Re: Peavy High on Cubs Wish List

[Clem Fandango]

He also makes it sound as if they're going to trade Theriot if they're going ot give him shots at SS. That and the "what we do or don't do" line kind of makes it painfully obvious what they might be seeking out to do

[Transmogrified Tiger]

He also makes it sound as if they're going to trade Theriot if they're going ot give him shots at SS. That and the "what we do or don't do" line kind of makes it painfully obvious what they might be seeking out to do

 

I think that's referring more to how they handle RF than anything else. If they don't get an upgrade, DeRosa stands to play there quite a bit, freeing up more time for Fontenot at 2B. If they land someone like Hermida or Bradley, then Fontenot would need to take some reps at SS in order to get similar or increased playing time.

[cubsfan26]

He also makes it sound as if they're going to trade Theriot if they're going ot give him shots at SS. That and the "what we do or don't do" line kind of makes it painfully obvious what they might be seeking out to do

 

I think that's referring more to how they handle RF than anything else. If they don't get an upgrade, DeRosa stands to play there quite a bit, freeing up more time for Fontenot at 2B. If they land someone like Hermida or Bradley, then Fontenot would need to take some reps at SS in order to get similar or increased playing time.

 

 

 

Yeah it makes sense, if the Cubs get a good RF who plays alot. That means DeRosa is going to get alot less starts in RF, and he will end up at 2b alot. So if we wanna get Fontenot AB's he's probably gonna have to do it between 2b and SS. I'm sure DeRosa and Theriot will still end up with around 500 AB's, but a guy like Cedeno could get even less AB's. Which could be a sign that Cedeno will be traded, and we could add veteran shortstop for defense.

[Jehrico]

Okay, no one in the world was saying Bobby Hill for Aramis Ramirez was a bad idea. No one.

 

oh yeah they did

 

Yes, I can vouch for this. The Ramirez/Lofton trade was met with a lot of mixed emotions and the overall tone at the time was negative.

 

The Lofton part of the trade excited me at the time.

 

I sure don't remember any mixed emotions. It seems to me that everyone (including the writers) thought that the Cubs were the big winners in the deal.

 

I'm just talking about the reaction here on NSBB. I distinctly recall more than a little negative reaction here. I was surprised because I considered it a pretty good deal at the time.

 

What I remember most was some guy in one of the power rankings saying "the Cubs will find Ramirez and Lofton aren't enough, and will fade out of the race" or something like that. Which was pretty funny when we began our run and won the division.

They weren't. We won the division because the mighty Randall Simon put us on his back and carried us into the postseason. :good:

[PrimeTime]

Awesome, now we have to rely on Marquis again and we know Harden will miss a ton of starts so its going to be another mess in the rotation..Im really not liking what I'm seeing so far this offseason..

[UK1679666180]

Okay, no one in the world was saying Bobby Hill for Aramis Ramirez was a bad idea. No one.

 

oh yeah they did

 

Yes, I can vouch for this. The Ramirez/Lofton trade was met with a lot of mixed emotions and the overall tone at the time was negative.

 

The Lofton part of the trade excited me at the time.

 

I sure don't remember any mixed emotions. It seems to me that everyone (including the writers) thought that the Cubs were the big winners in the deal.

 

This is right. Everyone thought the Cubs got a good deal, but some were simultaneously upset at what had become of the 2B situation(Hill never getting a legitimate shot). No one thought "I can't believe we're giving up Bobby Hill for just Ramirez and Lofton".

 

I remember when Kelton, Montanez, Hill, and Choi were the "Infield of the Future"

 

I thought the trade itself was fine, the Cubs were getting someone undervalued with Ramirez who had shown prior success before an ankle injury led him to a bad year. Ramirez was still young, productive, and cheap for his production (even though that production isn't where it is now).

 

My concern was in the potential shift of philosophy, going from a team trying to win for the next 5 years to a team trying to win it this year. This involves them trading prospects for spare parts like we seen in '98 and allocating more towards major league free agents rather than the draft and international FAs. Whether it was by accident or not due to the Cubs firing Leon Lee, the regression of the farm system had to with a lack of international free agents and bad draft picks rather than drafting top 10s as they did in '98, '00, '01, '03, and '07.

 

I am encouraged by their recent involvement in the Pacific Rim.

 

I didn't think they were complete enough on offense to really compete but it turns out that given the injuries to Wood and Prior that '03 was their best chance.

