Soriano blames team "make up" for playoff demise

[C.C.]

Best 1-2-3 punch in baseball as far as starting pitching (pitching wins championships, folks).

 

Actually, scoring more runs than your opponent does.

 

Oddly, scoring runs factors into that.

 

I completely agree... but our starting pitching did the job more or less... our offense and defense killed us.

 

Regardless, this team was built to win it all... Soriano is wrong.

 

The starting pitching was awful.

 

15.1IP

15H

10ER

12BB

13K

 

That's the combined line of the 3 starters.

 

Take out Dempster's start and Harden/Zambrano did fine... but again... it still doesn't make a difference, who thought Dempster was going to bad? I had nothing but confidence in him...

 

The argument at hand is that Soriano said we weren't built for a short series, and that is false. WE WERE BUILT FOR IT... just didn't execute.

 

So now it's down to Z and Harden doing well...

 

11.2IP

11H

6ER

5BB

11K

 

 

That's an era of 4.6, that ain't going to get it done either.

 

Offensively, they're built for beating up on bad to medicore pitching staffs. Pitching, they're close to where they need to be for short-series but like most teams they lack a true ace, if Harden could stay healthy, it would be him.

 

Look at LA.

 

Combined over the course of the year, I would take Lowe, Billingsley and Kuroda over the Cubs 3. Although several factors loom over next year (Lowe's age, Z's workload, and Harden's health, Dempster's regression).

 

Let be honest Z never had a shot at anything but failure in his start. His defense let him down.

[Cynosure]

Best 1-2-3 punch in baseball as far as starting pitching (pitching wins championships, folks).

 

Actually, scoring more runs than your opponent does.

 

Oddly, scoring runs factors into that.

 

I completely agree... but our starting pitching did the job more or less... our offense and defense killed us.

 

Regardless, this team was built to win it all... Soriano is wrong.

 

The starting pitching was awful.

 

15.1IP

15H

10ER

12BB

13K

 

That's the combined line of the 3 starters.

 

Take out Dempster's start and Harden/Zambrano did fine... but again... it still doesn't make a difference, who thought Dempster was going to bad? I had nothing but confidence in him...

 

The argument at hand is that Soriano said we weren't built for a short series, and that is false. WE WERE BUILT FOR IT... just didn't execute.

 

So now it's down to Z and Harden doing well...

 

11.2IP

11H

6ER

5BB

11K

 

 

That's an era of 4.6, that ain't going to get it done either.

 

Offensively, they're built for beating up on bad to medicore pitching staffs. Pitching, they're close to where they need to be for short-series but like most teams they lack a true ace, if Harden could stay healthy, it would be him.

 

Look at LA.

 

Combined over the course of the year, I would take Lowe, Billingsley and Kuroda over the Cubs 3. Although several factors loom over next year (Lowe's age, Z's workload, and Harden's health, Dempster's regression).

 

I agree you may be right about the pitching (even though Zambrano had an inherited run score from first I believe) but let's not argue semantics, you win this one.

 

The fact is, even if this was a 7 game series, there was a very good chance the Cubs got swept anyways. Soriano making these statements is to take attention away from him... what would he had said if they got swept in a 7 game series?

[UK1679666180]

Best 1-2-3 punch in baseball as far as starting pitching (pitching wins championships, folks).

 

Actually, scoring more runs than your opponent does.

 

Oddly, scoring runs factors into that.

 

I completely agree... but our starting pitching did the job more or less... our offense and defense killed us.

 

Regardless, this team was built to win it all... Soriano is wrong.

 

The starting pitching was awful.

 

15.1IP

15H

10ER

12BB

13K

 

That's the combined line of the 3 starters.

 

Take out Dempster's start and Harden/Zambrano did fine... but again... it still doesn't make a difference, who thought Dempster was going to bad? I had nothing but confidence in him...

 

The argument at hand is that Soriano said we weren't built for a short series, and that is false. WE WERE BUILT FOR IT... just didn't execute.

 

So now it's down to Z and Harden doing well...

 

11.2IP

11H

6ER

5BB

11K

 

 

That's an era of 4.6, that ain't going to get it done either.

