In Defense Of Jason Marquis

[Derwood]

i always love the pro-Marquis arguments. seemingly because the team is winning and Marquis is the #5 starter and he "eats innings" and doesn't have an ERA of 37.84 I have no right to complain, and if I do, my expectations are too high and I want a staff of ace pitchers. Did I miss anything?

[Hairyducked Idiot]

I love the anti-Marquis arguments. They seemingly say that every single player on a 25-man roster has to be above-average or ripped mercilessly, and every guy on the right side of 28 with a modicum of projectability is entitled to a job.

[Derwood]

I love the anti-Marquis arguments. They seemingly say that every single player on a 25-man roster has to be above-average or ripped mercilessly, and every guy on the right side of 28 with a modicum of projectability is entitled to a job.

 

when you're on a WS contending team, the goal is to have everyone on the 25 man roster above average. Is that really ridiculous to you?

[SouthSideRyan]

I love the anti-Marquis arguments. They seemingly say that every single player on a 25-man roster has to be above-average or ripped mercilessly, and every guy on the right side of 28 with a modicum of projectability is entitled to a job.

 

when you're on a WS contending team, the goal is to have everyone on the 25 man roster above average. Is that really ridiculous to you?

 

The thing is come October Jason either A. wont' be on the WS contending team's roster, or B. will fill the role of 11th pitcher, in which case he'd be above average.

[Derwood]

I love the anti-Marquis arguments. They seemingly say that every single player on a 25-man roster has to be above-average or ripped mercilessly, and every guy on the right side of 28 with a modicum of projectability is entitled to a job.

 

when you're on a WS contending team, the goal is to have everyone on the 25 man roster above average. Is that really ridiculous to you?

 

The thing is come October Jason either A. wont' be on the WS contending team's roster, or B. will fill the role of 11th pitcher, in which case he'd be above average.

 

 

C) won't be on the playoff roster at all

[CubColtPacer]

I love the anti-Marquis arguments. They seemingly say that every single player on a 25-man roster has to be above-average or ripped mercilessly, and every guy on the right side of 28 with a modicum of projectability is entitled to a job.

 

when you're on a WS contending team, the goal is to have everyone on the 25 man roster above average. Is that really ridiculous to you?

 

The thing is come October Jason either A. wont' be on the WS contending team's roster, or B. will fill the role of 11th pitcher, in which case he'd be above average.

 

 

C) won't be on the playoff roster at all

 

Which is A on his list.

[soapy]

I love the anti-Marquis arguments. They seemingly say that every single player on a 25-man roster has to be above-average or ripped mercilessly, and every guy on the right side of 28 with a modicum of projectability is entitled to a job.

 

no. only if you're getting paid $7+ million and/or there is a better in-house option available (as has been said approximately 1 billion times in this thread).

[David]

I'm OK with having an overall average SP as the worst starting pitcher on this team.

 

That said, aside from the fact that I'm pissed off about the contract we gave him to live up to such low standards, I think we have a better option on this team, and Marquis is getting the starts because of said contract.

[Derwood]

I love the anti-Marquis arguments. They seemingly say that every single player on a 25-man roster has to be above-average or ripped mercilessly, and every guy on the right side of 28 with a modicum of projectability is entitled to a job.

 

when you're on a WS contending team, the goal is to have everyone on the 25 man roster above average. Is that really ridiculous to you?

 

The thing is come October Jason either A. wont' be on the WS contending team's roster, or B. will fill the role of 11th pitcher, in which case he'd be above average.

 

 

C) won't be on the playoff roster at all

 

Which is A on his list.

 

http://clerccenter.gallaudet.edu/Literacy/images/RIFLogo2.jpg

 

:oops: :oops: :oops: :oops: :oops: :oops: :oops: :oops: :oops: :oops: :oops:

[jersey cubs fan]

I love the anti-Marquis arguments. They seemingly say that every single player on a 25-man roster has to be above-average or ripped mercilessly, and every guy on the right side of 28 with a modicum of projectability is entitled to a job.

