College Football - Week of 10/18

[TruffleShuffle]

They could still have bowls with a playoff system.

 

Agreed. If they tried to be creative, it could work.

 

You can still have all of the bowls as normal. Rotate the 4 majors as serving as sort of a national semi final with a +1 game coming from those two semifinals. Put all of the major bowls back on January 1st where they belong with the National Championship coming on that following Sunday/Monday/Tuesday. However it works to give them 7-10 days off.

 

I don't want a big playoff, I just want 4 teams and that is it.

 

you and me both, my friend. my plan is exactly as you have it, make the two semifinals bcs #1 vs bcs #4 and bcs #2 vs bcs #3, then 7 to 10 days later you have the championship game. at worst you extend the season by an extra week for 2 of 119 teams. not a big deal. and i don't see how money/interest would be lost in this scenario... you'll have a ton of interest in the two national semifinal games, and winning the rose/orange/fiesta/sugar bowl is still a prestigious accomplishment even if it's a non-"playoff" game. it's not like they'd be any more "meaningless" than they are now.

[dew1679666265]

They could still have bowls with a playoff system.

 

Agreed. If they tried to be creative, it could work.

 

You can still have all of the bowls as normal. Rotate the 4 majors as serving as sort of a national semi final with a +1 game coming from those two semifinals. Put all of the major bowls back on January 1st where they belong with the National Championship coming on that following Sunday/Monday/Tuesday. However it works to give them 7-10 days off.

 

I don't want a big playoff, I just want 4 teams and that is it.

 

I could handle that or a similar setup as a compromise.

[SouthSideRyan]

If Penn St. wins out and you don't make the NC game are you going to be pissed?

 

if penn st. goes undefeated but alabama and a big xii school also go undefeated, i wouldn't be pissed about penn st. not making the championship game. they play in stronger conferences. it's similar to if we hadn't given up the td with time expired against michigan in 2005; texas and usc were undefeated and were better teams than us. the system sucks, but given the system that's in place, you want the best undefeated teams from the best conferences to play for the championship. however, if penn st wins out and florida goes to the championship game ahead of them, i'll be irate. it's not like florida will have a loss like ou's loss at texas on their resume, where you can say "well they just played a team that's tougher than any team psu played." they lost to friggin ole miss at home; penn st has plenty of games that are tougher than that and if they go undefeated, that'll mean they didn't crap themselves against an average team.

 

If Florida wins out, they would of beat LSU (already), at Georgia, at Vandy, and who ever they play in the SEC championship game.

 

By the end of the year, nobody's gona give a [expletive] about beating Vandy.

[Derwood]

yes, I believe a court decision made it that way

[ELCABALLO45]

If Penn St. wins out and you don't make the NC game are you going to be pissed?

 

if penn st. goes undefeated but alabama and a big xii school also go undefeated, i wouldn't be pissed about penn st. not making the championship game. they play in stronger conferences. it's similar to if we hadn't given up the td with time expired against michigan in 2005; texas and usc were undefeated and were better teams than us. the system sucks, but given the system that's in place, you want the best undefeated teams from the best conferences to play for the championship. however, if penn st wins out and florida goes to the championship game ahead of them, i'll be irate. it's not like florida will have a loss like ou's loss at texas on their resume, where you can say "well they just played a team that's tougher than any team psu played." they lost to friggin ole miss at home; penn st has plenty of games that are tougher than that and if they go undefeated, that'll mean they didn't crap themselves against an average team.

 

If Florida wins out, they would of beat LSU (already), at Georgia, at Vandy, and who ever they play in the SEC championship game.

 

By the end of the year, nobody's gona give a Howry about beating Vandy.

 

By the end of the year, nobody is going to care about beating Wisconsin or Illinois either.

[shnsajax]

If Penn St. wins out and you don't make the NC game are you going to be pissed?

 

if penn st. goes undefeated but alabama and a big xii school also go undefeated, i wouldn't be pissed about penn st. not making the championship game. they play in stronger conferences. it's similar to if we hadn't given up the td with time expired against michigan in 2005; texas and usc were undefeated and were better teams than us. the system sucks, but given the system that's in place, you want the best undefeated teams from the best conferences to play for the championship. however, if penn st wins out and florida goes to the championship game ahead of them, i'll be irate. it's not like florida will have a loss like ou's loss at texas on their resume, where you can say "well they just played a team that's tougher than any team psu played." they lost to friggin ole miss at home; penn st has plenty of games that are tougher than that and if they go undefeated, that'll mean they didn't crap themselves against an average team.

