Lou explodes in the post game.

[Guest]

Lou is awesome. Just the sight of Dusty during the last series had me all upset.

 

Let's look at the other side of the picture for a minute. Runners on 1st and 2nd. An evil, good for nothing bunt moves the runners up. A grounder to second and Cards win. I hate LaRussa, but he knows how to win.

 

We left 8 men on base, seems like a common theme of late. I don't look at manufacturing runs as a bad thing. Seems to work well for the Angels which everyone seems to have a woody for.

 

Bunting with runners at 1st and second is different than bunting with just a runner at 1st. On top of that, Pie was pinned to first because a) he can't get a good read on the pitcher (he's never been able to) and the reliever continuously threw over to first. On top of that, Soto is one of the hottest and best hitters and has never had a big league sac bunt (the guy bunting for the Cardinals doesn't fit that bill).

 

Whether or not TLR is a good manager, that grounder to second wouldn't have won it for the Cards if Lou actually uses his brain to load the bases and cause a force at home.

 

Who has a woody for the Angels?

 

Lou should look at the mirror before he explodes. He has his hands all over yesterday's loss.

[wade]

Lou is awesome. Just the sight of Dusty during the last series had me all upset.

 

Let's look at the other side of the picture for a minute. Runners on 1st and 2nd. An evil, good for nothing bunt moves the runners up. A grounder to second and Cards win. I hate LaRussa, but he knows how to win.

 

We left 8 men on base, seems like a common theme of late. I don't look at manufacturing runs as a bad thing. Seems to work well for the Angels which everyone seems to have a woody for.

 

Who did the great LaRussa have bunt in the situation you just described? A 20 homer guy? ROY candidate?

 

 

I understand what you are saying. I'm just not all up in arms over it. It could have went either way.

 

Pretty much the best case scenario still called for Soto making an out on purpose, which is why everyone's pissed. He's been one of the best hitters on the team- let him swing the bat and try to win the game instead of making an out and reducing your chance to score by sending up two batters in a row not as good as him after that.

[wade]

Unless I'm reading mlb.com wrong, the Angels are in the bottom third of baseball in sac bunts.

[wade]

I didnt listen to any post game reactions or read all 4 pages of this. First of all I want to be very clear that I am not in favor of the Sac bunt in the situation that Geo was called to do it last night.

 

Did anyone find some high level of hypocrisy that people were complaining that Soto didnt get a "good" bunt down, yet Soriano wasnt even called on to bunt in pretty much the same circumstance the next inning. IF one is to dog on Soto for bad fundamentals, than they would also have to dog on Lou for not calling the bunt in the same situation the next inning.

 

I guess people on the call in show went so far as to accuse Soriano of ignoring a bunt sign when he was up.

 

I sure as hell don't ever want Soriano trying to bunt someone over for Theriot.

[Drew Doughty]

Unless I'm reading mlb.com wrong, the Angels are in the bottom third of baseball in sac bunts.

 

6th in the AL in sac hits.

 

they also have a wholly mediocre offense and we (usually) have an awesome one. i don't know why we'd want to play more like the way they're perceived to play anyway.

[twothousandfive]

Lou's "roll up the sleeves" quote is awesome. Bumper sticker material. Let's hope it works and they can actually put some real numbers up tonight

 

In "The Hustler", when Eddie Felson was clobbering Minnesota Fats, Fats went to the rest room, got clean and cool, and rolled down his sleeves, basically starting fresh. He made it clear he was starting fresh even when he was in the hole. Maybe the Cubs should try that, instead. Replay the opening Day line-up -- Pie gets the start tonight, Theriot bats lead-off and Fukudome hits fifth.

 

That way, even if they lose, they are going to win six of their next eight.

[CarolinaCubFan]

Lou is awesome. Just the sight of Dusty during the last series had me all upset.

 

Let's look at the other side of the picture for a minute. Runners on 1st and 2nd. An evil, good for nothing bunt moves the runners up. A grounder to second and Cards win. I hate LaRussa, but he knows how to win.

 

We left 8 men on base, seems like a common theme of late. I don't look at manufacturing runs as a bad thing. Seems to work well for the Angels which everyone seems to have a woody for.

 

Bunting with runners at 1st and second is different than bunting with just a runner at 1st. On top of that, Pie was pinned to first because a) he can't get a good read on the pitcher (he's never been able to) and the reliever continuously threw over to first. On top of that, Soto is one of the hottest and best hitters and has never had a big league sac bunt (the guy bunting for the Cardinals doesn't fit that bill).

 

Whether or not TLR is a good manager, that grounder to second wouldn't have won it for the Cards if Lou actually uses his brain to load the bases and cause a force at home.