 

Offensively, they're built for beating up on bad to medicore pitching staffs. Pitching, they're close to where they need to be for short-series but like most teams they lack a true ace, if Harden could stay healthy, it would be him.

 

Look at LA.

 

Combined over the course of the year, I would take Lowe, Billingsley and Kuroda over the Cubs 3. Although several factors loom over next year (Lowe's age, Z's workload, and Harden's health, Dempster's regression).

 

Let be honest Z never had a shot at anything but failure in his start. His defense let him down.

 

Z never had a shot at anything b/c of the defense and Billingsley pitching great, but he had 2 outs with the bases loaded with only two runs in and gave up the bases clearing DB which brought that total to 5. He didn't make the pitches when he had to either.

[SouthSideRyan]

Best 1-2-3 punch in baseball as far as starting pitching (pitching wins championships, folks).

 

Actually, scoring more runs than your opponent does.

 

Oddly, scoring runs factors into that.

 

I completely agree... but our starting pitching did the job more or less... our offense and defense killed us.

 

Regardless, this team was built to win it all... Soriano is wrong.

 

The starting pitching was awful.

 

15.1IP

15H

10ER

12BB

13K

 

That's the combined line of the 3 starters.

 

Take out Dempster's start and Harden/Zambrano did fine... but again... it still doesn't make a difference, who thought Dempster was going to bad? I had nothing but confidence in him...

 

The argument at hand is that Soriano said we weren't built for a short series, and that is false. WE WERE BUILT FOR IT... just didn't execute.

 

So now it's down to Z and Harden doing well...

 

11.2IP

11H

6ER

5BB

11K

 

 

That's an era of 4.6, that ain't going to get it done either.

 

Offensively, they're built for beating up on bad to medicore pitching staffs. Pitching, they're close to where they need to be for short-series but like most teams they lack a true ace, if Harden could stay healthy, it would be him.

 

Look at LA.

 

Combined over the course of the year, I would take Lowe, Billingsley and Kuroda over the Cubs 3. Although several factors loom over next year (Lowe's age, Z's workload, and Harden's health, Dempster's regression).

 

Let be honest Z never had a shot at anything but failure in his start. His defense let him down.

 

Z never had a shot at anything b/c of the defense and Billingsley pitching great, but he had 2 outs with the bases loaded with only two runs and gave up the bases clearing DB which brought that total to 5. He didn't make the pitches when he had to either.

 

This is utter tripe Ping. He made the pitches 3 times when he needed to. He threw 3 double play balls that inning and due to the hit and run and defensive incompetence he got 0 outs from them.

[SouthSideRyan]

And I have no clue how you look back at this year and take Lowe, Billingsley, and Kuroda over Harden, Dempster, and Z. I have no clue how you look to next year and do it either.

[Ding Dong Johnson]

Harden was also a "victim" of extra outs with the fiasco that was the 1st inning in game 3. I was quite surprised that nobody was drilled in the ear by Z during game 2 -- I thought he did quite well given the circumstances.

[UK1679666180]

Best 1-2-3 punch in baseball as far as starting pitching (pitching wins championships, folks).

 

Actually, scoring more runs than your opponent does.

 

Oddly, scoring runs factors into that.

 

I completely agree... but our starting pitching did the job more or less... our offense and defense killed us.

 

Regardless, this team was built to win it all... Soriano is wrong.

 

The starting pitching was awful.

 

15.1IP

15H

10ER

12BB

13K

 

That's the combined line of the 3 starters.

 

Take out Dempster's start and Harden/Zambrano did fine... but again... it still doesn't make a difference, who thought Dempster was going to bad? I had nothing but confidence in him...

 

The argument at hand is that Soriano said we weren't built for a short series, and that is false. WE WERE BUILT FOR IT... just didn't execute.

 

So now it's down to Z and Harden doing well...

 

11.2IP

11H

6ER

5BB

11K

 

 

That's an era of 4.6, that ain't going to get it done either.

 

Offensively, they're built for beating up on bad to medicore pitching staffs. Pitching, they're close to where they need to be for short-series but like most teams they lack a true ace, if Harden could stay healthy, it would be him.