 

See, there it is again, defending Marquis with utter nonsense.

[twothousandfive]

Since the ASB, Marshall has made 4 appearances for 6 innings. He's done okay, and was notably effective in a three inning stint replacing harden against Fla. Why didn't he get the call to replace Harden against the Astros? And why hasn't he gotten more innings while Howry keeps getting called upon?

 

Howry is a bigger issue, I think. Howry should not be on the team -- Marquis should not be starting.

 

There is an argument that, given their relative skills, Marshall is a better match for a long reliever role that Marquis, thus Marquis gets the starting spot. If Marshall (and it matters that he's a lefty) couldn't be counted on for two + innings to replace Harden and two plus innings replacing Marquis or Dempster (who seem next most likely to need a long reliever,but for different reasons), it would make sense to build those 5-6 innings into every turn through the rotation, occasionally deviating as needs dictated. Those innings could be as valuable as the six innings Marquis throws as a starter. But since that is not what is happening, it is difficult to justify Marquis over Marshall. Right now, I believe Marshall is the better choice as a starter, and the usage indicates Marshall is pretty much wasting in the bullpen.

 

he eats innings

Marquis doesn't eat innings, which is a big knock against him. He's not even at six innings/start, is he? He served a role by taking his turn every time through as the Cubs got a better sense of talent with Gallagher and Marshall, and he helped keep the Cubs from burning out the younger guys. He is good to have around in case they believe someone (Dempster?) can benefit from skipping a turn, and in case of a DL stint (Zambrano). But he isn't one of the five best starters currently on the team.

[loukycub]

I think baseball tonight on ESPN radio last night had a great point to make about Marquis. Although some fans may not like him, he eats innings, and he is a reliable pitcher who will take the ball every 5th day. BT also said that perhaps some fans expect every pitcher on their team to be an ace, which simply isn't a realistic expectation. Plenty of teams would be glad to have Marquis.

 

Just passing on what hey said, although I suppose the points about money and having other pitchers who can start still stand. I still "don't mind" Marquis.

 

keep in mind that for several years on the northside, you almost could make that case. when they were in the rotation healthy:

 

z

wood

prior

clement

 

could almost call that a rotation of aces. then you could move out clement and add in maddux. i think that the fanbase got a little greedy over a few years with potential rotations like that. right now i'm happy with marquis because while he isn't winning us games, he isn't losing us games either.

 

that being said, unless the team wins the world series this year, i don't expect marquis back with the club next year. and even then it would be a 50-50 proposition he's moved.

[TruffleShuffle]

(a) the cubs are very likely to win the division, so marquis is very unlikely to significantly hurt the cubs' chances of winning the division with his performance in the next month and a half

(b) if everyone is healthy, marquis will be left off the postseason roster

 

every game thread turns into a "God i hate marquis" hate-fest, but really it's a lot of hand-wringing over nothing.

 

next year when he's making $9.875M (i think), that'll be annoying. but don't blame the player for that, blame the general manager.

[jersey cubs fan]

(a) the cubs are very likely to win the division, so marquis is very unlikely to significantly hurt the cubs' chances of winning the division with his performance in the next month and a half

(b) if everyone is healthy, marquis will be left off the postseason roster.

 

Whether or not they make the playoffs does not determine whether one player hurt or helped a team's chances to make the playoffs.

 

The fact that he is leave off the playoff roster bad is a big reason why a lot of people complain about him.

[TruffleShuffle]

(a) the cubs are very likely to win the division, so marquis is very unlikely to significantly hurt the cubs' chances of winning the division with his performance in the next month and a half

(b) if everyone is healthy, marquis will be left off the postseason roster.

 

Whether or not they make the playoffs does not determine whether one player hurt or helped a team's chances to make the playoffs.

 

The fact that he is leave off the playoff roster bad is a big reason why a lot of people complain about him.

