2009 Chicago Bears offseason

[dew1679666265]

Here's a strike against Lovie. He's already anointed Orton as the starter for next year.

 

All players will have competition,'' Bears coach Lovie Smith said, according to Chicago media outlets. ''Everybody's in the same group. But Kyle is our quarterback. He has done a lot of good things for us this year, but we all start from scratch and go from there.

 

This doesn't bother me. Some of the stuff Lovie has said indicating they were "close" this year does, but they have so many other areas that need fixing...draft a QB, let him sit behind Orton and learn. This team can be successful with Orton as QB.

 

I really think they need some type of weapon on that offense other than Matt Forte and Greg Olsen. If they don't replace Orton with somebody better, they should find a receiver better than Hester.

[Banedon]

Here's a strike against Lovie. He's already anointed Orton as the starter for next year.

 

All players will have competition,'' Bears coach Lovie Smith said, according to Chicago media outlets. ''Everybody's in the same group. But Kyle is our quarterback. He has done a lot of good things for us this year, but we all start from scratch and go from there.

 

This doesn't bother me. Some of the stuff Lovie has said indicating they were "close" this year does, but they have so many other areas that need fixing...draft a QB, let him sit behind Orton and learn. This team can be successful with Orton as QB.

 

I really think they need some type of weapon on that offense other than Matt Forte and Greg Olsen. If they don't replace Orton with somebody better, they should find a receiver better than Hester.

 

I wholeheartedly agree on WR. But if Orton really was playing on a gimpy ankle in the second half of the season, I think he deserves another shot at it while we upgrade both lines, and WR.

[Wilson A2000]

I really think they need some type of weapon on that offense other than Matt Forte and Greg Olsen. If they don't replace Orton with somebody better, they should find a receiver better than Hester.

 

Boldin.

[dew1679666265]

I really think they need some type of weapon on that offense other than Matt Forte and Greg Olsen. If they don't replace Orton with somebody better, they should find a receiver better than Hester.

 

Boldin.

 

That'd be a great move.

[dew1679666265]

Here's a strike against Lovie. He's already anointed Orton as the starter for next year.

 

All players will have competition,'' Bears coach Lovie Smith said, according to Chicago media outlets. ''Everybody's in the same group. But Kyle is our quarterback. He has done a lot of good things for us this year, but we all start from scratch and go from there.

 

This doesn't bother me. Some of the stuff Lovie has said indicating they were "close" this year does, but they have so many other areas that need fixing...draft a QB, let him sit behind Orton and learn. This team can be successful with Orton as QB.

 

I really think they need some type of weapon on that offense other than Matt Forte and Greg Olsen. If they don't replace Orton with somebody better, they should find a receiver better than Hester.

 

I wholeheartedly agree on WR. But if Orton really was playing on a gimpy ankle in the second half of the season, I think he deserves another shot at it while we upgrade both lines, and WR.

 

Orton is serviceable, you're right. Upgrades to the o-line and receiver should be enough to hide his flaws.

[rawaction]

Goony brought up a good point. The Bears D scheme is reliant on athletes making big plays with their athletic ability. My question is, is it better to change the scheme with a lot of the same players and maximize their strengths? Or should they maximize the athletic ability again and try to get back to what made them so good a few years ago?

 

I still maintain that the Bears need a defensive heavy draft. I don't know if the Bears can become elite in this offseason, but they can get back to being a playoff team that can win a game or two in the NFC. I think if you can draft a DE and FS (who can play significant roles), and get more development out of Roach, Payne, and Harrison, the Bears defense can come close to elite status again. Offensively, the Bears aren't going to be a juggernaut anytime soon, so that's why I feel it's more important to try to get the defense to that level again. On offense, the Bears can go out and get a veteran RT that will be an improvement over Tait. They can get a WR that will be an improvement over Booker and Davis. They can even get a Jeff Garcia at QB to get an improvement at QB. Those players typically aren't there on defense. If you look at the elite defensive teams in the league (TEN, PIT, BAL, etc) all built their defenses through the draft. All built their "good enough" offenses through free agency. I feel these are all good comparisons because they represent the only way the Bears can get back to the elite level.

