Rich Hill is done

[DiamondMind]

If you would've phrased it like that, I would've taken to the question differently. It just appeared that you were taking an initial stance opposite of many on this board who happen to really like Hill and hope for him to be back to where he was in '07 (maybe unrealistically) & you wanted just to ruffle some feathers. Of course, I thought you did likewise with your constant and pointless posts updating of Murton getting it handed to him with Oakland.

 

Of course, I'm probably looking too much into it.

 

Well, I did take a minimal stance that of this minute in time, today, I dont see Rich contributing to the Cubs organziation anymore. So are there any other conflicting viewes? Some saying he is a dead horse, some saying one pitch rich can rise from the ashes of VWL to rejoin the Cubs

 

People always argue semantics, especially with sports. Cant be avoided. But I certainly would never try to start arguments. Disucssions, argumemnts...two different things. And thats really why I didn't appreciate TmT's first reply to this thread. Factually devoid of any kind of hard number made arguments, what we got instead , was three lines on a post with zero purpose. I'd delete it, if I could. Pisses me off if the up and ups uses less-posting members threads as test toys or whatever.

[DiamondMind]

If only there was something in Rich Hill's past that showed he would be capable of coming back and being productive at the major league level after being an old for his league basket case who couldn't throw the ball into the ocean.

 

If only.

 

Sarcasm and elitism aside, I already made mention that the only reason I have personally to believe in Rich is the one season. That was kind of my point. Was that one season enough to convince people he can come back at equal or better value, or is he done? It was a simple question, and honestly your response pisses me off. Just really no need for the sarcastic attitude. It doesn't make you look good.

 

If you believe that Rich's '07 is the only sign that he was any good then you're not going to be satisfied with anyone's response.

 

Ok, well, would you be kind enough to give me other reasons? 99% of what I do know bout Rich came from that singular season.

[inari]

If only there was something in Rich Hill's past that showed he would be capable of coming back and being productive at the major league level after being an old for his league basket case who couldn't throw the ball into the ocean.

 

If only.

 

Sarcasm and elitism aside, I already made mention that the only reason I have personally to believe in Rich is the one season. That was kind of my point. Was that one season enough to convince people he can come back at equal or better value, or is he done? It was a simple question, and honestly your response pisses me off. Just really no need for the sarcastic attitude. It doesn't make you look good.

 

If you believe that Rich's '07 is the only sign that he was any good then you're not going to be satisfied with anyone's response.

 

Ok, well, would you be kind enough to give me other reasons? 99% of what I do know bout Rich came from that singular season.

 

Then you're not well enough informed to be having a serious discussion about Rich Hill.

[Ding Dong Johnson]

who's Kurt Russell in this thread?

[DiamondMind]

Maybe its me, but its really humorous that the only replies this thread has received is arguing over if the poster has the credentials to ask the question in the first place. ---Is there a form I need to fill out first?

 

In every single reply, its been sarcasm, debating the meaning of the word elitism, and general combative attitude.

 

So in conclusion, I've learned nothing about Rich. Nothing. I have learned that a select few here are concerned more with thei e-peen than any cubs goings-on.

[DiamondMind]

If only there was something in Rich Hill's past that showed he would be capable of coming back and being productive at the major league level after being an old for his league basket case who couldn't throw the ball into the ocean.

 

If only.

 

Sarcasm and elitism aside, I already made mention that the only reason I have personally to believe in Rich is the one season. That was kind of my point. Was that one season enough to convince people he can come back at equal or better value, or is he done? It was a simple question, and honestly your response pisses me off. Just really no need for the sarcastic attitude. It doesn't make you look good.

 

If you believe that Rich's '07 is the only sign that he was any good then you're not going to be satisfied with anyone's response.

 

Ok, well, would you be kind enough to give me other reasons? 99% of what I do know bout Rich came from that singular season.

 

Then you're not well enough informed to be having a serious discussion about Rich Hill.

 

I know so little about Rich that I spent way too much time researching him on the web last night while bored, than I planned to make a topic today, and did. Hoping for information and opinions from ones smarter than I, I got a bunch of tongue in cheek jokes about who knows what.

 

Isn't this forum better than this? Doesn't anyone talk about the issues? Or do we just let a few posters that Im not going to name LITTER AND CLUSTER EVERY THREAD with inane one liners, petty arguments ,single line stupid soap-dropping jokes..........OR MAYBE when a non-regular has an honest quesion, we could answer it with tact and intelligent. NAHHHHHH

[Transmogrified Tiger]

If only there was something in Rich Hill's past that showed he would be capable of coming back and being productive at the major league level after being an old for his league basket case who couldn't throw the ball into the ocean.

 

If only.

 

Sarcasm and elitism aside, I already made mention that the only reason I have personally to believe in Rich is the one season. That was kind of my point. Was that one season enough to convince people he can come back at equal or better value, or is he done? It was a simple question, and honestly your response pisses me off. Just really no need for the sarcastic attitude. It doesn't make you look good.

