some credentials.

[dew1679666265]

Asked another question to the draft guy at RealGM and got this response.

 

Well I already got my Pat White question answered before, so thanks for that.

 

You've also had Maclin going to the Bears in the first round twice in a row now. I read some article that says Harvin is the Bears guy. Do you have any input on this? Is Maclin just there because WR is an obvious need and Maclin is the best available? Could they go after Harvin too? Any insight on the Bears first rounder and WR would be great. Thanks.

 

In the next incarnation Maclin will be long gone by the time Chicago picks. In earlier versions I actually had Harvin, and I know one of the keys for them is that he can supplant Peterson as the 3rd down RB, which is a point of emphasis this offseason. Now that they signed Kevin Shaffer (GREAT move IMO), it sure looks like Harvin is a real possibility. But don't rule out a 3-technique DT to play next to Harris at that spot either--and both Peria Jerry and Jarron Gilbert are in play. Kenny Britt has their attention too, and they love his size at WR.

 

I think they'd be crazy to take Jarron Gilbert in the middle of the first round. I like him, but he ought to be there early to mid second. They could probably trade up from their current second round spot a few positions and get him relatively easily.