Justify why Josh Hamilton should be in the Top 10 in AL MVP

[imb]

you know that part in fight club were edward norton beats the hell out of jared leto and then he just keeps punching and punching and punching until jared leto's all limp and bloody and they have to pull edward norton off him and everyone is just disgusted?

 

sort of off of your point here but edward norton got to bang salma hayek AND kick the crap out of jared leto

 

real american hero imo

 

Swing and a miss.

 

are you saying they never had sex when they were married

 

because that would take a lot of restraint

[Ding Dong Johnson]

you know that part in fight club were edward norton beats the hell out of jared leto and then he just keeps punching and punching and punching until jared leto's all limp and bloody and they have to pull edward norton off him and everyone is just disgusted?

 

sort of off of your point here but edward norton got to bang salma hayek AND kick the crap out of jared leto

 

real american hero imo

 

Swing and a miss.

 

are you saying they never had sex when they were married

 

because that would take a lot of restraint

they dated, but they were never married were they?

[imb]

you know that part in fight club were edward norton beats the hell out of jared leto and then he just keeps punching and punching and punching until jared leto's all limp and bloody and they have to pull edward norton off him and everyone is just disgusted?

 

sort of off of your point here but edward norton got to bang salma hayek AND kick the crap out of jared leto

 

real american hero imo

 

Swing and a miss.

 

are you saying they never had sex when they were married

 

because that would take a lot of restraint

they dated, but they were never married were they?

 

who knows

 

all i know is i would've hit that like ray lewis

 

THE POINT IS HE HAD SEX WITH HER AND RYAN IS WRONG AGAIN

[imb]

BACK ON TOPIC

 

baseballreference.com says

Ballpark: Rangers Ballpark in Arlington

Attendance: 1,945,677 (11th of 14)

Park Factors

(multi-year): Batting - 100, Pitching - 100

(one-year): Batting - 97, Pitching - 98

Over 100 favors batters, under 100 favors pitchers.

 

does that mean what i think it means

[rocket]

BACK ON TOPIC

 

baseballreference.com says

Ballpark: Rangers Ballpark in Arlington

Attendance: 1,945,677 (11th of 14)

Park Factors

(multi-year): Batting - 100, Pitching - 100

(one-year): Batting - 97, Pitching - 98

Over 100 favors batters, under 100 favors pitchers.

 

does that mean what i think it means

 

yes, salma hayek is HOTT

[imb]

BACK ON TOPIC

 

baseballreference.com says

Ballpark: Rangers Ballpark in Arlington

Attendance: 1,945,677 (11th of 14)

Park Factors

(multi-year): Batting - 100, Pitching - 100

(one-year): Batting - 97, Pitching - 98

Over 100 favors batters, under 100 favors pitchers.

 

does that mean what i think it means

 

yes, salma hayek is HOTT

 

Huge Ole TaTas

[SouthSideRyan]

you know that part in fight club were edward norton beats the hell out of jared leto and then he just keeps punching and punching and punching until jared leto's all limp and bloody and they have to pull edward norton off him and everyone is just disgusted?

 

sort of off of your point here but edward norton got to bang salma hayek AND kick the crap out of jared leto

 

real american hero imo

 

Swing and a miss.

 

are you saying they never had sex when they were married

 

because that would take a lot of restraint

they dated, but they were never married were they?

 

who knows

 

all i know is i would've hit that like ray lewis

 

THE POINT IS HE HAD SEX WITH HER AND RYAN IS WRONG AGAIN

 

She's saving herself for marriage jerk.

[imb]

you know that part in fight club were edward norton beats the hell out of jared leto and then he just keeps punching and punching and punching until jared leto's all limp and bloody and they have to pull edward norton off him and everyone is just disgusted?

 

sort of off of your point here but edward norton got to bang salma hayek AND kick the crap out of jared leto

 

real american hero imo

 

Swing and a miss.

 

are you saying they never had sex when they were married

 

because that would take a lot of restraint

they dated, but they were never married were they?

 

who knows

 

all i know is i would've hit that like ray lewis

 

THE POINT IS HE HAD SEX WITH HER AND RYAN IS WRONG AGAIN

 

She's saving herself for marriage jerk.

 

i knew she was pure as snow

[treebird]

you know that part in fight club were edward norton beats the hell out of jared leto and then he just keeps punching and punching and punching until jared leto's all limp and bloody and they have to pull edward norton off him and everyone is just disgusted?

 

sort of off of your point here but edward norton got to bang salma hayek AND kick the crap out of jared leto

 

real american hero imo

 

Swing and a miss.