[RyneDawson]

God I hate Piniella! Shut up, let Hendry manage the team. All we need is "an experienced" reliever?!!? Why not go sign Wil Ohman or Latroy Hawkins then? How bout a good reliever instead of one with experience. I hate the arguments Lou brings up when he says we need "experience" or a "left handed hitter". How bout just a good player? Giving Fontenot some tries at short is actually a good idea. But that still doesn't solve the RF situation. If we're not working on a trade for Peavy then we should be focused on a RF like Dunn or Bradley or someone good and not this Mark Teahen cr*p.

[JeffH]

Shut up, let Hendry manage the team.

 

A worse idea I cannot imagine.

[RyneDawson]

Why? Cuz he actually wants to get good players on this team instead of looking for "experience" or "left-handedness". If it was up to Piniella we would have a bunch of Mark Teahens, Brad Wilkersons, Latroy Hawkins, just cuz they are left handed or experienced. At least Hendry wants to try for guys like Peavy.

[Tyrant]

If it was up to Piniella we would have a bunch of Mark Teahens, Brad Wilkersons, Latroy Hawkins, just cuz they are left handed or experienced.

 

You couldn't be more wrong.

[JeffH]

Why? Cuz he actually wants to get good players on this team instead of looking for "experience" or "left-handedness". If it was up to Piniella we would have a bunch of Mark Teahens, Brad Wilkersons, Latroy Hawkins, just cuz they are left handed or experienced. At least Hendry wants to try for guys like Peavy.

 

Try not to be absurd.

[Vanilla Ice]

Why? Cuz he actually wants to get good players on this team instead of looking for "experience" or "left-handedness". If it was up to Piniella we would have a bunch of Mark Teahens, Brad Wilkersons, Latroy Hawkins, just cuz they are left handed or experienced. At least Hendry wants to try for guys like Peavy.

 

Try not to be absurd.

irony

[Jehrico]

God I hate Piniella! Shut up, let Hendry manage the team. All we need is "an experienced" reliever?!!? Why not go sign Wil Ohman or Latroy Hawkins then? How bout a good reliever instead of one with experience. I hate the arguments Lou brings up when he says we need "experience" or a "left handed hitter". How bout just a good player? Giving Fontenot some tries at short is actually a good idea. But that still doesn't solve the RF situation. If we're not working on a trade for Peavy then we should be focused on a RF like Dunn or Bradley or someone good and not this Mark Teahen cr*p.

You're putting waaaaay too much into an offseason quote from a manager.

[RyneDawson]

How many times did we lose games this year because of Piniella's obsession with matchups? We have Micah Hoffpauir, Edmonds or Fontenot due up... but wait.... the other team brings in a lefty pitcher, oh no I forgot lefty batters can't hit lefty pitchers (even though were obsessed about getting a lefty batter for RF). So lets pinch hit Henry Blanco! Cuz he's a righty! Piniella needs to worry about getting "good" players instead of "experienced or lefty" players.

[laurens]

How many times did we lose games this year because of Piniella's obsession with matchups? We have Micah Hoffpauir, Edmonds or Fontenot due up... but wait.... the other team brings in a lefty pitcher, oh no I forgot lefty batters can't hit lefty pitchers (even though were obsessed about getting a lefty batter for RF). So lets pinch hit Henry Blanco! Cuz he's a righty! Piniella needs to worry about getting "good" players instead of "experienced or lefty" players.

 

You're a bit of a drama queen, aren't you.

[Tyrant]

How many times did we lose games this year because of Piniella's obsession with matchups?

 

I dunno. Once? Twice, maybe?

[Jehrico]

How many times did we lose games this year because of Piniella's obsession with matchups? We have Micah Hoffpauir, Edmonds or Fontenot due up... but wait.... the other team brings in a lefty pitcher, oh no I forgot lefty batters can't hit lefty pitchers (even though were obsessed about getting a lefty batter for RF). So lets pinch hit Henry Blanco! Cuz he's a righty! Piniella needs to worry about getting "good" players instead of "experienced or lefty" players.