 

Who has a woody for the Angels?

 

Lou should look at the mirror before he explodes. He has his hands all over yesterday's loss.

 

I agree. With a runner only on first, the only force play is at 1st and 2nd. With runners on 1st and 2nd, it gives the defense one more option for an out at 3rd. Kinda like what Lee just did a night or two ago.

 

The goal was to get Pie home. A successful sacrifice puts that runner in scoring position with 1 out. We still had some pretty nice bats sitting on the bench. I understand that people feel the bat was taken out of Soto's hand, but I'm not one of them. Too many things could have happened to leave Pie still sitting at 1st with 1 out.

 

I like your thinking about loading the base, but at the same time, Marmol against Izturis? You can't blame Lou for giving that a go. Load the bases and you'd be looking at the leadoff hitter who went 2-4.

[jersey cubs fan]

Why is it that when people defend the sac bunt, they always assume an attempted sac bunt will be a successful sac bunt?

[BigbadB]

Why is it that when people defend the sac bunt, they always assume an attempted sac bunt will be a successful sac bunt?

 

Because they either haven't seen the umpteen times this year that the Cubs failed to move runners over on sac bunt attempts, or their brain cramps made them forget all those failed attempts.

[Guest]

Lou is awesome. Just the sight of Dusty during the last series had me all upset.

 

Let's look at the other side of the picture for a minute. Runners on 1st and 2nd. An evil, good for nothing bunt moves the runners up. A grounder to second and Cards win. I hate LaRussa, but he knows how to win.

 

We left 8 men on base, seems like a common theme of late. I don't look at manufacturing runs as a bad thing. Seems to work well for the Angels which everyone seems to have a woody for.

 

Bunting with runners at 1st and second is different than bunting with just a runner at 1st. On top of that, Pie was pinned to first because a) he can't get a good read on the pitcher (he's never been able to) and the reliever continuously threw over to first. On top of that, Soto is one of the hottest and best hitters and has never had a big league sac bunt (the guy bunting for the Cardinals doesn't fit that bill).

 

Whether or not TLR is a good manager, that grounder to second wouldn't have won it for the Cards if Lou actually uses his brain to load the bases and cause a force at home.

 

Who has a woody for the Angels?

 

Lou should look at the mirror before he explodes. He has his hands all over yesterday's loss.

 

I agree. With a runner only on first, the only force play is at 1st and 2nd. With runners on 1st and 2nd, it gives the defense one more option for an out at 3rd. Kinda like what Lee just did a night or two ago.

 

The goal was to get Pie home. A successful sacrifice puts that runner in scoring position with 1 out. We still had some pretty nice bats sitting on the bench. I understand that people feel the bat was taken out of Soto's hand, but I'm not one of them. Too many things could have happened to leave Pie still sitting at 1st with 1 out.

 

I like your thinking about loading the base, but at the same time, Marmol against Izturis? You can't blame Lou for giving that a go. Load the bases and you'd be looking at the leadoff hitter who went 2-4.

 

Izturis is a contact hitter. With no runner at first, you're forced to get a quick throw and have Soto tag the runner (didn't work). If the bases are loaded, you can either get the double play or a much easier force at home plate. Forget Skip, I'd have walked the guy in front of Pujols in that situation.

[CubColtPacer]

Lou is awesome. Just the sight of Dusty during the last series had me all upset.

 

Let's look at the other side of the picture for a minute. Runners on 1st and 2nd. An evil, good for nothing bunt moves the runners up. A grounder to second and Cards win. I hate LaRussa, but he knows how to win.

 

We left 8 men on base, seems like a common theme of late. I don't look at manufacturing runs as a bad thing. Seems to work well for the Angels which everyone seems to have a woody for.

 

Bunting with runners at 1st and second is different than bunting with just a runner at 1st. On top of that, Pie was pinned to first because a) he can't get a good read on the pitcher (he's never been able to) and the reliever continuously threw over to first. On top of that, Soto is one of the hottest and best hitters and has never had a big league sac bunt (the guy bunting for the Cardinals doesn't fit that bill).

 

Whether or not TLR is a good manager, that grounder to second wouldn't have won it for the Cards if Lou actually uses his brain to load the bases and cause a force at home.

 

Who has a woody for the Angels?

 

Lou should look at the mirror before he explodes. He has his hands all over yesterday's loss.

 

I agree. With a runner only on first, the only force play is at 1st and 2nd. With runners on 1st and 2nd, it gives the defense one more option for an out at 3rd. Kinda like what Lee just did a night or two ago.