 

The Bears haven't brought in the level of defensive talent that made them what they are/were. The young guys that have contributed here and there (Roach, Harrison, Anderson, Payne, and Graham) have all been late draft picks. Regardless of what they have left, the Bears built an elite D by drafting guys like Urlacher, Tillman, Vasher, Harris, and Briggs in the top 1/2 of the draft. In order to get back there, that's what they need to do again. Getting a #1 WR won't help if the QB doesn't have time. Getting a stud OL won't help if the QB can't make good throws/reads. Getting a stud QB won't help if he doesn't have anyone to throw to. Besides, the Bears haven't shown they would even know what to do with elite talent at any of those positions. They have shown they know what to do with great defensive talent, though.

[Wilson A2000]

A healthy Tommie Harris changes everything. When he is on, this is a top-10 defense. I was hoping for more form him this year.

[Banedon]

A healthy Tommie Harris changes everything. When he is on, this is a top-10 defense. I was hoping for more form him this year.

 

Frankly, Tommie pisses me the hell off. He takes a lot of plays/games off. I don't know if he's a lazy person overall, but I think he's a lazy football player a lot of the time. He has his moments without a doubt. This is one of those "perception" things, and completely not proveable, and maybe way off base, but that's the impression I'm getting. Last year and this year, he just seems disinterested.

[Wilson A2000]

A healthy Tommie Harris changes everything. When he is on, this is a top-10 defense. I was hoping for more form him this year.

 

Frankly, Tommie pisses me the hell off. He takes a lot of plays/games off. I don't know if he's a lazy person overall, but I think he's a lazy football player a lot of the time. He has his moments without a doubt. This is one of those "perception" things, and completely not proveable, and maybe way off base, but that's the impression I'm getting. Last year and this year, he just seems disinterested.

 

Maybe, but I gave him the benefit of the doubt that he was injured.

[rawaction]

A healthy Tommie Harris changes everything. When he is on, this is a top-10 defense. I was hoping for more form him this year.

 

Frankly, Tommie pisses me the hell off. He takes a lot of plays/games off. I don't know if he's a lazy person overall, but I think he's a lazy football player a lot of the time. He has his moments without a doubt. This is one of those "perception" things, and completely not proveable, and maybe way off base, but that's the impression I'm getting. Last year and this year, he just seems disinterested.

 

Maybe, but I gave him the benefit of the doubt that he was injured.

 

That's part of the problem too, he's always injured. I don't think Tommie is close to the player anymore that makes the defense that much better. I don't think he'll ever be 100% healthy again, but even if he is, he won't be the player that he was. At this point, you hope that if he's not going to be the best DT in football as he was a couple years ago, that he will still be a top 5-10 player at his position.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

I agree. I really doubt we'll ever see a dominant Harris again.

 

Historically, great offenses tend to have a few years' reign, but great defenses are one year and done. To maintain them, you need a constant flow of new players.

[Derwood]

The Bears can get away with their dink and dunk offense if it sustains drives and wins the TOP battle. The problem this year was that the defense couldn't get off the field, so they weren't winning the field position battle. What I saw was a failure to adjust to the reality of the circumstances; an elite defense who can create 3 and outs and win the field position battle can let you play a vanilla offensive scheme, but when your offense is constantly starting deep in their own zone (and often behind on the scoreboard), things need to get more creative.

 

Orton IS a problem, and one that better receivers won't necessarily fix. Hester is a deep threat and potential game changer but Orton can't hit him in stride. When your only deep threat is rolling the dice on a pass interference call, that's ENTIRELY on the QB. I just hope the Bears will have a franchise QB in my lifetime, as they haven't had one yet.

[imb]

A healthy Tommie Harris changes everything. When he is on, this is a top-10 defense. I was hoping for more form him this year.

 

Frankly, Tommie pisses me the hell off. He takes a lot of plays/games off. I don't know if he's a lazy person overall, but I think he's a lazy football player a lot of the time. He has his moments without a doubt. This is one of those "perception" things, and completely not proveable, and maybe way off base, but that's the impression I'm getting. Last year and this year, he just seems disinterested.

 

obviously i haven't gotten to see him play much since his OU days, but that was the knock against him when he was here too. I never knew how much of it was just old white guys complaining about a young black guy at a position where effort can be hard to quantify.

[Banedon]

The Bears can get away with their dink and dunk offense if it sustains drives and wins the TOP battle. The problem this year was that the defense couldn't get off the field, so they weren't winning the field position battle. What I saw was a failure to adjust to the reality of the circumstances; an elite defense who can create 3 and outs and win the field position battle can let you play a vanilla offensive scheme, but when your offense is constantly starting deep in their own zone (and often behind on the scoreboard), things need to get more creative.