 

If Florida wins out, they would of beat LSU (already), at Georgia, at Vandy, and who ever they play in the SEC championship game.

 

I am wondering if Vandy is going to go the route East Carolina went after jumping into the top 15 :-). That really seems like forever ago.

[TruffleShuffle]

If Penn St. wins out and you don't make the NC game are you going to be pissed?

 

if penn st. goes undefeated but alabama and a big xii school also go undefeated, i wouldn't be pissed about penn st. not making the championship game. they play in stronger conferences. it's similar to if we hadn't given up the td with time expired against michigan in 2005; texas and usc were undefeated and were better teams than us. the system sucks, but given the system that's in place, you want the best undefeated teams from the best conferences to play for the championship. however, if penn st wins out and florida goes to the championship game ahead of them, i'll be irate. it's not like florida will have a loss like ou's loss at texas on their resume, where you can say "well they just played a team that's tougher than any team psu played." they lost to friggin ole miss at home; penn st has plenty of games that are tougher than that and if they go undefeated, that'll mean they didn't crap themselves against an average team.

 

If Florida wins out, they would of beat LSU (already), at Georgia, at Vandy, and who ever they play in the SEC championship game.

 

at vandy? winning a night game at wisconsin is just as hard as winning at vandy if not harder. the only reason vandy gets any credit for being good is because they're in the sec; northwestern is in the big ten and has one loss, are we going to give teams big ups for beating them?

 

and by the way, georgia is a neutral field game.

[dew1679666265]

Let's not get ahead of ourselves here. No guarantee Florida, Texas OR Penn State get though without a loss (or two)

 

This is extremely true and I really doubt any of the three make it through without at least one more loss each.

 

The original question, though, was IF all three did win out, who should go to the title game.

 

should or will? If one of the reasons for no playoff is to preserve the sanctity of the regular season, then you have to take the undefeated team(s), right?

 

If Penn State wins out, they should be in. If Penn State has one-loss, they should not get picked over a 1-loss Florida and 1-loss Texas team (if they lose)

 

I tend to think Penn State would go if unbeaten (and it could definitely be justified), but it's also justifiable that Florida would be more deserving - given that they might have three better wins than Penn State would.

 

But they lost a bad Ole Miss team! You can't just overlook their terrible loss.

 

It's not overlooking it. It's putting more weight on three tougher wins than Penn State would have. The loss would definitely justify Penn State over Florida, but wins over Georgia, LSU and Alabama would justify Florida over Penn State.

 

Neither would be a travesty is basically what I'm getting at.

[dew1679666265]

If Penn St. wins out and you don't make the NC game are you going to be pissed?

 

if penn st. goes undefeated but alabama and a big xii school also go undefeated, i wouldn't be pissed about penn st. not making the championship game. they play in stronger conferences. it's similar to if we hadn't given up the td with time expired against michigan in 2005; texas and usc were undefeated and were better teams than us. the system sucks, but given the system that's in place, you want the best undefeated teams from the best conferences to play for the championship. however, if penn st wins out and florida goes to the championship game ahead of them, i'll be irate. it's not like florida will have a loss like ou's loss at texas on their resume, where you can say "well they just played a team that's tougher than any team psu played." they lost to friggin ole miss at home; penn st has plenty of games that are tougher than that and if they go undefeated, that'll mean they didn't crap themselves against an average team.

 

If Florida wins out, they would of beat LSU (already), at Georgia, at Vandy, and who ever they play in the SEC championship game.

 

at vandy? winning a night game at wisconsin is just as hard as winning at vandy if not harder. the only reason vandy gets any credit for being good is because they're in the sec; northwestern is in the big ten and has one loss, are we going to give teams big ups for beating them?

 

That's the problem, Penn State would have wins comparable to the mid-level wins for Florida. If Ohio State loses another game or two, there won't be a team in the top 15 (save possibly Michigan State) that Penn State will have beaten. Florida has three of those (as of now) - as well as a possible win over a top 5 team (Alabama).

 

and by the way, georgia is a neutral field game.

 

And it's still better than any win Penn State will have.

[shnsajax]

They could still have bowls with a playoff system.

 

Agreed. If they tried to be creative, it could work.

 

You can still have all of the bowls as normal. Rotate the 4 majors as serving as sort of a national semi final with a +1 game coming from those two semifinals. Put all of the major bowls back on January 1st where they belong with the National Championship coming on that following Sunday/Monday/Tuesday. However it works to give them 7-10 days off.