 

Look at LA.

 

Combined over the course of the year, I would take Lowe, Billingsley and Kuroda over the Cubs 3. Although several factors loom over next year (Lowe's age, Z's workload, and Harden's health, Dempster's regression).

 

Let be honest Z never had a shot at anything but failure in his start. His defense let him down.

 

Z never had a shot at anything b/c of the defense and Billingsley pitching great, but he had 2 outs with the bases loaded with only two runs and gave up the bases clearing DB which brought that total to 5. He didn't make the pitches when he had to either.

 

This is utter tripe Ping. He made the pitches 3 times when he needed to. He threw 3 double play balls that inning and due to the hit and run and defensive incompetence he got 0 outs from them.

 

Yet, show me that pitch to Martin and where that was located and I'll show you a 3 run double.

[UK1679666180]

And I have no clue how you look back at this year and take Lowe, Billingsley, and Kuroda over Harden, Dempster, and Z. I have no clue how you look to next year and do it either.

 

They didn't wear or break down at the end of the year like Harden and Z.

 

They're more likely to stay healthy next year, Lowe and Billingsley will likely be better than Z and prob. Dempster.

[SouthSideRyan]

Best 1-2-3 punch in baseball as far as starting pitching (pitching wins championships, folks).

 

Actually, scoring more runs than your opponent does.

 

Oddly, scoring runs factors into that.

 

I completely agree... but our starting pitching did the job more or less... our offense and defense killed us.

 

Regardless, this team was built to win it all... Soriano is wrong.

 

The starting pitching was awful.

 

15.1IP

15H

10ER

12BB

13K

 

That's the combined line of the 3 starters.

 

Take out Dempster's start and Harden/Zambrano did fine... but again... it still doesn't make a difference, who thought Dempster was going to bad? I had nothing but confidence in him...

 

The argument at hand is that Soriano said we weren't built for a short series, and that is false. WE WERE BUILT FOR IT... just didn't execute.

 

So now it's down to Z and Harden doing well...

 

11.2IP

11H

6ER

5BB

11K

 

 

That's an era of 4.6, that ain't going to get it done either.

 

Offensively, they're built for beating up on bad to medicore pitching staffs. Pitching, they're close to where they need to be for short-series but like most teams they lack a true ace, if Harden could stay healthy, it would be him.

 

Look at LA.

 

Combined over the course of the year, I would take Lowe, Billingsley and Kuroda over the Cubs 3. Although several factors loom over next year (Lowe's age, Z's workload, and Harden's health, Dempster's regression).

 

Let be honest Z never had a shot at anything but failure in his start. His defense let him down.

 

Z never had a shot at anything b/c of the defense and Billingsley pitching great, but he had 2 outs with the bases loaded with only two runs and gave up the bases clearing DB which brought that total to 5. He didn't make the pitches when he had to either.

 

This is utter tripe Ping. He made the pitches 3 times when he needed to. He threw 3 double play balls that inning and due to the hit and run and defensive incompetence he got 0 outs from them.

 

Yet, show me that pitch to Martin and where that was located and I'll show you a 3 run double.

 

Then you're asking him to be perfect. Under normal circumstances, he makes that mistake and gives up a bases empty double. What pitcher is able to go out there and get 9 outs in an inning without making a mistake?

[SouthSideRyan]

And I have no clue how you look back at this year and take Lowe, Billingsley, and Kuroda over Harden, Dempster, and Z. I have no clue how you look to next year and do it either.

 

They didn't wear or break down at the end of the year like Harden and Z.

 

They're more likely to stay healthy next year, Lowe and Billingsley will likely be better than Z and prob. Dempster.

 

How did Harden wear down at the end of the year? Because he gave up 3 runs in Game 3? Zambrano was terrible after coming back from the injury, and then he threw a good game in game 2.

 

It seems you're placing a lot of weight on how these guys threw in the NLDS rather than their body of work. In a vaccuum you'd trade our 3 for their 3?

