Integrity of the game

[Jon]

I'd just like to preemptively state that "integrity of the game" is one of my least favorite phrases in baseball and is only justification for managers whose teams are not in a race to make unproductive or potentially harmful decisions. The Cubs will finish off their race soon and I can only hope that Piniella decides not to give a darn about the WC and NL East races. As an employee of the Cubs, his job is to do what is best for the organization, not what is best for the Phillies, Mets, Brewers, or Astros.

[Derwood]

In doing what is right for the Cubs, that may mean resting people down the stretch, or playing to win, depending on who he thinks is the best first round matchup for the team.

[biittner77]

It really only matters during the Mets series. Barring a sweep of the Brewers, the Cubs will still need to beat the Cards 1-2 times to clinch. The day after they clinch no one will question playing the 2nd team- which still isn't that bad. The way things are going for the Brewers, those last 3 games may not matter for them either.

 

So Harden maybe doesn't pitch against the Mets and possibly no Zambrano either. Lilly and Dempster maybe have abbreviated starts and Marquis pitches as long as he can. That's really not that much different from what the Cubs have been doing for the last 3 weeks.

[chuckywang]

I think since we play both the Brewers and Mets the last two series, we'll be off the hook.

 

If the Brewers ask why we're not playing our regulars against the Mets, we can just say we're not going to play them against you either.

[jersey cubs fan]

I think the Cubs should play one game completely opposite. Every RH hitter bats lefty and vice versa. Treat 3b like 1b and run there after hitting the ball, have the infielders throw to 3b.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

I think if we clinch this weekend, there's really no need to send forfeit line-ups out every day. With a week left to play, we could give guys rest without gutting the line-up completely.

 

Assuming we clinch this weekend with eight games left, let Ramirez have 3 games off during that stretch. Give Lee a couple of games off. Give DeRosa a couple games off, and give Soriano a couple. I'd probably only play Geo four of the eight. Our righfield and centerfield have been pretty fluid lately anyway. I'd try to let Felix play at least 3-4 of those games, give Ward and Hoffpauir a couple of starts as well. If the days off a somewhat staggered, it won't look as bad as running out a line-up that looks like-

 

CF Pie

SS Cedeno

LF Hoffpauir

1b Ward

2b Fontenot

3b McGehee

RF Fukudome

C Hill

 

 

Of course, in addition to resting some guys, we'd want to set up the playoff rotation. I'd give Marshall a start and maybe Hart.

[inari]

I think since we play both the Brewers and Mets the last two series, we'll be off the hook.

 

If the Brewers ask why we're not playing our regulars against the Mets, we can just say we're not going to play them against you either.

 

Or we can just say because we felt like it.

[CubmanPi]

If the Mets series starts with any chance of them being the Cubs' first round opponent, I definitely don't want to see Z or Harden (or Dempster) starting against them. There's no reason to give them a look so soon before the playoffs.

[bukie]

I think if Felix has any chance of making the playoff roster, he should get as much playing time as possible next week.

 

Also, I wouldn't mind seeing Kosuke in there almost every day.

 

Beyond that, give Lee, Ramirez, Soriano and DeRosa a good 2-3 days off, and Soto at least half the days off.

[bcl412]

If other teams have a problem with resting people when they clinch than try harder to be the best team in baseball and not have to worry about it.

[Mizzou]

If the Mets series starts with any chance of them being the Cubs' first round opponent, I definitely don't want to see Z or Harden (or Dempster) starting against them. There's no reason to give them a look so soon before the playoffs.

I've seen this mentioned a few times now. I wonder if it really matters whether they start or not. Z, Harden, and Dempster have been around long enough for the Mets to know what to expect.

[bcl412]

If the Mets series starts with any chance of them being the Cubs' first round opponent, I definitely don't want to see Z or Harden (or Dempster) starting against them. There's no reason to give them a look so soon before the playoffs.

I've seen this mentioned a few times now. I wonder if it really matters whether they start or not. Z, Harden, and Dempster have been around long enough for the Mets to know what to expect.

 

Have the Mets faced Harden before? Good, starting Dempster is kind of a new pitcher as well.

[biittner77]

If the Mets series starts with any chance of them being the Cubs' first round opponent, I definitely don't want to see Z or Harden (or Dempster) starting against them. There's no reason to give them a look so soon before the playoffs.