 

The goal was to get Pie home. A successful sacrifice puts that runner in scoring position with 1 out. We still had some pretty nice bats sitting on the bench. I understand that people feel the bat was taken out of Soto's hand, but I'm not one of them. Too many things could have happened to leave Pie still sitting at 1st with 1 out.

 

I like your thinking about loading the base, but at the same time, Marmol against Izturis? You can't blame Lou for giving that a go. Load the bases and you'd be looking at the leadoff hitter who went 2-4.

 

Izturis is a contact hitter. With no runner at first, you're forced to get a quick throw and have Soto tag the runner (didn't work). If the bases are loaded, you can either get the double play or a much easier force at home plate. Forget Skip, I'd have walked the guy in front of Pujols in that situation.

 

I'd probably have thrown him a heavy diet of high fastballs. Izturis either lays off of them and walks (which is a just fine result) or he tries to lift it in the air for the hopefully (for him) game winning fly ball. But we know from Izturis that he tends to hit a lot of short fly balls the other way. So the likely two results are either a walk, or a flyout to Soriano in shallow left field that the runner doesn't dare test him on.

 

Instead, the pitch that Izturis hit was a fastball at the knees. Way too easy for him to get part of a bat on it and hit it on the ground with that location. You cannot pitch to him normally in that situation because Izturis is too much of a contact hitter and hits too many ground balls.

[wade]

The goal was to get Pie home. A successful sacrifice puts that runner in scoring position with 1 out.

 

A guy at 2B with one out is not statistically more likely to score than a guy at 1B with no outs. I think he's less likely to score.

 

We still had some pretty nice bats sitting on the bench.

 

None were as good at hitting as Soto.

 

I understand that people feel the bat was taken out of Soto's hand, but I'm not one of them. Too many things could have happened to leave Pie still sitting at 1st with 1 out.

 

And that would have still been better than no one on and two outs, which is what happened.

 

I'm not hell-bent against bunting, but not in that situation. If Soriano got on in front of Theriot, with Lee and Ramirez due up- I'd probably have him bunt. But not with a good hitter up and no one as good due up for two more spots nor on the bench to come in.

[Soul]

I believe the Cards bunted with Barton, who was hitting for the pitcher, correct? That's why Izzy came up afterwards, because TLR hits the pitcher 8th.

 

Yeah. If it would have been a callup Lou was dealing with, then maybe I don't freak out over the bunt call. Doing it with Soto is an entirely different story altogether. So that's an apples & oranges comparison.

[wade]

Why is it that when people defend the sac bunt, they always assume an attempted sac bunt will be a successful sac bunt?

 

Because they either haven't seen the umpteen times this year that the Cubs failed to move runners over on sac bunt attempts, or their brain cramps made them forget all those failed attempts.

 

I've got at least two times off the top of my head over the past few years they've tried in St. Louis specifically, that led to double plays.

 

And, people assume that a successful bunt means the next guy would get a hit?

 

I know some of us are assuming Soto could have done better not bunting, but I'd rather be wrong about that then giving up the out(s) on purpose and being wrong.

[SouthSideRyan]

I believe the Cards bunted with Barton, who was hitting for the pitcher, correct? That's why Izzy came up afterwards, because TLR hits the pitcher 8th.

 

Yeah. If it would have been a callup Lou was dealing with, then maybe I don't freak out over the bunt call. Doing it with Soto is an entirely different story altogether. So that's an apples & oranges comparison.

 

No, Lou has his legit hitters bunt in order to get the guy in scoring position for the horrendous callup.(guess who)

[NewUserName]

Another question about the Sac bunt situation.

 

What is the point of pinch running if you are just going to use the Sac bunt? Lou gambled by taking a better hitter out of a tie game for more speed. He then negated the speed factor by trying a sac bunt. It really makes no sense.

[wade]

Another question about the Sac bunt situation.

 

What is the point of pinch running if you are just going to use the Sac bunt? Lou gambled by taking a better hitter out of a tie game for more speed. He then negated the speed factor by trying a sac bunt. It really makes no sense.

 

The thinking is a successful bunt gets that real fast guy on second to score on a single easier.

[CubColtPacer]

Another question about the Sac bunt situation.

 

What is the point of pinch running if you are just going to use the Sac bunt? Lou gambled by taking a better hitter out of a tie game for more speed. He then negated the speed factor by trying a sac bunt. It really makes no sense.

 

I think the more speed was just a side benefit (and Pie's speed might have made a small bit of difference on both the bunt and coming around to the plate on a single, but the chances are not high that it would). I think Lou was putting in Pie for defensive purposes.

