In Defense Of Jason Marquis

[dew1679666265]

Anything Marquis can do, Marshall can do it better and far cheaper. There is no use or need for Jason Marquis on this team.

 

Except that DFA'ing him now would be a complete waste. He's here already so we're paying his salary no matter what.

 

We haven't been able to trade him to this point, but in the winter when there's just one year left on his deal it might be possible. That way we get something for him - or don't have to pay him for that final year. Cutting him now accomplishes nothing.

 

Does pitching him now accomplish anything, especially if Milwaukee or the Cards get hot again and challenge us for the division and he's getting lit up every 5th day?

 

If you don't cut him, then move him to the pen and give Marshall the spot. So what if Marquis doesn't want to pitch in the bullpen? Boo friggin hoo. I have plenty of things in my job that I don't want to do, but I do them anyway, and he's making more money this year than I'll ever see in my life.

 

Jason Marquis is not getting "lit up every fifth day".

 

He's only given up 5+ ER five times this year, which is not good but also probably not unlike most 5th starters.

 

Exactly. Marquis isn't pitching great and Marshall may very well do better the rest of the way - but will it be better enough to warrant basically having a black hole sitting in your bullpen (a pissed off Marquis).

 

Is this an ideal situation? No, but hopefully it will be remedied with a trade of Marquis in the offseason. For now, though, it's in the team's best interest to keep him in the starting rotation until the season ends or he really does "get lit up every fifth day."

[twothousandfive]

The biggest thing is that Jason Marquis is not the best option for the fifth spot rotation right now. This isn't based upon some foggy notion of potential, but Sean Marshall was a better pitcher last year than Jason Marquis and is a better pitcher this year. What is wrong with fans wanting the team to put the best five starting pitchers in the rotation? Jason Marquis right now is the sixth best option.

 

Banghart, I agree that if I had to choose between Marshall and Marquis for a key start, tomorrow, I'd pick Marshall. But it is also worth asking -- who is more valuable in the pen right now? It is difficult to argue a middle reliever has as much impact as a starter, but if you are big on the L/R thing, Marshall has value in the pen that Marquis wouldn't have.

 

And I'm not sure how much better Marshall is. To say Sean Marshall was better last year is a bit of stretch, and requires arguments no one really wants to make (Marshall's unearned runs in August should be added to his 6.18 ERA in August, Marquis' four earned runs on the final day didn't hurt the Cubs and helped convince Piniella to leave him off the post-season roster -- way to go Jason Marquis!). Marquis was mostly awful post ASB, but he was downright good in April and May. Marshall had a similar pattern, blowing up after a good May/Jun/Jul.

 

The argument has bogged down, but much of that is because the "defense" of Marquis basically says paying his millions and the added dollars to replace him (with Kevin Hart? Ascanio? Rich Hill?) means it costs more and the staff is very likely worse. (And that replacement is needed to replace Howry). If he is the sixth best option (and I agree he is) he should stay on the staff. Lots of teams have similar or worse situations (Gil Meche, Jeff Suppan, Jarrod Washburn, Carlos Silva, Randy Wolf). Marquis takes the ball every fifth day, pitches somewhere around six innings, and usually let's up 3-4 runs. 15% of the time he gets shelled.

 

The best arguments are always on the margins. I am confident we will not see Jason Marquis in the post-season, and we will see Sean Marshall. And that's the way it should be.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

The difference between Marquis and Marshall is being vastly overstated.

 

I agree Marshall is probably a better option, but it's close enough that I don't think he or the Cubs deserve being ripped for disagreeing. It's not nearly as clear-cut statistically as the articles of faith on this board would suggest.

 

And I defy anyone to show me a major-league baseball team with 25 players on its roster who are all above-average for their position with no adjustments for roles.

 

Accepting a contract that Hendry offered and being given a job that some would prefer go to a mediocre, slightly young alternative is in no way close to enough reason for the hatred Marquis inspires.

[Sammy Sofa]

The difference between Marquis and Marshall is being vastly overstated.

 

I agree Marshall is probably a better option, but it's close enough that I don't think he or the Cubs deserve being ripped for disagreeing. It's not nearly as clear-cut statistically as the articles of faith on this board would suggest.

