Week 16: Packers @ Bears, MNF on ESPN (7:30 CT)

[BigbadB]

The only things that really annoyed me from last night were the Bears punting from the Packer 33 yard line in the first quarter, and Lovie wasting yet another challenge on an obvious inconclusive play.

 

What about the horrible waste of a timeout towad the end. They were indecicive about going for it, then tried to change personel, then had to take a timeout when the play clock ran out. It was a sign of a poorly coached team, which the Bears are.

I thought that was a GB timeout before the FG at the end. Or am I thinking of a different play?

 

I could be wrong, but I think Goony is referring to the 4th down play that the Bears called time out.

[Careless]

Thanks for not getting the kick above the heads of the linemen Crosby. The garbage horse collar didn't hurt either.

 

Congrats Bears on your 2008 NFC North Division title. It's over.

 

i wouldn't count out a complete choke job next week at Houston

 

No way. I've seen this movie too many times.

 

Vikings have a chance to wrap it up at home and fumble it away 4 times. Bears need everything to go right, can't do anything on offense but get the usual huge special teams plays, some breaks and pull out close wins.

 

It's over

 

zygi would just file some sort of an injunction to get the vikings into the playoffs.

 

Said injuction would just get tipped, bounce off the league office and into Halas Hall.

 

please. everything has gone right for the queens this year. then their two star defensive players get caught using a masking agent and a minnesota judge overrules the league.

 

if there's any justice, minny will lose, bears will win, and the fat williamses will have to sit out the first 4 games of next year.

 

Yeah just like in the first Bears game when you had (another) punt bounce directly into a man on the return team, our punter inexplicably dropped a perfect snap and of course another tipped ball interception.

Or last week when we control the game but fumble 4 times (recovering 0 because those are typical odds) and watch Ryan fumble it into the end zone and go through 3 guys for a touchdown.

.

The Vikings fumbled 7 times, not 4. They recovered three of them.

[jersey cubs fan]

The only things that really annoyed me from last night were the Bears punting from the Packer 33 yard line in the first quarter, and Lovie wasting yet another challenge on an obvious inconclusive play.

 

What about the horrible waste of a timeout towad the end. They were indecicive about going for it, then tried to change personel, then had to take a timeout when the play clock ran out. It was a sign of a poorly coached team, which the Bears are.

I thought that was a GB timeout before the FG at the end. Or am I thinking of a different play?

 

I could be wrong, but I think Goony is referring to the 4th down play that the Bears called time out.

 

Yeah, they had a couple nice gains to the outside, then ran a bunch of short yardage junk up the middle. And when they came up short on 3rd down they acted as if they had no idea there was a chance they might have to call a 4th down play. It was a wasted TO that could have been vital if GB actually hit their chip shot FG. They could/should have called a TO before the 2 minute warning and right after, which would have left them with 1:30 to comeback if necessary. You have to be prepared to run out short yardage offense in that situation.

[jersey cubs fan]

When your running down the field and see it bounce awkwardly and think it might have hit the guy and it was flying toward the end zone....I think...no I know you would have thought it hit him to and have been a live ball...Don't act like it was dumb of the gunners to try to sweep the ball up for a score

 

I'm not acting like anything, it was dumb. You don't make plays based on what you thought might have happened. You make the right play. Down it at the 1 and it's either Bears ball on 1 or Packers ball on 1. There was no indication it was a live ball, no ref called the fumble (something they will do and players will notice) and there was no good reason to run that into the end zone.

 

You've obviously not played football then...because when people think there's a live ball they go for the ball. In that situation about 99% of players would have gone for the touchdown and not tried to score on it. When your sprinting down the field and there is a possible live ball your not going to look over to the ref and then back to the ball to make sure it's live

 

Yeah, okay. If you watch the play, pretty much every player acts like a special teamer is supposed to act, positioning themselves to down the ball, except for the new guy, Jones. He's the only one that sprinted into the end zone because he doesn't know what he's doing on special teams.

[jersey cubs fan]

The only things that really annoyed me from last night were the Bears punting from the Packer 33 yard line in the first quarter, and Lovie wasting yet another challenge on an obvious inconclusive play.

 

What about the horrible waste of a timeout towad the end. They were indecicive about going for it, then tried to change personel, then had to take a timeout when the play clock ran out. It was a sign of a poorly coached team, which the Bears are.

 

I thought that entire drive wasted too much time. Very poor clock management. In my mind, they had to either score on 4 plays or pin the Packers back and force a punt, while still having enough time left on the clock to make one last effort to get in. They got lucky and got into the endzone (they just barely got the first down, although I think if it was short, replay would have still given the Bears a first down), but if they didn't, I'm not sure they would have had enough time to stop the Packers for 3 plays and still have enough time for one more drive.