[KingCubsFan]

The only thing wrong with the "make-up" of the team is that they are a bunch of cowards who can't take the pressure of playing as the Cubs in the playoffs. Plain and simple. This team had a lot of expectations thrown on them, and it's going to be that way for every good Cubs team until they finally win it. This team clearly couldn't handle it. The walks, the errors, the lack of clutch hits all mean the team was playing tight. It has nothing to do with the fact it was a short series (with the way we played we could have easily lost 8 straight games), or that we weren't "built" for a short series (we had 3 good starting pitchers) or that the playoffs are a "crapshoot." Soriano and the rest of the team (although I haven't heard anyone else make these type of excuses) need to shut their mouths until they can actually win a playoff game.

[UK1679666180]

And I have no clue how you look back at this year and take Lowe, Billingsley, and Kuroda over Harden, Dempster, and Z. I have no clue how you look to next year and do it either.

 

They didn't wear or break down at the end of the year like Harden and Z.

 

They're more likely to stay healthy next year, Lowe and Billingsley will likely be better than Z and prob. Dempster.

 

How did Harden wear down at the end of the year? Because he gave up 3 runs in Game 3? Zambrano was terrible after coming back from the injury, and then he threw a good game in game 2.

 

It seems you're placing a lot of weight on how these guys threw in the NLDS rather than their body of work. In a vaccuum you'd trade our 3 for their 3?

 

Going to back Z in Game 2.

 

You're using hypotheticals for that situation when none exist, he had 2 outs and the bases loaded and could not retire Martin.

 

I'm not asking him to be perfect but I'm not to cover up the fact he made a bad pitch to Martin after the Cubs made some errors either.

 

Harden was injured in Sept. in his shoulder and has a history of injuries, that's almost the definition of wearing down.

 

Same thing for Z, he was injured late in the year and then came back late to throw the no-hitter and beyond the no-hitter was not good at all.

 

You're using hypotheticals for that situation when none exist, he had 2 outs and the bases loaded and could not retire Martin.

 

Trade? Long-term or short-term, Lowe is 35yo. For next year, I would definitely take Lowe, Billingsley, Kuroda, & Kershaw over Z, Harden, Dempster, and Lilly and despite some concerns with Lowe. Also, I would take the top 3 as well over the Cubs top 3 b/c even though the reward is prob. greater for the Cubs 3, the risk for less production is greater with the Cubs as well (whether it be Harden's health, Z's cont'd regression, and how will Dempster the second year after severe increased usage).

[Soul]

The only thing wrong with the "make-up" of the team is that they are a bunch of cowards who can't take the pressure of playing as the Cubs in the playoffs. Plain and simple. This team had a lot of expectations thrown on them, and it's going to be that way for every good Cubs team until they finally win it. This team clearly couldn't handle it. The walks, the errors, the lack of clutch hits all mean the team was playing tight. It has nothing to do with the fact it was a short series (with the way we played we could have easily lost 8 straight games), or that we weren't "built" for a short series (we had 3 good starting pitchers) or that the playoffs are a "crapshoot." Soriano and the rest of the team (although I haven't heard anyone else make these type of excuses) need to shut their mouths until they can actually win a playoff game.

 

The comment didn't seem all that bad to me. Soriano's just a guy who is really disappointed, searching for answers like the rest of us.

[KingCubsFan]

The only thing wrong with the "make-up" of the team is that they are a bunch of cowards who can't take the pressure of playing as the Cubs in the playoffs. Plain and simple. This team had a lot of expectations thrown on them, and it's going to be that way for every good Cubs team until they finally win it. This team clearly couldn't handle it. The walks, the errors, the lack of clutch hits all mean the team was playing tight. It has nothing to do with the fact it was a short series (with the way we played we could have easily lost 8 straight games), or that we weren't "built" for a short series (we had 3 good starting pitchers) or that the playoffs are a "crapshoot." Soriano and the rest of the team (although I haven't heard anyone else make these type of excuses) need to shut their mouths until they can actually win a playoff game.

 

The comment didn't seem all that bad to me. Soriano's just a guy who is really disappointed, searching for answers like the rest of us.