 

are you saying they never had sex when they were married

 

because that would take a lot of restraint

they dated, but they were never married were they?

 

who knows

 

all i know is i would've hit that like ray lewis

 

THE POINT IS HE HAD SEX WITH HER AND RYAN IS WRONG AGAIN

 

She's saving herself for marriage jerk.

 

i knew she was pure as snow

 

snow that's been urinated on regularly

[imb]

you know that part in fight club were edward norton beats the hell out of jared leto and then he just keeps punching and punching and punching until jared leto's all limp and bloody and they have to pull edward norton off him and everyone is just disgusted?

 

sort of off of your point here but edward norton got to bang salma hayek AND kick the crap out of jared leto

 

real american hero imo

 

Swing and a miss.

 

are you saying they never had sex when they were married

 

because that would take a lot of restraint

they dated, but they were never married were they?

 

who knows

 

all i know is i would've hit that like ray lewis

 

THE POINT IS HE HAD SEX WITH HER AND RYAN IS WRONG AGAIN

 

She's saving herself for marriage jerk.

 

i knew she was pure as snow

 

snow that's been urinated on regularly

 

TAKE IT BACK

[Transmogrified Tiger]

BACK ON TOPIC

 

baseballreference.com says

Ballpark: Rangers Ballpark in Arlington

Attendance: 1,945,677 (11th of 14)

Park Factors

(multi-year): Batting - 100, Pitching - 100

(one-year): Batting - 97, Pitching - 98

Over 100 favors batters, under 100 favors pitchers.

 

does that mean what i think it means

 

Probably not

[imb]

BACK ON TOPIC

 

baseballreference.com says

Ballpark: Rangers Ballpark in Arlington

Attendance: 1,945,677 (11th of 14)

Park Factors

(multi-year): Batting - 100, Pitching - 100

(one-year): Batting - 97, Pitching - 98

Over 100 favors batters, under 100 favors pitchers.

 

does that mean what i think it means

 

Probably not

 

so espn is a liar

[SouthSideRyan]

BACK ON TOPIC

 

baseballreference.com says

Ballpark: Rangers Ballpark in Arlington

Attendance: 1,945,677 (11th of 14)

Park Factors

(multi-year): Batting - 100, Pitching - 100

(one-year): Batting - 97, Pitching - 98

Over 100 favors batters, under 100 favors pitchers.

 

does that mean what i think it means

 

Probably not

 

so espn is a liar

 

I think BR just uses the previous year's 1 year factor. True park factors are 3 year factors and wouldn't be available til the end of '09 (I think?)

[imb]

so, if i read between the lines correctly, you're saying that espn doesn't know what it's talking about

[abuck1220]

uh oh, jared leto may have a second wind...

[Tracer Bullet]

I'll admit I'm an idiot about some things, but how does a park that hasn't structurally changed vary so much from year to year? Rangers park has gone for top 5 for hitters in '06, to barely favoring pitchers in '07, to the best hitter's park in the game in '08.

[Tracer Bullet]

you know that part in fight club were edward norton beats the hell out of jared leto and then he just keeps punching and punching and punching until jared leto's all limp and bloody and they have to pull edward norton off him and everyone is just disgusted?

 

sort of off of your point here but edward norton got to bang salma hayek AND kick the crap out of jared leto

 

real american hero imo

 

Swing and a miss.

 

are you saying they never had sex when they were married

 

because that would take a lot of restraint

they dated, but they were never married were they?

 

who knows

 

all i know is i would've hit that like ray lewis

 

THE POINT IS HE HAD SEX WITH HER AND RYAN IS WRONG AGAIN

 

She's saving herself for marriage jerk.

 

i knew she was pure as snow

 

snow that's been urinated on regularly

 

She's into watersports?

[haltz]

dextermorgan obviously knows that VORP undervalues walks a bit.

 

Hamilton was the eighth most valuable player in the AL this year, depending on your view of clutch stats. If you are concerned about the methodology, it's here.

[CubinNY]

I'll admit I'm an idiot about some things, but how does a park that hasn't structurally changed vary so much from year to year? Rangers park has gone for top 5 for hitters in '06, to barely favoring pitchers in '07, to the best hitter's park in the game in '08.

Park factors are among the most overrated "stats" among statheads. Non-statheads don't even think about them.

 

The use of statistical formulas in this regard is to normalize the data so that someone can make a judgment between two or more players that play in different environments. However, the SD for park factors is so small that most of the time the data have very little meaning. Outside of places like old Coors (before the humidor) and Petco/Comerica most places play relatively similar.