 

I don't want a big playoff, I just want 4 teams and that is it.

 

you and me both, my friend. my plan is exactly as you have it, make the two semifinals bcs #1 vs bcs #4 and bcs #2 vs bcs #3, then 7 to 10 days later you have the championship game. at worst you extend the season by an extra week for 2 of 119 teams. not a big deal. and i don't see how money/interest would be lost in this scenario... you'll have a ton of interest in the two national semifinal games, and winning the rose/orange/fiesta/sugar bowl is still a prestigious accomplishment even if it's a non-"playoff" game. it's not like they'd be any more "meaningless" than they are now.

 

My guess is that the only problem is that the collective interest in the 4 BCS games is that they all want to be considered the National Championship game once every 4 years. But they could still have the +1 game at those 4 stadiums just after the bowl game.

 

I think 8 teams now is too much and is also overkill. For the most part teams #6, 7, and 8 really don't belong. In a lot of cases teams numbered #5 and a lot of times #4 don't either. If you put 8 teams in it you will start rewarding teams with 2 losses, and begin to diminish the importance of the regular season. Plus a lot more teams will have an argument of being in the top 8, were very few teams have an argument for being in the top 4.

[TruffleShuffle]

Let's not get ahead of ourselves here. No guarantee Florida, Texas OR Penn State get though without a loss (or two)

 

This is extremely true and I really doubt any of the three make it through without at least one more loss each.

 

The original question, though, was IF all three did win out, who should go to the title game.

 

should or will? If one of the reasons for no playoff is to preserve the sanctity of the regular season, then you have to take the undefeated team(s), right?

 

If Penn State wins out, they should be in. If Penn State has one-loss, they should not get picked over a 1-loss Florida and 1-loss Texas team (if they lose)

 

I tend to think Penn State would go if unbeaten (and it could definitely be justified), but it's also justifiable that Florida would be more deserving - given that they might have three better wins than Penn State would.

 

But they lost a bad Ole Miss team! You can't just overlook their terrible loss.

 

It's not overlooking it. It's putting more weight on three tougher wins than Penn State would have. The loss would definitely justify Penn State over Florida, but wins over Georgia, LSU and Alabama would justify Florida over Penn State.

 

Neither would be a travesty is basically what I'm getting at.

 

yeah but why is neutral field against georgia or home against lsu harder than at ohio state? because you think those teams are better? lsu's schedule consists of wins over app st, horrid north texas, @auburn (who you might have noticed is not good this year), 10 point win at home against mediocre miss st, and then completely pantsed by florida. georgia hasn't been too impressive either.

[ELCABALLO45]

Let's not get ahead of ourselves here. No guarantee Florida, Texas OR Penn State get though without a loss (or two)

 

This is extremely true and I really doubt any of the three make it through without at least one more loss each.

 

The original question, though, was IF all three did win out, who should go to the title game.

 

should or will? If one of the reasons for no playoff is to preserve the sanctity of the regular season, then you have to take the undefeated team(s), right?

 

If Penn State wins out, they should be in. If Penn State has one-loss, they should not get picked over a 1-loss Florida and 1-loss Texas team (if they lose)

 

I tend to think Penn State would go if unbeaten (and it could definitely be justified), but it's also justifiable that Florida would be more deserving - given that they might have three better wins than Penn State would.

 

But they lost a bad Ole Miss team! You can't just overlook their terrible loss.

 

It's not overlooking it. It's putting more weight on three tougher wins than Penn State would have. The loss would definitely justify Penn State over Florida, but wins over Georgia, LSU and Alabama would justify Florida over Penn State.

 

Neither would be a travesty is basically what I'm getting at.

 

yeah but why is neutral field against georgia or home against lsu harder than at ohio state? because you think those teams are better? lsu's schedule consists of wins over app st, horrid north texas, @auburn (who you might have noticed is not good this year), 10 point win at home against mediocre miss st, and then completely pantsed by florida. georgia hasn't been too impressive either.

 

Im guessing because the SEC is far and away better then the Big 10. Its not even close.

 

Florida would have win's against LSU,Gerogia and Alabama. Penn State can't match that.

[dew1679666265]

Let's not get ahead of ourselves here. No guarantee Florida, Texas OR Penn State get though without a loss (or two)

 

This is extremely true and I really doubt any of the three make it through without at least one more loss each.