There's no answers to search for. It's blatantly obvious what happened. There's really only two phrases that any player should be saying:

1. "I'm sorry"

2. "We choked."

[Moises a loo]

I thought Edmonds was the only one who wears makeup. And he played fine.

 

Also, anyone think the Giants would trade Zito's contract for Soriano's? (No I'm not kidding or [expletive], it's a serious question)

[UK1679666180]

I thought Edmonds was the only one who wears makeup. And he played fine.

 

Also, anyone think the Giants would trade Zito's contract for Soriano's? (No I'm not kidding or [expletive], it's a serious question)

 

They would do that in a second b/c they would be getting someone with production in return, unlike the Cubs.

[swordsman]

Did the journalist ask Soriano what he meant?

[rawaction]

Best 1-2-3 punch in baseball as far as starting pitching (pitching wins championships, folks).

 

Actually, scoring more runs than your opponent does.

 

Oddly, scoring runs factors into that.

 

I completely agree... but our starting pitching did the job more or less... our offense and defense killed us.

 

Regardless, this team was built to win it all... Soriano is wrong.

 

The starting pitching was awful.

 

15.1IP

15H

10ER

12BB

13K

 

That's the combined line of the 3 starters.

 

Take out Dempster's start and Harden/Zambrano did fine... but again... it still doesn't make a difference, who thought Dempster was going to bad? I had nothing but confidence in him...

 

The argument at hand is that Soriano said we weren't built for a short series, and that is false. WE WERE BUILT FOR IT... just didn't execute.

 

So now it's down to Z and Harden doing well...

 

11.2IP

11H

6ER

5BB

11K

 

 

That's an era of 4.6, that ain't going to get it done either.

 

Offensively, they're built for beating up on bad to medicore pitching staffs. Pitching, they're close to where they need to be for short-series but like most teams they lack a true ace, if Harden could stay healthy, it would be him.

 

Look at LA.

 

Combined over the course of the year, I would take Lowe, Billingsley and Kuroda over the Cubs 3. Although several factors loom over next year (Lowe's age, Z's workload, and Harden's health, Dempster's regression).

 

Let be honest Z never had a shot at anything but failure in his start. His defense let him down.

 

Z never had a shot at anything b/c of the defense and Billingsley pitching great, but he had 2 outs with the bases loaded with only two runs and gave up the bases clearing DB which brought that total to 5. He didn't make the pitches when he had to either.

 

This is utter tripe Ping. He made the pitches 3 times when he needed to. He threw 3 double play balls that inning and due to the hit and run and defensive incompetence he got 0 outs from them.

 

Yet, show me that pitch to Martin and where that was located and I'll show you a 3 run double.

 

Not taking into account that it was what? his 30th pitch? That's like blaming a pitcher for getting lit up in the 9th after throwing 150 pitches thru 8. He was set up to fail. He shouldn't have been out there. Bottom line, he still gave up 1 hit to the last 7 hitters he faced in the 2nd. That should be good enough every time.

[RedVerbs]

Errors are a part of the game. Zambrano could not get the final out, to get out of the jam. Bottomline.

 

Did the defense let him down? Sure. Defense has let plenty of pitchers down over the years, and all of them didn't give up bases clearing doubles, either.

[rynefan]

Why? Soriano is exactly right.

 

Who cares if he's right? He shouldn't be saying it. Especially after consecutive bad postseasons.

 

No kidding. What a moron. He had what, ZERO, or was it ONE, RBI in TWO playoff series? He's the worst leadoff hitter I've seen. The streaky BS, inconsistent defense, swinging at crap pitches in the dirt are beyond old. They're ANCIENT. I seriously think he has no idea how much his suckiness affects the team.

[jersey cubs fan]

Errors are a part of the game. Zambrano could not get the final out, to get out of the jam. Bottomline.

 

He got the final out multiple times, that's the bottomline. He did his job.

[rynefan]

Best 1-2-3 punch in baseball as far as starting pitching (pitching wins championships, folks).

 

Actually, scoring more runs than your opponent does.

 

Oddly, scoring runs factors into that.

 

I completely agree... but our starting pitching did the job more or less... our offense and defense killed us.