 

the initial notice was a physical appearance black.

[Banghart]

The argument does seem to have bogged down here, but I can't help but chime in for why it is perfectly reasonable not to like Jason Marquis. The biggest thing is that Jason Marquis is not the best option for the fifth spot rotation right now. This isn't based upon some foggy notion of potential, but Sean Marshall was a better pitcher last year than Jason Marquis and is a better pitcher this year. What is wrong with fans wanting the team to put the best five starting pitchers in the rotation? Jason Marquis right now is the sixth best option.

 

While it is not Jason Marquis' fault that for some reason Jim Hendry felt it necessary to give him that absurd contract after being one of the worst starting pitchers in the league, but it is clear that is why he was given the job out of spring training after being left off the postseason roster and is still in the rotation now. And while I don't like to get into arguments about player's attitudes, I think there is something to be sad about Jason Marquis earlier this year. I know everyone knows this, but I think it is worth repeating that Jason Marquis said he would rather play for another team then be moved into the bullpen. He was more concerned about himself than the team. That isn't even debatable like the tired Aramis Ramirez is lazy arguments. So on top of not being the best player for the job, I think fans are reasonable in there dislike for a player that clearly is more concerned with his position on the team than what is best for the team.

[dew1679666265]

The argument does seem to have bogged down here, but I can't help but chime in for why it is perfectly reasonable not to like Jason Marquis. The biggest thing is that Jason Marquis is not the best option for the fifth spot rotation right now. This isn't based upon some foggy notion of potential, but Sean Marshall was a better pitcher last year than Jason Marquis and is a better pitcher this year. What is wrong with fans wanting the team to put the best five starting pitchers in the rotation? Jason Marquis right now is the sixth best option.

 

While it is not Jason Marquis' fault that for some reason Jim Hendry felt it necessary to give him that absurd contract after being one of the worst starting pitchers in the league, but it is clear that is why he was given the job out of spring training after being left off the postseason roster and is still in the rotation now. And while I don't like to get into arguments about player's attitudes, I think there is something to be sad about Jason Marquis earlier this year. I know everyone knows this, but I think it is worth repeating that Jason Marquis said he would rather play for another team then be moved into the bullpen. He was more concerned about himself than the team. That isn't even debatable like the tired Aramis Ramirez is lazy arguments. So on top of not being the best player for the job, I think fans are reasonable in there dislike for a player that clearly is more concerned with his position on the team than what is best for the team.

 

I don't like Jason Marquis. I think he should be off the team and, in fact, wish he was never signed in the first place.

 

That said, to say he's a terrible pitcher or awful or anything like that is simply overexaggeration. He's a very average starter, like him or not. He's ok, but he's nothing special. Every game he starts is not an automatic loss.

 

Again, I don't like him and don't mind others saying they don't like him. But it shouldn't be ignored that he's an average pitcher and not as awful as many would make him out to be.

[Banghart]

I don't like Jason Marquis. I think he should be off the team and, in fact, wish he was never signed in the first place.

 

That said, to say he's a terrible pitcher or awful or anything like that is simply overexaggeration. He's a very average starter, like him or not. He's ok, but he's nothing special. Every game he starts is not an automatic loss.

 

Again, I don't like him and don't mind others saying they don't like him. But it shouldn't be ignored that he's an average pitcher and not as awful as many would make him out to be.

I never said that Marquis wasn't an average starter. I said that the Cubs have five better pitchers right now on the roster than Jason Marquis, and that is my problem with Jason Marquis.

[erik316wttn]

Anything Marquis can do, Marshall can do it better and far cheaper. There is no use or need for Jason Marquis on this team.

[dew1679666265]

I don't like Jason Marquis. I think he should be off the team and, in fact, wish he was never signed in the first place.

 

That said, to say he's a terrible pitcher or awful or anything like that is simply overexaggeration. He's a very average starter, like him or not. He's ok, but he's nothing special. Every game he starts is not an automatic loss.