 

And I defy anyone to show me a major-league baseball team with 25 players on its roster who are all above-average for their position with no adjustments for roles.

 

Accepting a contract that Hendry offered and being given a job that some would prefer go to a mediocre, slightly young alternative is in no way close to enough reason for the hatred Marquis inspires.

 

Why not? It seem like a cop-out to excuse a mediocre or worse player just because all they did was accept a contract. Hating a bad contract because of a bad player makes the bad player a pretty unavoidable part of that hate.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

I've seen standard bad-contract hate plenty of times, and the hatred for Marquis goes way beyond that.

[Sammy Sofa]

I've seen standard bad-contract hate plenty of times, and the hatred for Marquis goes way beyond that.

 

How so?

[treebird]

the arguments in favor of marquis here are generally valid, but they apply to every player in the major leagues. if you are defending him and saying it's just a bad contract, then you shouldn't dislike ANY player, unless he's intentionally screwing up.

 

yes, marquis is trying and it's not his fault he's bad. that doesn't mean i'm going to like him.

[carolinacubbie]

Marquis compared to the rest of our divisions number five starters.

 

Jason Marquis- Cubs

21 Games Started- 7-7, 4.73 ERA, 1.44 WHIP, OAVG- .273

 

Jeff Suppan- Brewers (I feel as if he worse then McClung or Bush)

22 Games Started- 7-7, 4.70 ERA, 1.55 WHIP, OAVG- .296

 

Joel Piniero- Cardinals

19 Games Started- 4-5, 5.04 ERA, 1.47 WHIP, OAVG- .305

 

Brandon Backe- Astros

24 Games Started- 6-11, 5.35 ERA, 1.63 WHIP, OAVG- .291

 

Fogg/Bailey/Belisle/Thompson- Reds

27 Games Started- 3-16, 7.71 ERA

 

I have no idea who the Pirates #1, #2, #3, or #4 starters, so it makes it hard to know who their #5 starter is as well. Their rotation is terrible.

 

Basically all this means is for a fifth starter Marquis isn't that bad at all. Granted this is just our division, but I'm pretty sure it all match up pretty well around baseball.

[TheHawk]

Marquis compared to the rest of our divisions number five starters.

 

Jason Marquis- Cubs

21 Games Started- 7-7, 4.73 ERA, 1.44 WHIP, OAVG- .273

 

Jeff Suppan- Brewers (I feel as if he worse then McClung or Bush)

22 Games Started- 7-7, 4.70 ERA, 1.55 WHIP, OAVG- .296

 

Joel Piniero- Cardinals

19 Games Started- 4-5, 5.04 ERA, 1.47 WHIP, OAVG- .305

 

Brandon Backe- Astros

24 Games Started- 6-11, 5.35 ERA, 1.63 WHIP, OAVG- .291

 

Fogg/Bailey/Belisle/Thompson- Reds

27 Games Started- 3-16, 7.71 ERA

 

I have no idea who the Pirates #1, #2, #3, or #4 starters, so it makes it hard to know who their #5 starter is as well. Their rotation is terrible.

 

Basically all this means is for a fifth starter Marquis isn't that bad at all. Granted this is just our division, but I'm pretty sure it all match up pretty well around baseball.

 

With Bush being the #5 in Milwaukee, Marquis probably makes more than all of those combined.

[Garage Party]

I've seen standard bad-contract hate plenty of times, and the hatred for Marquis goes way beyond that.

There are other bad pitchers on the Cubs and in baseball, but I'd contend that no other pitcher has the reputation for being bad that Marquis has.

[jersey cubs fan]

I've seen standard bad-contract hate plenty of times, and the hatred for Marquis goes way beyond that.

 

How so?

 

Yeah, that's a completely arbitrary statement. Latroy Hawkins took a hell of a lot more heat.

[Brett]

I really hate hearing the argument that Marquis is fine, because he's fine for a 5th starter.

 

That doesn't matter if you have a *BETTER* option for a 5th starter.

[Peoriaman]

It shows you how good we are as a team, and how naive some fans are, that wailing on our 5th starter (who is pretty respectable) is actually the most frequent thing we do here. This is how far we have come folks.