 

I think the yellow line was the problem on that 4th down play for TV viewers. It didn't look like he reached the line, and the spot was even more short of the line, but the actual first down markers were a good 10 inches shy of the yellow line.

[kujay]

The only things that really annoyed me from last night were the Bears punting from the Packer 33 yard line in the first quarter, and Lovie wasting yet another challenge on an obvious inconclusive play.

 

What about the horrible waste of a timeout towad the end. They were indecicive about going for it, then tried to change personel, then had to take a timeout when the play clock ran out. It was a sign of a poorly coached team, which the Bears are.

 

I thought that entire drive wasted too much time. Very poor clock management. In my mind, they had to either score on 4 plays or pin the Packers back and force a punt, while still having enough time left on the clock to make one last effort to get in. They got lucky and got into the endzone (they just barely got the first down, although I think if it was short, replay would have still given the Bears a first down), but if they didn't, I'm not sure they would have had enough time to stop the Packers for 3 plays and still have enough time for one more drive.

 

I think the yellow line was the problem on that 4th down play for TV viewers. It didn't look like he reached the line, and the spot was even more short of the line, but the actual first down markers were a good 10 inches shy of the yellow line.

 

I was jumping up and down when I saw that spot and already yelling for Lovie to challenge it. So yeah, the line was definitely off.

[BigbadB]

I'll certainly admit that this yellow line invention gives me artificial comfort at times.

[brinoch]

I don't think that ball hit the return man and I don't believe how stupid Kevin Jones was for running it into the end zone. The first guy was knocking it back to down it and Jones gives them the ball on the 20. The NFL has to have HD cameras set up on both sides of each goal line and a movable one at each first down marker.

 

I don't think so. If the ball was obviously going to go out at about the 2-yard line, why would the guy knock it back in unless he thought it was a live ball? I think they all thought it was.

 

So what was Jones to do? Unless there was an official making some sort of signal that he could look back and see to indicate the ball didn't touch the punt receiver, he was in a catch-22.

 

It was not a catch 22. You down it at the one. If it did touch the guy, worst thing is Bears ball on the Packers 1. The ball wasn't obviously going out on the 2. It was going toward the corner. It could have hit the pylon but the first man down tapped it backward to prevent that from happening. If an official thought it was a fumble he would have thrown the blue bag and that would have been in front of the players faces.

 

This is absolutely what the coverage guys should have done. If it is a fumble, then you have it at the Packer 1, if not, the Packers have the ball at their 1. Win-win.

[Guest]

Lucky, lucky, lucky. We had no business winning that game. Complete robbery.

 

Flames24rulz is right about Orton, at least in the last few games. He's been bad. Although whoever was criticizing him for not throwing a catchable ball to Hester just wasn't watching the same game. Hester had 2-3 passes hit him in both hands, and with no defenders helping things out, Hester couldn't reel the ball in. Any #1 or #2 receiver should be able to pull in those catches. Greg Olsen sure didn't have any issues with Orton's passes. Olsen is really turning into a stud receiving TE.

 

1 of those was whistled behind his head while he was running fast in the opposite direction and another hit his hands only after he had to stop running and wait for the ball, giving the defenders time to also get their hands on the ball. If you expect Hester to be a jump ball phenom like Moss and Burress, you are being unrealistic. Hester is the type of receiver a QB has to lead or hit in stride. He's the only Bears receiver capable of getting consistent seperation, not counting the tight ends. Olsen didn't have problems with Orton's passes because they were lobbed into the flat. That type of pass does not require a ton of accuracy, they are easy to make, and easy to catch.

 

Do you remember a time when Hester made a semi-difficult catch? I'm not asking for him to make catches like the one handed blind catch that Booker made earlier this year, but the one that Orton shorted was still right in his hands, even though he had to slow up and turn around. If he's going to be a WR, I just want to see him make some medium difficulty catches.

 

Yes, he's made a few because Orton rarely hits him in stride. He's an inexperienced developing WR. His lack of fancy catches is much less of a problem than the QB's lack of an ability to throw him a good ball.

 

I'm not giving Orton a pass by any means, but I'm not giving Hester one either. He has yet to show me that he can be much more than a very "meh" WR.

 

Really? He's made great strides in his first year actually receiving. He looks like he could be a good #2 receiver real soon.

[Banedon]

I'm not giving Orton a pass by any means, but I'm not giving Hester one either. He has yet to show me that he can be much more than a very "meh" WR.

 

Really? He's made great strides in his first year actually receiving. He looks like he could be a good #2 receiver real soon.

 

I think he's greatly improved his route running. I just question his hands.

[jersey cubs fan]

Really? He's made great strides in his first year actually receiving. He looks like he could be a good #2 receiver real soon.