 

If you're saying "was that one season enough to convince you", then I don't think you understand what I'm saying. Hill was Rick Vaughn until he somehow flipped the switch mechanically/mentally before 2005. Then he reeled off 525 innings of outstanding pitching over 3 years, including a full season in the major leagues. Now it's obvious that the mechanical/mental block is back. To say his struggles are somehow an indication that he'll never be back is ridiculous when you have Hill's history of simply going from awful to awesome and back again.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

I know so little about Rich that I spent way too much time researching him on the web last night while bored, than I planned to make a topic today, and did. Hoping for information and opinions from ones smarter than I, I got a bunch of tongue in cheek jokes about who knows what.

 

Hoping for information and opinions? Does the following sound like a plea for debate?

 

Rich Hill is Done

 

We really should have the funeral for him, to be polite.

 

He's done, game over.

[imb]

god if there's one thing we need it's another rich hill thread by someone that doesn't know anything about rich hill

[UK1679666180]

If you would've phrased it like that, I would've taken to the question differently. It just appeared that you were taking an initial stance opposite of many on this board who happen to really like Hill and hope for him to be back to where he was in '07 (maybe unrealistically) & you wanted just to ruffle some feathers. Of course, I thought you did likewise with your constant and pointless posts updating of Murton getting it handed to him with Oakland.

 

Of course, I'm probably looking too much into it.

 

Well, I did take a minimal stance that of this minute in time, today, I dont see Rich contributing to the Cubs organziation anymore. So are there any other conflicting viewes? Some saying he is a dead horse, some saying one pitch rich can rise from the ashes of VWL to rejoin the Cubs

 

People always argue semantics, especially with sports. Cant be avoided. But I certainly would never try to start arguments. Disucssions, argumemnts...two different things. And thats really why I didn't appreciate TmT's first reply to this thread. Factually devoid of any kind of hard number made arguments, what we got instead , was three lines on a post with zero purpose. I'd delete it, if I could. Pisses me off if the up and ups uses less-posting members threads as test toys or whatever.

 

There are valid reasons as to why one could expect Hill to come back, we haven't seen him since he was shut down and whether or not his problems are mechanical and only FB related or mental ala Blass. I'd rather see him screwed up mechanically with his FB and still have the same break on his CB. He'll never have great command and control, his delivery will always restrict that, there are too many parts moving and with that shoulder tilt ala Guidry, everything has to be aligned perfectly. Hill was strong before this last outing which indicates more physical (mechanics) than mental, he's worth keeping in the organization even with his "one pitch" although his FB generates plenty of swings and misses given how good his curve is and how well he hides the ball.

 

I'm not counting on him coming back, the Cubs aren't either, but hopefully like the Cubs I wouldn't give up just yet on him given how good he was in '07 with one pitch and poor command.

[fromthestretch]

Why do Rich Hill's detractors always say he just had one good season in the majors and completely ignore the awesome 2nd half he had in 2006?

[Sammy Sofa]

When will it be time for his code red?

[DiamondMind]

god if there's one thing we need it's another rich hill thread by someone that doesn't know anything about rich hill

 

Do we need it more or less than posters like you that contribute nothing other than a childish attitude and some imagined sense that they're actually witty?

 

Seriously IMB, what do you bring to this forum factually? Anything?

 

I want to know what percentage of your 15,000 posts aren't [expletive] one liners. What's the over/under on that?

Edited November 3, 2008 by DiamondMind

[DiamondMind]

Why do Rich Hill's detractors always say he just had one good season in the majors and completely ignore the awesome 2nd half he had in 2006?

 

Because a lot of pitchers can have a good half-season before scouting reports come together.

[DiamondMind]

Does the following sound like a plea for debate?

bla bla bla

 

You know what? You're right. Touche.

 

And thanks for being the singular member in this entire thread thats contributing anything of worth.

[fromthestretch]

Why do Rich Hill's detractors always say he just had one good season in the majors and completely ignore the awesome 2nd half he had in 2006?

 

Because a lot of pitchers can have a good half-season before scouting reports come together.

 

You claimed he had one good year. He actually had a couple very good seasons in the minors and a season and a half's worth of good performance at the major league level. It's not like he magically strung together 32 good starts in 2007 after doing nothing of note prior to that. And the point about scouting reports isn't really relevant here. He was very good in 2006 and was able to still pitch well in 2007. His struggles since then have little (if anything) to do with hitters adjusting. It has to do with his sudden inability to consistently find the strikezone.

[DiamondMind]

Why do Rich Hill's detractors always say he just had one good season in the majors and completely ignore the awesome 2nd half he had in 2006?

 

Because a lot of pitchers can have a good half-season before scouting reports come together.

 

You claimed he had one good year. He actually had a couple very good seasons in the minors and a season and a half's worth of good performance at the major league level. It's not like he magically strung together 32 good starts in 2007 after doing nothing of note prior to that. And the point about scouting reports isn't really relevant here. He was very good in 2006 and was able to still pitch well in 2007. His struggles since then have little (if anything) to do with hitters adjusting. It has to do with his sudden inability to consistently find the strikezone.