 

Orton IS a problem, and one that better receivers won't necessarily fix. Hester is a deep threat and potential game changer but Orton can't hit him in stride. When your only deep threat is rolling the dice on a pass interference call, that's ENTIRELY on the QB. I just hope the Bears will have a franchise QB in my lifetime, as they haven't had one yet.

 

It's hard to hit the deep pass with a bum ankle that you can get a full push off of. I'll grant you that it's one of Orton's weaknesses, but if you get some other threats out there, then Hester going deep can open up some other WR's for passes. We knew from the start that Orton wasn't a big yardage, bomb it deep guy. That's why Rex got so many chances. But you can still win with that...fix what's around him first.

 

I think Miami is a good way to see how to "fix" things. Fix the line first, and build from there. Pennington is no great QB...but he's able to get the job done because he has solid parts around him.

[Wilson A2000]

I never knew how much of it was just old white guys complaining about a young black guy at a position where effort can be hard to quantify.

 

Well now every race is complaining. The Bears spent a fortune on their defense (more money as a % of team payroll is allocated toward their defense than any other tam other than the Ravens) and they have nothing to show for it.

Edited December 29, 2008 by Wilson A2000

[jersey cubs fan]

Goony brought up a good point. The Bears D scheme is reliant on athletes making big plays with their athletic ability. My question is, is it better to change the scheme with a lot of the same players and maximize their strengths? Or should they maximize the athletic ability again and try to get back to what made them so good a few years ago?

 

I still maintain that the Bears need a defensive heavy draft. I don't know if the Bears can become elite in this offseason, but they can get back to being a playoff team that can win a game or two in the NFC. I think if you can draft a DE and FS (who can play significant roles), and get more development out of Roach, Payne, and Harrison, the Bears defense can come close to elite status again. Offensively, the Bears aren't going to be a juggernaut anytime soon, so that's why I feel it's more important to try to get the defense to that level again. On offense, the Bears can go out and get a veteran RT that will be an improvement over Tait. They can get a WR that will be an improvement over Booker and Davis. They can even get a Jeff Garcia at QB to get an improvement at QB. Those players typically aren't there on defense. If you look at the elite defensive teams in the league (TEN, PIT, BAL, etc) all built their defenses through the draft. All built their "good enough" offenses through free agency. I feel these are all good comparisons because they represent the only way the Bears can get back to the elite level.

 

The Bears haven't brought in the level of defensive talent that made them what they are/were. The young guys that have contributed here and there (Roach, Harrison, Anderson, Payne, and Graham) have all been late draft picks. Regardless of what they have left, the Bears built an elite D by drafting guys like Urlacher, Tillman, Vasher, Harris, and Briggs in the top 1/2 of the draft. In order to get back there, that's what they need to do again. Getting a #1 WR won't help if the QB doesn't have time. Getting a stud OL won't help if the QB can't make good throws/reads. Getting a stud QB won't help if he doesn't have anyone to throw to. Besides, the Bears haven't shown they would even know what to do with elite talent at any of those positions. They have shown they know what to do with great defensive talent, though.

 

I think a stud olineman added to this team would make enough of a difference in the running (more and bigger holes) and passing game (more time) to be a huge net improvement to be worth the pick, but in general, I agree with your sentiment. They need to restock this defense with fresh meat.

[Banedon]

A healthy Tommie Harris changes everything. When he is on, this is a top-10 defense. I was hoping for more form him this year.

 

Frankly, Tommie pisses me the hell off. He takes a lot of plays/games off. I don't know if he's a lazy person overall, but I think he's a lazy football player a lot of the time. He has his moments without a doubt. This is one of those "perception" things, and completely not proveable, and maybe way off base, but that's the impression I'm getting. Last year and this year, he just seems disinterested.

 

obviously i haven't gotten to see him play much since his OU days, but that was the knock against him when he was here too. I never knew how much of it was just old white guys complaining about a young black guy at a position where effort can be hard to quantify.

 

It seems like there was a lot of that early in his Bears career, but there was a couple year span there where he just got it, and was a monster. Then these last couple years, partly due to injury probably, it's just...meh. A couple of shining moments, but nothing that makes opponents fear lining up against him.

 

Again...completely speculative.