 

The original question, though, was IF all three did win out, who should go to the title game.

 

should or will? If one of the reasons for no playoff is to preserve the sanctity of the regular season, then you have to take the undefeated team(s), right?

 

If Penn State wins out, they should be in. If Penn State has one-loss, they should not get picked over a 1-loss Florida and 1-loss Texas team (if they lose)

 

I tend to think Penn State would go if unbeaten (and it could definitely be justified), but it's also justifiable that Florida would be more deserving - given that they might have three better wins than Penn State would.

 

But they lost a bad Ole Miss team! You can't just overlook their terrible loss.

 

It's not overlooking it. It's putting more weight on three tougher wins than Penn State would have. The loss would definitely justify Penn State over Florida, but wins over Georgia, LSU and Alabama would justify Florida over Penn State.

 

Neither would be a travesty is basically what I'm getting at.

 

yeah but why is neutral field against georgia or home against lsu harder than at ohio state? because you think those teams are better? lsu's schedule consists of wins over app st, horrid north texas, @auburn (who you might have noticed is not good this year), 10 point win at home against mediocre miss st, and then completely pantsed by florida. georgia hasn't been too impressive either.

 

I'm going primarily off of the polls right now. Obviously they are very, very flawed and you make a good point that we don't know exactly how good teams like Ohio State, LSU and Georgia are right now (hence why I'm going mostly off the polls with this argument).

 

Things could change drastically by the end of the year (and I think they will), but right now there are three teams in the top 15 that Florida would have beaten if they win out and the lone top 15 win for Penn State right now is teetering on the edge (Ohio State).

 

Again, things could - and likely will - change, but as of right now I think the polls are our best information to go off.

[SouthSideRyan]

If there was a team as bad as Mississippi State in the Big 10,(There isn't) and Illinois or Wisconsin lost to them, you'd have point. Mississippi State is just a horrendous football team and they beat Vandy and played LSU close. The SEC is not deep this year and Florida can't sell itself as better than a 0 loss Penn St. team off of beating 8-4 SEC teams.

[TruffleShuffle]

I'm going primarily off of the polls right now. Obviously they are very, very flawed and you make a good point that we don't know exactly how good teams like Ohio State, LSU and Georgia are right now (hence why I'm going mostly off the polls with this argument).

 

okay well ohio st is ranked ahead of lsu in both polls, so i guess we can't say lsu (home game, no less) is a better win than a road game against ohio st. georgia is 2 spots ahead of ohio st in both polls and that's neutral vs road.

[Andy]

If there was a team as bad as Mississippi State in the Big 10,(There isn't) and Illinois or Wisconsin lost to them, you'd have point. Mississippi State is just a horrendous football team and they beat Vandy and played LSU close. The SEC is not deep this year and Florida can't sell itself as better than a 0 loss Penn St. team off of beating 8-4 SEC teams.

Indiana is pretty horrendous.

[SouthSideRyan]

I'm going primarily off of the polls right now. Obviously they are very, very flawed and you make a good point that we don't know exactly how good teams like Ohio State, LSU and Georgia are right now (hence why I'm going mostly off the polls with this argument).

 

okay well ohio st is ranked ahead of lsu in both polls, so i guess we can't say lsu (home game, no less) is a better win than a road game against ohio st. georgia is 2 spots ahead of ohio st in both polls and that's neutral vs road.

 

Dammit, beaten.

 

Teetering on the edge = Ohio St. #11. Top 15 in a not at all arbitrary cutoff kinda way = #13 LSU

Edited October 17, 2008 by SouthSideRyan

[ELCABALLO45]

If there was a team as bad as Mississippi State in the Big 10,(There isn't) and Illinois or Wisconsin lost to them, you'd have point. Mississippi State is just a horrendous football team and they beat Vandy and played LSU close. The SEC is not deep this year and Florida can't sell itself as better than a 0 loss Penn St. team off of beating 8-4 SEC teams.

 

Indiana

[SouthSideRyan]

Fine, IU is definitely as bad as Mississippi State. If Illinois or Wisconsin lose to them feel free to not acknowledge those wins against them as nothing but garbage

 

Feel free to kill me too. Bad enough we're looking at a 7-5 season right now.

[TruffleShuffle]

Let's not get ahead of ourselves here. No guarantee Florida, Texas OR Penn State get though without a loss (or two)

 

This is extremely true and I really doubt any of the three make it through without at least one more loss each.

 

The original question, though, was IF all three did win out, who should go to the title game.