 

To be completely honest, that IS what I think Rich's problem is - failure to adjustment. With such a limited pitch repertoire, inconsitant pitch location, and questionable mental makeup on the mound....yea....I think it is failure to adjust.

 

And if you disagree with that, instead of arguing over it, Im just curious - What is your opinion on why he fell apart? We can argue over if he's a good pitcher or not endlessly....but why do you think he suddenly collapsed?

[fromthestretch]

Why do Rich Hill's detractors always say he just had one good season in the majors and completely ignore the awesome 2nd half he had in 2006?

 

Because a lot of pitchers can have a good half-season before scouting reports come together.

 

You claimed he had one good year. He actually had a couple very good seasons in the minors and a season and a half's worth of good performance at the major league level. It's not like he magically strung together 32 good starts in 2007 after doing nothing of note prior to that. And the point about scouting reports isn't really relevant here. He was very good in 2006 and was able to still pitch well in 2007. His struggles since then have little (if anything) to do with hitters adjusting. It has to do with his sudden inability to consistently find the strikezone.

 

To be completely honest, that IS what I think Rich's problem is - failure to adjustment. With such a limited pitch repertoire, inconsitant pitch location, and questionable mental makeup on the mound....yea....I think it is failure to adjust.

 

And if you disagree with that, instead of arguing over it, Im just curious - What is your opinion on why he fell apart? We can argue over if he's a good pitcher or not endlessly....but why do you think he suddenly collapsed?

 

Who knows? It's not my problem to solve, and obviously the folks tasked with figuring it out haven't been able to yet. The bottom line is that he had control problems early in his minor league career. He straightened it out for a couple years at that level and then again at the major league level for about a season and a half. Now it's back, worse than ever. This has nothing to do with scouting reports as you mentioned a couple posts ago. I don't know if his problem is mechanical or mental (possibly a bit of both) or even if he's injured. Whatever is causing it, he's suddenly not able to command his pitches, outside of a single start here and there. That's the big problem here. If you can't command your pitches, you're going to walk a lot of hitters, and when you do throw a strike, there's a good chance it won't be a quality one.

 

As many people have pointed out in this thread, it wouldn't be worth the Cubs just parting ways with him at this point. He'd have little trade value, and he's not exactly eating up a ton of payroll. As long as they don't go into 2009 counting on him to be a fixture in the rotation, that gives them some time to work with him and try to solve this problem. Anything he provides will be a bonus. We've seen that he's capable of being a quality major league starting pitcher. It's worth the effort to find out if he can get back to that level of performance.

[Guest]

Why do Rich Hill's detractors always say he just had one good season in the majors and completely ignore the awesome 2nd half he had in 2006?

 

Because a lot of pitchers can have a good half-season before scouting reports come together.

 

You claimed he had one good year. He actually had a couple very good seasons in the minors and a season and a half's worth of good performance at the major league level. It's not like he magically strung together 32 good starts in 2007 after doing nothing of note prior to that. And the point about scouting reports isn't really relevant here. He was very good in 2006 and was able to still pitch well in 2007. His struggles since then have little (if anything) to do with hitters adjusting. It has to do with his sudden inability to consistently find the strikezone.

 

To be completely honest, that IS what I think Rich's problem is - failure to adjustment. With such a limited pitch repertoire, inconsitant pitch location, and questionable mental makeup on the mound....yea....I think it is failure to adjust.

 

And if you disagree with that, instead of arguing over it, Im just curious - What is your opinion on why he fell apart? We can argue over if he's a good pitcher or not endlessly....but why do you think he suddenly collapsed?

 

How can you say his problem is failure to adjust when he has similarly porous control until his breakthrough in 2005 in the minors? He clearly made a major adjustment that helped him from 2005-2007.

 

http://www.thebaseballcube.com/players/H/rich-hill.shtml

[bukie]

Apparently the league adjusted to Hill by....psyching him out into throwing wildly?

[imb]

god if there's one thing we need it's another rich hill thread by someone that doesn't know anything about rich hill

 

Do we need it more or less than posters like you

 

much less

[imb]

And for the record, I doubt we ever see Rich Hill again, either. But we've had this same discussion at least a dozen times and it's always ruined by people calling him a headcase or mentally weak (which he may be) and getting the facts wrong on his career. I mean, his entire pro career is like six years long, it's not like he has a huge case file to absorb.

[abuck1220]

he didn't have time to research farther back than 2007, get off his back.

[hardcorecubfan]

Can he learn to hit and become an outstanding CF? I think I heard of a guy that did this

[rocket]

god if there's one thing we need it's another rich hill thread by someone that doesn't know anything about rich hill

 

Do we need it more or less than posters like you that contribute nothing other than a childish attitude and some imagined sense that they're actually witty?

 

Seriously IMB, what do you bring to this forum factually? Anything?

 

I want to know what percentage of your 15,000 posts aren't [expletive] one liners. What's the over/under on that?

 

some of them are gay one-liners too