[jersey cubs fan]

The Bears can get away with their dink and dunk offense if it sustains drives and wins the TOP battle. The problem this year was that the defense couldn't get off the field, so they weren't winning the field position battle. What I saw was a failure to adjust to the reality of the circumstances; an elite defense who can create 3 and outs and win the field position battle can let you play a vanilla offensive scheme, but when your offense is constantly starting deep in their own zone (and often behind on the scoreboard), things need to get more creative.

 

Orton IS a problem, and one that better receivers won't necessarily fix. Hester is a deep threat and potential game changer but Orton can't hit him in stride. When your only deep threat is rolling the dice on a pass interference call, that's ENTIRELY on the QB. I just hope the Bears will have a franchise QB in my lifetime, as they haven't had one yet.

 

It's hard to hit the deep pass with a bum ankle that you can get a full push off of. I'll grant you that it's one of Orton's weaknesses, but if you get some other threats out there, then Hester going deep can open up some other WR's for passes. We knew from the start that Orton wasn't a big yardage, bomb it deep guy. That's why Rex got so many chances. But you can still win with that...fix what's around him first.

 

I think Miami is a good way to see how to "fix" things. Fix the line first, and build from there. Pennington is no great QB...but he's able to get the job done because he has solid parts around him.

 

This is the key for me. It doesn't matter who your QB is or what receivers you bring in until you have a good offensive line. An offense with mediocre skill players can still be effective with a great line. The Bears have shown next to no ability to find and develop those skills players so I'd much rather have the line making those guys look good than spend the time and money on finding those guys and not having the line to have them productive.

 

The Bears went several years ignoring the line. Taking Williams last year was not the final solution. It's a 5 position group with needs for at least 2 guys as insurance ready to step in. What they have is not good enough and it's just going to keep getting worse as Kreutz and Tait age.

[rawaction]

The Bears can get away with their dink and dunk offense if it sustains drives and wins the TOP battle. The problem this year was that the defense couldn't get off the field, so they weren't winning the field position battle. What I saw was a failure to adjust to the reality of the circumstances; an elite defense who can create 3 and outs and win the field position battle can let you play a vanilla offensive scheme, but when your offense is constantly starting deep in their own zone (and often behind on the scoreboard), things need to get more creative.

 

Orton IS a problem, and one that better receivers won't necessarily fix. Hester is a deep threat and potential game changer but Orton can't hit him in stride. When your only deep threat is rolling the dice on a pass interference call, that's ENTIRELY on the QB. I just hope the Bears will have a franchise QB in my lifetime, as they haven't had one yet.

 

It's hard to hit the deep pass with a bum ankle that you can get a full push off of. I'll grant you that it's one of Orton's weaknesses, but if you get some other threats out there, then Hester going deep can open up some other WR's for passes. We knew from the start that Orton wasn't a big yardage, bomb it deep guy. That's why Rex got so many chances. But you can still win with that...fix what's around him first.

 

I think Miami is a good way to see how to "fix" things. Fix the line first, and build from there. Pennington is no great QB...but he's able to get the job done because he has solid parts around him.

 

The thing w/ Pennington though is that he doesn't make mistakes. You can't have severe limitations in your game AND make poor reads and throws on top of it. I think Orton will get it with experience, though, if allowed. After all, you saw guys like Pennington, Testeverde, Dilfer, and Collins all have success after some pretty crappy early seasons. The question is how long do you wait? None of the above had the success with their original teams.

[Banedon]

The thing w/ Pennington though is that he doesn't make mistakes. You can't have severe limitations in your game AND make poor reads and throws on top of it. I think Orton will get it with experience, though, if allowed. After all, you saw guys like Pennington, Testeverde, Dilfer, and Collins all have success after some pretty crappy early seasons. The question is how long do you wait? None of the above had the success with their original teams.

 

Orton started off not making mistakes this year, and had some really nice showings during that run. After the injury, I think he couldn't do some of the things he wanted to do, got frustrated, and went outside what he normally does. I think that's probably why he didn't take off running on that one play late on Sunday.

 

Fix the line, and lets see what this O can do. The line is so unglamorous, but so important.

[jersey cubs fan]

A healthy Tommie Harris changes everything. When he is on, this is a top-10 defense. I was hoping for more form him this year.

 

Frankly, Tommie pisses me the hell off. He takes a lot of plays/games off. I don't know if he's a lazy person overall, but I think he's a lazy football player a lot of the time. He has his moments without a doubt. This is one of those "perception" things, and completely not proveable, and maybe way off base, but that's the impression I'm getting. Last year and this year, he just seems disinterested.