Did you follow the team last year? We had the second best record in all of baseball last year, and you're complaining about him costing us games based on matchups? Did you not notice that we were one of the best clubs at winning when not leading after the 6th inning last year? Last I checked, Blanco had a pretty good year with the bat off of the bench. So did just Fontenot. So did Hoffpauir. So did Johnson. So did Edmonds. Hell, even Cedeno didn't do too bad (compared to my expectations). Did all of these guys just happen to peak off of the bench or in part time roles by coincidence? Our bench was extremely productive compared to the rest of the league. That would lead me to believe that Piniella managed the matchups EXTREMELY well last year. You want to complain about Lou costing us games based on lousy managing, but the numbers show the exact opposite of what you're complaining about. It's almost like you didn't know we let Dusty go after 2006, and mistook the Reds for the Cubs this year as a result.

[Jehrico]

How many times did we lose games this year because of Piniella's obsession with matchups?

 

I dunno. Once? Twice, maybe?

 

Less than the number we won after he called the right matchup.

[RyneDawson]

Exactly. Easily once or twice. I would say somewhere around 3-4. But that is still a lot. Just let the better hitter hit, no matter what the matchup is, and we wouldn't lose those 1-2 games. He overthinks way too much sometimes, and then most of the time he doesn't think at all.

[Jehrico]

Exactly. Easily once or twice. I would say somewhere around 3-4. But that is still a lot. Just let the better hitter hit, no matter what the matchup is, and we wouldn't lose those 1-2 games. He overthinks way too much sometimes, and then most of the time he doesn't think at all.

Wrong. Absolutely wrong.

[RyneDawson]

Exactly. Easily once or twice. I would say somewhere around 3-4. But that is still a lot. Just let the better hitter hit, no matter what the matchup is, and we wouldn't lose those 1-2 games. He overthinks way too much sometimes, and then most of the time he doesn't think at all.

Wrong. Absolutely wrong.

 

You think we won all those games cuz of Lou being a great manager? The only thing he had to do was that whenever we had a lead, just put Marmol in to hold them. We won because we had great players. Lou didn't have much to do with it. I could have managed that team and gotten the same amount of victories.

[David]

His overall point is kinda right, though. Lou's fixation with matchups gets a bit absurd at times. In general, I like what Lou does, but, for instance, I'm not at all a fan of the all righty lineups vs lefty starters.

[David]

Exactly. Easily once or twice. I would say somewhere around 3-4. But that is still a lot. Just let the better hitter hit, no matter what the matchup is, and we wouldn't lose those 1-2 games. He overthinks way too much sometimes, and then most of the time he doesn't think at all.

Wrong. Absolutely wrong.

 

You think we won all those games cuz of Lou being a great manager? The only thing he had to do was that whenever we had a lead, just put Marmol in to hold them. We won because we had great players. Lou didn't have much to do with it. I could have managed that team and gotten the same amount of victories.

 

All managers make dumb moves. Lou has his quirks (the all righty lineups vs lefties, the overuse of certain pitchers and just overall odd usage of the bullpen, etc.), but be happy we don't have one of the really bad ones and leave it at that. Having Dusty Baker fresh on the mind, this shouldn't be so hard.

[Jehrico]

Exactly. Easily once or twice. I would say somewhere around 3-4. But that is still a lot. Just let the better hitter hit, no matter what the matchup is, and we wouldn't lose those 1-2 games. He overthinks way too much sometimes, and then most of the time he doesn't think at all.

Wrong. Absolutely wrong.

 

You think we won all those games cuz of Lou being a great manager? The only thing he had to do was that whenever we had a lead, just put Marmol in to hold them. We won because we had great players. Lou didn't have much to do with it. I could have managed that team and gotten the same amount of victories.

There are certainly legitimate issues to criticize Lou over. His use of the bench isn't one of them. No manager is perfect. None of them ever make the right call 100% of the time. The fact is however, the numbers suggest Lou did a better job then just about every other manager in the game last year at managing the bench. Just because you can think of a couple of occasions where his decisions didn't work out doesn't mean you're right. Numbers are numbers, facts are facts, and you're wrong.

[Backtobanks]

Awesome, now we have to rely on Marquis again and we know Harden will miss a ton of starts so its going to be another mess in the rotation..Im really not liking what I'm seeing so far this offseason..

 

Assuming we don't make a deal involving the rotation, how is the 2009 rotation worse than the 2008 rotation that won the NL Central?

 

Zambrano, Harden (part time), Dempster, Lilly, Marquis, + Marshall >>>>>>> Zambrano, Dempster, Lilly, Marquis, Gallagher/Marshall