 

I've been satisfied with his progress. It was unrealistic to expect much more. You've got a mediocre QB, a line that gives that QB no time and no other threats at receiver. Put Hester on a team with a decent passing game and he'd be an excellent weapon.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

Really? He's made great strides in his first year actually receiving. He looks like he could be a good #2 receiver real soon.

 

I've been satisfied with his progress. It was unrealistic to expect much more. You've got a mediocre QB, a line that gives that QB no time and no other threats at receiver. Put Hester on a team with a decent passing game and he'd be an excellent weapon.

 

He already was an excellent weapon, and we ruined it.

[kujay]

Really? He's made great strides in his first year actually receiving. He looks like he could be a good #2 receiver real soon.

 

I've been satisfied with his progress. It was unrealistic to expect much more. You've got a mediocre QB, a line that gives that QB no time and no other threats at receiver. Put Hester on a team with a decent passing game and he'd be an excellent weapon.

 

Maybe this is overly harsh, but I'm not sure Hester is smart enough to play WR. Returning punts is relatively simple on the brain. Run through the hole. Then run faster.

 

We know Hester isn't exactly a brain surgeon. I just get uncomfortable having dumb players on the field.

[jersey cubs fan]

Really? He's made great strides in his first year actually receiving. He looks like he could be a good #2 receiver real soon.

 

I've been satisfied with his progress. It was unrealistic to expect much more. You've got a mediocre QB, a line that gives that QB no time and no other threats at receiver. Put Hester on a team with a decent passing game and he'd be an excellent weapon.

 

He already was an excellent weapon, and we ruined it.

 

I think nature was going to ruin that anyway. Hester was never going to last as a strictly return man weapon. It just doesn't happen.

[jersey cubs fan]

Really? He's made great strides in his first year actually receiving. He looks like he could be a good #2 receiver real soon.

 

I've been satisfied with his progress. It was unrealistic to expect much more. You've got a mediocre QB, a line that gives that QB no time and no other threats at receiver. Put Hester on a team with a decent passing game and he'd be an excellent weapon.

 

Maybe this is overly harsh, but I'm not sure Hester is smart enough to play WR. Returning punts is relatively simple on the brain. Run through the hole. Then run faster.

 

We know Hester isn't exactly a brain surgeon. I just get uncomfortable having dumb players on the field.

 

There's room in an NFL offense for dumb receivers. Guys like Jerry Rice are few and far between, combining smarts, toughness and physical ability. Hester is a pretty tough little guy with very good physical ability. His hands are not great, but as long as there are other weapons, I think he's smart enough for the position. Every Super Bowl winner has had their fair share of dummies.

[Guest]

Really? He's made great strides in his first year actually receiving. He looks like he could be a good #2 receiver real soon.

 

I've been satisfied with his progress. It was unrealistic to expect much more. You've got a mediocre QB, a line that gives that QB no time and no other threats at receiver. Put Hester on a team with a decent passing game and he'd be an excellent weapon.

 

Maybe this is overly harsh, but I'm not sure Hester is smart enough to play WR. Returning punts is relatively simple on the brain. Run through the hole. Then run faster.

 

We know Hester isn't exactly a brain surgeon. I just get uncomfortable having dumb players on the field.

 

Then every NFL team would field fewer than 11 players on any given play.

[Guest]

Really? He's made great strides in his first year actually receiving. He looks like he could be a good #2 receiver real soon.

 

I've been satisfied with his progress. It was unrealistic to expect much more. You've got a mediocre QB, a line that gives that QB no time and no other threats at receiver. Put Hester on a team with a decent passing game and he'd be an excellent weapon.

 

He already was an excellent weapon, and we ruined it.

 

I think nature was going to ruin that anyway. Hester was never going to last as a strictly return man weapon. It just doesn't happen.

 

Agreed. I don't have a problem with having Hester convert to a position he'd be on the field more often form, especially now with Danielle Manning turning into an effective return man.

[brinoch]

I think Hester coupled with a true #1 receiver would be excellent. This offense isn't that far from being above average. Hester, Forte and Olsen are all nice offensive weapons. Look, I don't like Orton, but even I think that when he has a little more time in the pocket, he's decent. So we need to upgrade the line.

 

Offense

1. #1 WR

2. Get a RG to replace Garza, making the line Williams-Beekman-Kreutz-New Guy-Tait. A lot more impressive.

 

Defense

1. D-Line

2. Safety

3. LB

 

Much as I might rage on Tillman, he is a good CB. Vasher's not as good, and neither is Graham, but they are basically fine. Need help with the safeties. Mike Brown is a beast against the run, but isn't that great in coverage. The D-line is old and really needs a premier pass rusher, definitely an end and maybe a DT if they go away from Dvoracek. Frankly, the defense works best if they are getting pressure on the QB. I'd retool however I needed to ensure that I brought in consistent pressure guys. For the record, I also think that a serious D-Line addition which draws double teams would make Tommie Harris look awesome again.