 

If it did come around to Pie's spot in the batting order though, LaRussa would have played the percentages and gone with a left-hander. I doubt Pie would have seen an at-bat in that game no matter how long it went. He was in for defense for a couple of innings, and then Reed would have come into the game.

[soapy]

Another question about the Sac bunt situation.

 

What is the point of pinch running if you are just going to use the Sac bunt? Lou gambled by taking a better hitter out of a tie game for more speed. He then negated the speed factor by trying a sac bunt. It really makes no sense.

 

i agree in many cases, but i didn't have a problem with it in this case (the substitution, not the bunt). Pie would have likely come in for his defense if they scored anyway so might as well get him out there to run the bases.

[Irrelevant Dude]

Hopefully Kaplan's recent tantrums will ensure he wont be back next year. He's well beyond being insufferable to listen to.

 

Not a big fan?

Kaplan lost any shred of respectability when he interviewed Chris Duhon a couple months ago and went out of his way to repeatedly mention how much the Bulls are going to miss him. First of all, no they won't... and secondly, stop kissing his ass.

[Derwood]

nothing cures a "tight" team like having your best hitter bunt because you don't have the confidence that the team can score.

[CarolinaCubFan]

The goal was to get Pie home. A successful sacrifice puts that runner in scoring position with 1 out.

 

A guy at 2B with one out is not statistically more likely to score than a guy at 1B with no outs. I think he's less likely to score.

 

We still had some pretty nice bats sitting on the bench.

 

None were as good at hitting as Soto.

 

I understand that people feel the bat was taken out of Soto's hand, but I'm not one of them. Too many things could have happened to leave Pie still sitting at 1st with 1 out.

 

And that would have still been better than no one on and two outs, which is what happened.

 

I'm not hell-bent against bunting, but not in that situation. If Soriano got on in front of Theriot, with Lee and Ramirez due up- I'd probably have him bunt. But not with a good hitter up and no one as good due up for two more spots nor on the bench to come in.

 

You guys are whooping me. It's hard to argue period, even harder when the result was a DP. Regardless, I love the analysis.

[wade]

The goal was to get Pie home. A successful sacrifice puts that runner in scoring position with 1 out.

 

A guy at 2B with one out is not statistically more likely to score than a guy at 1B with no outs. I think he's less likely to score.

 

We still had some pretty nice bats sitting on the bench.

 

None were as good at hitting as Soto.

 

I understand that people feel the bat was taken out of Soto's hand, but I'm not one of them. Too many things could have happened to leave Pie still sitting at 1st with 1 out.

 

And that would have still been better than no one on and two outs, which is what happened.

 

I'm not hell-bent against bunting, but not in that situation. If Soriano got on in front of Theriot, with Lee and Ramirez due up- I'd probably have him bunt. But not with a good hitter up and no one as good due up for two more spots nor on the bench to come in.

 

You guys are whooping me. It's hard to argue period, even harder when the result was a DP. Regardless, I love the analysis.

 

If it makes you feel any better, I didn't know or believe anything I typed above until about 5 years ago. I.E., there was a time not too long ago I'd have been right there calling for a bunt.

[CarolinaCubFan]

The goal was to get Pie home. A successful sacrifice puts that runner in scoring position with 1 out.

 

A guy at 2B with one out is not statistically more likely to score than a guy at 1B with no outs. I think he's less likely to score.

 

We still had some pretty nice bats sitting on the bench.

 

None were as good at hitting as Soto.

 

I understand that people feel the bat was taken out of Soto's hand, but I'm not one of them. Too many things could have happened to leave Pie still sitting at 1st with 1 out.

 

And that would have still been better than no one on and two outs, which is what happened.

 

I'm not hell-bent against bunting, but not in that situation. If Soriano got on in front of Theriot, with Lee and Ramirez due up- I'd probably have him bunt. But not with a good hitter up and no one as good due up for two more spots nor on the bench to come in.

 

You guys are whooping me. It's hard to argue period, even harder when the result was a DP. Regardless, I love the analysis.

 

If it makes you feel any better, I didn't know or believe anything I typed above until about 5 years ago. I.E., there was a time not too long ago I'd have been right there calling for a bunt.

 

Don't get too excited, my mind isn't changed, just not smart enough to argue it with you guys haha. 15 years of playing the game and 30 years of watching, you see things work. I'm a big fan of speed and nobody will ever convince me there is no such thing as chemistry. Like I said though, great analysis.

[David]

Why are people so much more likely to believe in personal experience or what they see than cold-hard numbers?

 

 

That aside...It was also idiotic not to walk Izturis at the end to set up the force at every base and the DP, and they probably should've pinch hit for Dempster with the bases loaded and one out.