 

obviously i haven't gotten to see him play much since his OU days, but that was the knock against him when he was here too. I never knew how much of it was just old white guys complaining about a young black guy at a position where effort can be hard to quantify.

 

It seems like there was a lot of that early in his Bears career, but there was a couple year span there where he just got it, and was a monster. Then these last couple years, partly due to injury probably, it's just...meh. A couple of shining moments, but nothing that makes opponents fear lining up against him.

 

Again...completely speculative.

 

I don't even know if effort has anything to do with it, but the injuries have clearly taken him down a notch or three. There's also a fairly strong chance he's mentally unstable.

[jersey cubs fan]

The thing w/ Pennington though is that he doesn't make mistakes. You can't have severe limitations in your game AND make poor reads and throws on top of it. I think Orton will get it with experience, though, if allowed. After all, you saw guys like Pennington, Testeverde, Dilfer, and Collins all have success after some pretty crappy early seasons. The question is how long do you wait? None of the above had the success with their original teams.

 

Pennington had success with his original team, at least as much as he's had so far this year.

[rawaction]

The Bears can get away with their dink and dunk offense if it sustains drives and wins the TOP battle. The problem this year was that the defense couldn't get off the field, so they weren't winning the field position battle. What I saw was a failure to adjust to the reality of the circumstances; an elite defense who can create 3 and outs and win the field position battle can let you play a vanilla offensive scheme, but when your offense is constantly starting deep in their own zone (and often behind on the scoreboard), things need to get more creative.

 

Orton IS a problem, and one that better receivers won't necessarily fix. Hester is a deep threat and potential game changer but Orton can't hit him in stride. When your only deep threat is rolling the dice on a pass interference call, that's ENTIRELY on the QB. I just hope the Bears will have a franchise QB in my lifetime, as they haven't had one yet.

 

It's hard to hit the deep pass with a bum ankle that you can get a full push off of. I'll grant you that it's one of Orton's weaknesses, but if you get some other threats out there, then Hester going deep can open up some other WR's for passes. We knew from the start that Orton wasn't a big yardage, bomb it deep guy. That's why Rex got so many chances. But you can still win with that...fix what's around him first.

 

I think Miami is a good way to see how to "fix" things. Fix the line first, and build from there. Pennington is no great QB...but he's able to get the job done because he has solid parts around him.

 

This is the key for me. It doesn't matter who your QB is or what receivers you bring in until you have a good offensive line. An offense with mediocre skill players can still be effective with a great line. The Bears have shown next to no ability to find and develop those skills players so I'd much rather have the line making those guys look good than spend the time and money on finding those guys and not having the line to have them productive.

 

The Bears went several years ignoring the line. Taking Williams last year was not the final solution. It's a 5 position group with needs for at least 2 guys as insurance ready to step in. What they have is not good enough and it's just going to keep getting worse as Kreutz and Tait age.

 

Definitely. However, I'm starting to think that signing a FA every couple years may be the way to go. If Williams works out and Beekman is good enough, the left side of the line is fine. You can plug in a John Tait like, early 30s lineman on the right side and get some success there. Then you can draft a RG/RT or center in the middle rounds and be fine.

[rawaction]

The thing w/ Pennington though is that he doesn't make mistakes. You can't have severe limitations in your game AND make poor reads and throws on top of it. I think Orton will get it with experience, though, if allowed. After all, you saw guys like Pennington, Testeverde, Dilfer, and Collins all have success after some pretty crappy early seasons. The question is how long do you wait? None of the above had the success with their original teams.

 

Pennington had success with his original team, at least as much as he's had so far this year.

 

True. I guess I was looking more at the latter 3 names when I said that.

[Sosa21MVP]

I think people are too quick to blame Orton's late season struggles on the injured ankle. Sure, that does not help but he was making some questionable throws and missing on some deep balls before he got hurt. The Carolina game in particular stands out in my mind.....he could have easily thrown at least 4 picks in that game including a couple pick 6's but the Panthers defenders had brick hands. He also missed a wide open Booker deep on a play that could have won the game for the Bears.

 

Having said all that, yes Kyle is "serviceable" until something better comes along.

 

Also regarding Tommie Harris, I'll dig for a link later on but there was a medical report from when he was drafted that stated he had the body of a 35 year old man at the time. Which is to say, his body wasn't in the greatest shape even as a rookie and it makes sense when you look at how much he has been injured in his career already.