 

should or will? If one of the reasons for no playoff is to preserve the sanctity of the regular season, then you have to take the undefeated team(s), right?

 

If Penn State wins out, they should be in. If Penn State has one-loss, they should not get picked over a 1-loss Florida and 1-loss Texas team (if they lose)

 

I tend to think Penn State would go if unbeaten (and it could definitely be justified), but it's also justifiable that Florida would be more deserving - given that they might have three better wins than Penn State would.

 

But they lost a bad Ole Miss team! You can't just overlook their terrible loss.

 

It's not overlooking it. It's putting more weight on three tougher wins than Penn State would have. The loss would definitely justify Penn State over Florida, but wins over Georgia, LSU and Alabama would justify Florida over Penn State.

 

Neither would be a travesty is basically what I'm getting at.

 

yeah but why is neutral field against georgia or home against lsu harder than at ohio state? because you think those teams are better? lsu's schedule consists of wins over app st, horrid north texas, @auburn (who you might have noticed is not good this year), 10 point win at home against mediocre miss st, and then completely pantsed by florida. georgia hasn't been too impressive either.

 

Im guessing because the SEC is far and away better then the Big 10. Its not even close.

 

Florida would have win's against LSU,Georgia and Alabama. Penn State can't match that.

 

you know what else penn st wouldn't have? a home loss against oregon st. or a road loss against a team like purdue. why? because those games are about as tough as a home game against ole miss, and unlike florida, penn state won their games against average teams with ease.

[dew1679666265]

I'm going primarily off of the polls right now. Obviously they are very, very flawed and you make a good point that we don't know exactly how good teams like Ohio State, LSU and Georgia are right now (hence why I'm going mostly off the polls with this argument).

 

okay well ohio st is ranked ahead of lsu in both polls, so i guess we can't say lsu (home game, no less) is a better win than a road game against ohio st. georgia is 2 spots ahead of ohio st in both polls and that's neutral vs road.

 

This is a good point, and all three teams have had massive beatdowns (Florida over LSU, USC over Ohio State and Alabama over Georgia). I'll agree that it's too early to make a final judgement on whether PSU or Florida should be in.

 

As of right now it would be justifiable for either to make it, though honestly, Bama has a better argument than Florida does. That's why we have six games left to play.

[dew1679666265]

I'm going primarily off of the polls right now. Obviously they are very, very flawed and you make a good point that we don't know exactly how good teams like Ohio State, LSU and Georgia are right now (hence why I'm going mostly off the polls with this argument).

 

okay well ohio st is ranked ahead of lsu in both polls, so i guess we can't say lsu (home game, no less) is a better win than a road game against ohio st. georgia is 2 spots ahead of ohio st in both polls and that's neutral vs road.

 

Dammit, beaten.

 

Teetering on the edge = Ohio St. #11. Top 15 in a not at all arbitrary cutoff kinda way = #13 LSU

 

Oh, it's very arbitrary, I don't deny that. I've already admitted numerous times that the hypothetical we're talking about now would never happen (I think all of PSU, Florida and Texas will lose a game or more this year - with Florida the most likely to have multiple losses). Right this very moment, though, Florida's got a tougher schedule than Penn State and would have won the SEC title by beating a (likely) top 5 Alabama team that slaughtered Clemons (average) and Georgia (top 10).

[TruffleShuffle]

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/sagarin/fbc08.htm?loc=interstitialskip

 

big ten is #3 conference, sec is #1, big xii is #2. the pac 10 is #5. if usc didn't have that loss against oregon st, would we be having this discussion - should florida be in the national championship game ahead of an undefeated usc?

[dew1679666265]

Fine, IU is definitely as bad as Mississippi State. If Illinois or Wisconsin lose to them feel free to not acknowledge those wins against them as nothing but garbage

 

Feel free to kill me too. Bad enough we're looking at a 7-5 season right now.

 

Just an FYI, it's Mississippi that beat Florida and the Rebels also beat Wake Forest (a top 25 team right now). They're not terrible - not good per say, but also not terrible.

[dew1679666265]

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/sagarin/fbc08.htm?loc=interstitialskip

 

big ten is #3 conference, sec is #1, big xii is #2. the pac 10 is #5. if usc didn't have that loss against oregon st, would we be having this discussion - should florida be in the national championship game ahead of an undefeated usc?

 

It'd be justifiable. It wouldn't happen, but it could be justified.

 

All the more reason why we need a playoff.