 

Again, I don't like him and don't mind others saying they don't like him. But it shouldn't be ignored that he's an average pitcher and not as awful as many would make him out to be.

I never said that Marquis wasn't an average starter. I said that the Cubs have five better pitchers right now on the roster than Jason Marquis, and that is my problem with Jason Marquis.

 

My post wasn't necessarily meant for you in particular (even though I quoted you - it was the easiest thing to do :D ).

 

I've seen it quite often that people think Marquis is a horrible starter who should be immediately DFA'd. That is a very flawed position. It's not one I recall you taking, though.

 

And I do think Marshall would be better, but there's the inherent injury risk with him so I can sort of understand their thinking. Hopefully Marquis will be shipped off in the winter (I expect it to happen) and we can see who takes over that fifth spot.

[dew1679666265]

Anything Marquis can do, Marshall can do it better and far cheaper. There is no use or need for Jason Marquis on this team.

 

Except that DFA'ing him now would be a complete waste. He's here already so we're paying his salary no matter what.

 

We haven't been able to trade him to this point, but in the winter when there's just one year left on his deal it might be possible. That way we get something for him - or don't have to pay him for that final year. Cutting him now accomplishes nothing.

[erik316wttn]

Anything Marquis can do, Marshall can do it better and far cheaper. There is no use or need for Jason Marquis on this team.

 

Except that DFA'ing him now would be a complete waste. He's here already so we're paying his salary no matter what.

 

We haven't been able to trade him to this point, but in the winter when there's just one year left on his deal it might be possible. That way we get something for him - or don't have to pay him for that final year. Cutting him now accomplishes nothing.

 

Does pitching him now accomplish anything, especially if Milwaukee or the Cards get hot again and challenge us for the division and he's getting lit up every 5th day?

 

If you don't cut him, then move him to the pen and give Marshall the spot. So what if Marquis doesn't want to pitch in the bullpen? Boo friggin hoo. I have plenty of things in my job that I don't want to do, but I do them anyway, and he's making more money this year than I'll ever see in my life.

[imb]

Anything Marquis can do, Marshall can do it better and far cheaper. There is no use or need for Jason Marquis on this team.

 

Except that DFA'ing him now would be a complete waste. He's here already so we're paying his salary no matter what.

 

We haven't been able to trade him to this point, but in the winter when there's just one year left on his deal it might be possible. That way we get something for him - or don't have to pay him for that final year. Cutting him now accomplishes nothing.

 

Does pitching him now accomplish anything, especially if Milwaukee or the Cards get hot again and challenge us for the division and he's getting lit up every 5th day?

 

If you don't cut him, then move him to the pen and give Marshall the spot. So what if Marquis doesn't want to pitch in the bullpen? Boo friggin hoo. I have plenty of things in my job that I don't want to do, but I do them anyway, and he's making more money this year than I'll ever see in my life.

 

Jason Marquis is not getting "lit up every fifth day".

 

He's only given up 5+ ER five times this year, which is not good but also probably not unlike most 5th starters.

[Ski]

So basically, if we weren't paying Marquis as much and we didn't have better alternatives, everyone would at least hate Marquis a little less?

[Amie]

Talking as if moving a stubborn starter to the pen is easy is just foolish. Marshall is very flexible and has proven that he can easily adapt to any roll, so he is far more valuable then Marquis.

 

Marquis on the other hand "thinks" he is a starter, and he has already pitched a fit at the mere mention of him pitching out of the pen. He likely will not try anything else, or do well at anything else, and why on earth would you try to make this sort of change in the midths of a playoff run? It is fight not worth getting into with him. They will likely dump him and his contract over the winter.

 

For the record, he has actually had some pretty darn good road games in recent week. In a couple he gave up no runs at all. However, got no runs in support. At least he seems to be a little better in the second half then he usually is......but hopefully he will be long gone some next year.