[GoCubsGo1679625768]

Corey Graham just might be the best corner on this roster at the moment. At the very least he is head and shoulders above Vasher.

 

There have been two major events that have obviously led to a improved defense the last part of this season. Dvorcekz(sp) injury and the insertion of Anthony Adams into the lineup. Sorry, Dusty was getting his arse handed to him this season, and the injury to Vasher and insertion of Graham who is much more physical and is better in coverage.

Edited December 23, 2008 by GoCubsGo!!

[Guest]

I think Hester coupled with a true #1 receiver would be excellent. This offense isn't that far from being above average. Hester, Forte and Olsen are all nice offensive weapons. Look, I don't like Orton, but even I think that when he has a little more time in the pocket, he's decent. So we need to upgrade the line.

 

Offense

1. #1 WR

2. Get a RG to replace Garza, making the line Williams-Beekman-Kreutz-New Guy-Tait. A lot more impressive.

 

Defense

1. D-Line

2. Safety

3. LB

 

Much as I might rage on Tillman, he is a good CB. Vasher's not as good, and neither is Graham, but they are basically fine. Need help with the safeties. Mike Brown is a beast against the run, but isn't that great in coverage. The D-line is old and really needs a premier pass rusher, definitely an end and maybe a DT if they go away from Dvoracek. Frankly, the defense works best if they are getting pressure on the QB. I'd retool however I needed to ensure that I brought in consistent pressure guys. For the record, I also think that a serious D-Line addition which draws double teams would make Tommie Harris look awesome again.

 

Tait will need to be replaced and replaced soon. But replacing Garza is a bigger priority.

 

Given the weakness on the D-Line, they better bring back Dusty even if his health is questionable. He's one of the key reasons the run defense performed as well as it did earlier in the season. I maintain that Harrison should progress into a really good DT.

 

A pass rushing defense end would do wonders for this defense.

[Old Style]

The Bears need to sign a top flight FA WR (not an overrated Bernard Berrian type) and then draft another one in the first round (Michael Crabtree, Jeremy Maclin, etc.). Hester should not be counted on as more than a #3. The OLine needs to be strenghtened and a legitimate backup for Forte is needed. Give Orton some help and I think he will be an excellent QB for the Bears. I doubt he will ever be a Pro Bowler, but that's not necessarily needed for the Bears to be a great team.

[jersey cubs fan]

The Bears need to sign a top flight FA WR (not an overrated Bernard Berrian type) and then draft another one in the first round (Michael Crabtree, Jeremy Maclin, etc.). Hester should not be counted on as more than a #3. The OLine needs to be strenghtened and a legitimate backup for Forte is needed. Give Orton some help and I think he will be an excellent QB for the Bears. I doubt he will ever be a Pro Bowler, but that's not necessarily needed for the Bears to be a great team.

 

I would draft offensive line in the first before I'd go WR. And I don't think Orton will ever be excellent, but I think he can be okay. I'd draft QB in the middle rounds this year and next.

 

They definitely need an upgrade to Peterson for the backup RB, Forte needs to touch the ball a heck of a lot less next season.

[Guest]

The Bears need to sign a top flight FA WR (not an overrated Bernard Berrian type) and then draft another one in the first round (Michael Crabtree, Jeremy Maclin, etc.). Hester should not be counted on as more than a #3. The OLine needs to be strenghtened and a legitimate backup for Forte is needed. Give Orton some help and I think he will be an excellent QB for the Bears. I doubt he will ever be a Pro Bowler, but that's not necessarily needed for the Bears to be a great team.

 

Crabtree will be gone before the Bears pick, he's a top 10 pick.

 

I agree that OL and WR need to be addressed but you can't ignore defense in the draft, especially when there are 2 glaring weaknesses on the defense (DE and S), the defense is continuing to age and you spent the first two picks in the previous draft on offense.

[GoCubsGo1679625768]

What are everyone's thoughts on the Bears going after TJ Housh this offseason? I'd be all for it. The numbers he put up this season are pretty amazing considering he had a worst supporting cast on offense than the Bears. He is a bit old for my liking, but definetly someone I can see stablizing the position for a while.

[Outshined_One]

What are everyone's thoughts on the Bears going after TJ Housh this offseason? I'd be all for it. The numbers he put up this season are pretty amazing considering he had a worst supporting cast on offense than the Bears. He is a bit old for my liking, but definetly someone I can see stablizing the position for a while.

 

I like him, but I get the feeling the Bears will over-pay him and he'll have a subsequent dropoff with this team.