I've seen this mentioned a few times now. I wonder if it really matters whether they start or not. Z, Harden, and Dempster have been around long enough for the Mets to know what to expect.

 

It matters more for Harden since they haven't seen him in person.

[CubmanPi]

If the Mets series starts with any chance of them being the Cubs' first round opponent, I definitely don't want to see Z or Harden (or Dempster) starting against them. There's no reason to give them a look so soon before the playoffs.

I've seen this mentioned a few times now. I wonder if it really matters whether they start or not. Z, Harden, and Dempster have been around long enough for the Mets to know what to expect.

Knowing what to expect and already being used to them are a little different. It makes it seem like the second start in a week against the same team would be a little more like pitching a fourth time through a lineup.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

If the Mets series starts with any chance of them being the Cubs' first round opponent, I definitely don't want to see Z or Harden (or Dempster) starting against them. There's no reason to give them a look so soon before the playoffs.

I've seen this mentioned a few times now. I wonder if it really matters whether they start or not. Z, Harden, and Dempster have been around long enough for the Mets to know what to expect.

 

With Z, probably not. On the other hand, the Mets roster has a combined 32 PA's against him, with only Delgado, Anderson, and Beltran having seen him for more than 3 PA's. Dempster is a very different pitcher this year in terms of stuff and in terms of what the batter sees with the glove flip. He didn't pitch against the Mets when they came to Wrigley.

[Mizzou]

If the Mets series starts with any chance of them being the Cubs' first round opponent, I definitely don't want to see Z or Harden (or Dempster) starting against them. There's no reason to give them a look so soon before the playoffs.

I've seen this mentioned a few times now. I wonder if it really matters whether they start or not. Z, Harden, and Dempster have been around long enough for the Mets to know what to expect.

 

With Z, probably not. On the other hand, the Mets roster has a combined 32 PA's against him, with only Delgado, Anderson, and Beltran having seen him for more than 3 PA's. Dempster is a very different pitcher this year in terms of stuff and in terms of what the batter sees with the glove flip. He didn't pitch against the Mets when they came to Wrigley.

I just question how big of a difference actually facing a guy makes versus seeing enough evidence on tape to know what he throws, and being briefed by the hitting coach as to when he likes to throw it. It's not like teams go into games blindly; they know what to expect from the opposing pitcher. At least they should.

[rawaction]

If the Mets series starts with any chance of them being the Cubs' first round opponent, I definitely don't want to see Z or Harden (or Dempster) starting against them. There's no reason to give them a look so soon before the playoffs.

I've seen this mentioned a few times now. I wonder if it really matters whether they start or not. Z, Harden, and Dempster have been around long enough for the Mets to know what to expect.

 

With Z, probably not. On the other hand, the Mets roster has a combined 32 PA's against him, with only Delgado, Anderson, and Beltran having seen him for more than 3 PA's. Dempster is a very different pitcher this year in terms of stuff and in terms of what the batter sees with the glove flip. He didn't pitch against the Mets when they came to Wrigley.

 

I don't think it would be a big deal if they played the series right now. But being that they play next week, the Mets would see Z twice in less than a week. It's not like a football game where you can only use 1/2 of the playbook. If Z is going to pitch, he is going to throw all his pitches. I don't know that there is any advantage either way, but for the chance it is, I would hold Z back.

[jersey cubs fan]

If the Mets series starts with any chance of them being the Cubs' first round opponent, I definitely don't want to see Z or Harden (or Dempster) starting against them. There's no reason to give them a look so soon before the playoffs.

I've seen this mentioned a few times now. I wonder if it really matters whether they start or not. Z, Harden, and Dempster have been around long enough for the Mets to know what to expect.

 

With Z, probably not. On the other hand, the Mets roster has a combined 32 PA's against him, with only Delgado, Anderson, and Beltran having seen him for more than 3 PA's. Dempster is a very different pitcher this year in terms of stuff and in terms of what the batter sees with the glove flip. He didn't pitch against the Mets when they came to Wrigley.

I just question how big of a difference actually facing a guy makes versus seeing enough evidence on tape to know what he throws, and being briefed by the hitting coach as to when he likes to throw it. It's not like teams go into games blindly; they know what to expect from the opposing pitcher. At least they should.

 

I have no idea how big the advantage would be, but I would think there is some slight advantage, and I see no reason to give it to the Mets. Seeing a guy actually throw you a pitch is much different than watching video.