 

The question that's important is, does player A perform better in park 1 than he would in park 2? A guy like Slappy was able to take advantage of Coors and Pro-Player because they had huge outfields. He really is/was a better player when he played in Coors b/c the park suited his abilities. A guy who drives the ball in the gaps isn't going to be as good in Pro-Player as he would in a more symmetrical park.

 

A guy like Hamilton who mashes the snot out of the ball will still mash the snot out of the ball anywhere he plays. So that means he's very likely to play well in a hitter friendly environment and play well in a pitcher friendly environment.

 

All and all I would just look at OPS+ to try to determine offensive output when comparing players.

[Tracer Bullet]

I'll admit I'm an idiot about some things, but how does a park that hasn't structurally changed vary so much from year to year? Rangers park has gone for top 5 for hitters in '06, to barely favoring pitchers in '07, to the best hitter's park in the game in '08.

Park factors are among the most overrated "stats" among statheads. Non-statheads don't even think about them.

 

The use of statistical formulas in this regard is to normalize the data so that someone can make a judgment between two or more players that play in different environments. However, the SD for park factors is so small that most of the time the data have very little meaning. Outside of places like old Coors (before the humidor) and Petco/Comerica most places play relatively similar.

 

The question that's important is, does player A perform better in park 1 than he would in park 2? A guy like Slappy was able to take advantage of Coors and Pro-Player because they had huge outfields. He really is/was a better player when he played in Coors b/c the park suited his abilities. A guy who drives the ball in the gaps isn't going to be as good in Pro-Player as he would in a more symmetrical park.

 

A guy like Hamilton who mashes the snot out of the ball will still mash the snot out of the ball anywhere he plays. So that means he's very likely to play well in a hitter friendly environment and play well in a pitcher friendly environment.

 

All and all I would just look at OPS+ to try to determine offensive output when comparing players.

 

Thanks, but I get all that. My question is how (or why) does a place like Rangers Ballpark go from 5th to 19th to 1st in park factor in a 3-year span. If you don't change the structure (or something like a humidor) how can the same park be hitter friendly, pitcher friendly, than the most hitter friendly place in 3 consecutive years.

[CubinNY]

I'll admit I'm an idiot about some things, but how does a park that hasn't structurally changed vary so much from year to year? Rangers park has gone for top 5 for hitters in '06, to barely favoring pitchers in '07, to the best hitter's park in the game in '08.

Park factors are among the most overrated "stats" among statheads. Non-statheads don't even think about them.

 

The use of statistical formulas in this regard is to normalize the data so that someone can make a judgment between two or more players that play in different environments. However, the SD for park factors is so small that most of the time the data have very little meaning. Outside of places like old Coors (before the humidor) and Petco/Comerica most places play relatively similar.

 

The question that's important is, does player A perform better in park 1 than he would in park 2? A guy like Slappy was able to take advantage of Coors and Pro-Player because they had huge outfields. He really is/was a better player when he played in Coors b/c the park suited his abilities. A guy who drives the ball in the gaps isn't going to be as good in Pro-Player as he would in a more symmetrical park.

 

A guy like Hamilton who mashes the snot out of the ball will still mash the snot out of the ball anywhere he plays. So that means he's very likely to play well in a hitter friendly environment and play well in a pitcher friendly environment.

 

All and all I would just look at OPS+ to try to determine offensive output when comparing players.

 

Thanks, but I get all that. My question is how (or why) does a place like Rangers Ballpark go from 5th to 19th to 1st in park factor in a 3-year span. If you don't change the structure (or something like a humidor) how can the same park be hitter friendly, pitcher friendly, than the most hitter friendly place in 3 consecutive years.

B/c they use runs scored as the primary dependent variable.

[NonProfitCow]

Do not watch ESPN right now.

[manbearcub]

this thread was worth a re-read.

[Clem Fandango]

Do not watch ESPN right now.

 

I can't. No TV. I take it there's a piece on Josh Hamilton right now?

 

Not having a TV makes me feel like I'm Patrick Fugit from Almost Famous, and everyone with a TV is Billy Crudup

[NonProfitCow]

Do not watch ESPN right now.

 

I can't. No TV. I take it there's a piece on Josh Hamilton right now?

 

Not having a TV makes me feel like I'm Patrick Fugit from Almost Famous, and everyone with a TV is Billy Crudup

An hour long program simply called "Josh Hamilton." It was an interview with Rick Reilly at his old high school gym.