 

Regardless, this team was built to win it all... Soriano is wrong.

 

The starting pitching was awful.

 

15.1IP

15H

10ER

12BB

13K

 

That's the combined line of the 3 starters.

 

Take out Dempster's start and Harden/Zambrano did fine... but again... it still doesn't make a difference, who thought Dempster was going to bad? I had nothing but confidence in him...

 

The argument at hand is that Soriano said we weren't built for a short series, and that is false. WE WERE BUILT FOR IT... just didn't execute.

 

So now it's down to Z and Harden doing well...

 

11.2IP

11H

6ER

5BB

11K

 

 

That's an era of 4.6, that ain't going to get it done either.

 

Offensively, they're built for beating up on bad to medicore pitching staffs. Pitching, they're close to where they need to be for short-series but like most teams they lack a true ace, if Harden could stay healthy, it would be him.

 

Look at LA.

 

Combined over the course of the year, I would take Lowe, Billingsley and Kuroda over the Cubs 3. Although several factors loom over next year (Lowe's age, Z's workload, and Harden's health, Dempster's regression).

 

Let be honest Z never had a shot at anything but failure in his start. His defense let him down.

 

Right. I put none of that on Z. It's the Major Leagues, you've got the best record in baseball and it's the playoffs... FOUR ERRORS that easily could have been five? I remember when my kid pitched and had to get 5 outs in an inning because the catcher kept dropping the third strike. But they were TEN. Game two of this playoff series was disgusting.

[UK1679666180]

Best 1-2-3 punch in baseball as far as starting pitching (pitching wins championships, folks).

 

Actually, scoring more runs than your opponent does.

 

Oddly, scoring runs factors into that.

 

I completely agree... but our starting pitching did the job more or less... our offense and defense killed us.

 

Regardless, this team was built to win it all... Soriano is wrong.

 

The starting pitching was awful.

 

15.1IP

15H

10ER

12BB

13K

 

That's the combined line of the 3 starters.

 

Take out Dempster's start and Harden/Zambrano did fine... but again... it still doesn't make a difference, who thought Dempster was going to bad? I had nothing but confidence in him...

 

The argument at hand is that Soriano said we weren't built for a short series, and that is false. WE WERE BUILT FOR IT... just didn't execute.

 

So now it's down to Z and Harden doing well...

 

11.2IP

11H

6ER

5BB

11K

 

 

That's an era of 4.6, that ain't going to get it done either.

 

Offensively, they're built for beating up on bad to medicore pitching staffs. Pitching, they're close to where they need to be for short-series but like most teams they lack a true ace, if Harden could stay healthy, it would be him.

 

Look at LA.

 

Combined over the course of the year, I would take Lowe, Billingsley and Kuroda over the Cubs 3. Although several factors loom over next year (Lowe's age, Z's workload, and Harden's health, Dempster's regression).

 

Let be honest Z never had a shot at anything but failure in his start. His defense let him down.

 

Z never had a shot at anything b/c of the defense and Billingsley pitching great, but he had 2 outs with the bases loaded with only two runs and gave up the bases clearing DB which brought that total to 5. He didn't make the pitches when he had to either.

 

This is utter tripe Ping. He made the pitches 3 times when he needed to. He threw 3 double play balls that inning and due to the hit and run and defensive incompetence he got 0 outs from them.

 

Yet, show me that pitch to Martin and where that was located and I'll show you a 3 run double.

 

Not taking into account that it was what? his 30th pitch? That's like blaming a pitcher for getting lit up in the 9th after throwing 150 pitches thru 8. He was set up to fail. He shouldn't have been out there. Bottom line, he still gave up 1 hit to the last 7 hitters he faced in the 2nd. That should be good enough every time.

 

I'm not blaming Z for the loss, that was on the offense and defense. But, it was still a bad pitch regardless of circumstance.

[mlarner]

what exactly is a team that is built for a short series? why are the cubs not that type of team?

[Soul]

I'm not blaming Z for the loss, that was on the offense and defense. But, it was still a bad pitch regardless of circumstance.

 

OK, it was a bad pitch. You can't just disregard circumstance, though.