[rawaction]

If the Mets series starts with any chance of them being the Cubs' first round opponent, I definitely don't want to see Z or Harden (or Dempster) starting against them. There's no reason to give them a look so soon before the playoffs.

I've seen this mentioned a few times now. I wonder if it really matters whether they start or not. Z, Harden, and Dempster have been around long enough for the Mets to know what to expect.

 

With Z, probably not. On the other hand, the Mets roster has a combined 32 PA's against him, with only Delgado, Anderson, and Beltran having seen him for more than 3 PA's. Dempster is a very different pitcher this year in terms of stuff and in terms of what the batter sees with the glove flip. He didn't pitch against the Mets when they came to Wrigley.

I just question how big of a difference actually facing a guy makes versus seeing enough evidence on tape to know what he throws, and being briefed by the hitting coach as to when he likes to throw it. It's not like teams go into games blindly; they know what to expect from the opposing pitcher. At least they should.

 

Yeah, but it's one thing to know what's coming, and it's another to see what came and have that be pretty fresh in your memory. Watching tape for 2 days and getting 0 live ABs against him is different from getting 4 live ABs, watching tape of those ABs and then getting 4 more cracks at Z 5-6 days later.

[bcl412]

If the Mets series starts with any chance of them being the Cubs' first round opponent, I definitely don't want to see Z or Harden (or Dempster) starting against them. There's no reason to give them a look so soon before the playoffs.

I've seen this mentioned a few times now. I wonder if it really matters whether they start or not. Z, Harden, and Dempster have been around long enough for the Mets to know what to expect.

 

With Z, probably not. On the other hand, the Mets roster has a combined 32 PA's against him, with only Delgado, Anderson, and Beltran having seen him for more than 3 PA's. Dempster is a very different pitcher this year in terms of stuff and in terms of what the batter sees with the glove flip. He didn't pitch against the Mets when they came to Wrigley.

I just question how big of a difference actually facing a guy makes versus seeing enough evidence on tape to know what he throws, and being briefed by the hitting coach as to when he likes to throw it. It's not like teams go into games blindly; they know what to expect from the opposing pitcher. At least they should.

 

Yeah, but it's one thing to know what's coming, and it's another to see what came and have that be pretty fresh in your memory. Watching tape for 2 days and getting 0 live ABs against him is different from getting 4 live ABs, watching tape of those ABs and then getting 4 more cracks at Z 5-6 days later.

 

I agree. I can't imagine it's really easy to hit one of Z's tailing fastballs until you seen it before and even then it's not easy when he's throwing it where he wants to.

[Mizzou]

Yeah, but it's one thing to know what's coming, and it's another to see what came and have that be pretty fresh in your memory. Watching tape for 2 days and getting 0 live ABs against him is different from getting 4 live ABs, watching tape of those ABs and then getting 4 more cracks at Z 5-6 days later.

True, that's a good point.

[MSG T]

I think if we clinch this weekend, there's really no need to send forfeit line-ups out every day. With a week left to play, we could give guys rest without gutting the line-up completely.

 

Assuming we clinch this weekend with eight games left, let Ramirez have 3 games off during that stretch. Give Lee a couple of games off. Give DeRosa a couple games off, and give Soriano a couple. I'd probably only play Geo four of the eight. Our righfield and centerfield have been pretty fluid lately anyway. I'd try to let Felix play at least 3-4 of those games, give Ward and Hoffpauir a couple of starts as well. If the days off a somewhat staggered, it won't look as bad as running out a line-up that looks like-

 

CF Pie

SS Cedeno

LF Hoffpauir

1b Ward

2b Fontenot

3b McGehee

RF Fukudome

C Hill

 

 

Of course, in addition to resting some guys, we'd want to set up the playoff rotation. I'd give Marshall a start and maybe Hart.

 

 

What's sad, is that lineup looks better than some we threw out there in '06. I know where you're coming from though.

[chuckywang]

If other teams have a problem with resting people when they clinch than try harder to be the best team in baseball and not have to worry about it.

 

That's a bit unfair, don't you think? There's always going to be some team that has to worry about it every year.

[jersey cubs fan]

If other teams have a problem with resting people when they clinch than try harder to be the best team in baseball and not have to worry about it.

 

That's a bit unfair, don't you think? There's always going to be some team that has to worry about it every year.

 

What is unfair?