Cubs looking @ Ibanez?

[dew1679666265]

How does Dunn come cheaply? If he were dealt to a team in the same division, you can expect the price tag to be much more than if he were dealt outside of the division or to the AL.

 

I wouldn't say Dunn will come cheaply, but it sounds like there is very little interest in him. While we'd obviously have to give up something better than what the Reds will get back in draft compensation, but that'd sure be worth it for the stretch run (and our draft compensation).

 

Frankly, I don't buy the whole "intradivision" pricetag in a situation like this where one team is way out and the player will be a rental. If the Reds like what we're offering more than 2 draft picks, then why should they hurt their team by turning us down? They aren't competing against us for the rest of the year. Given that Ibanez has some teams very intersted in him with the M's having a big asking price, I really don't think the cost will be that different for the two players. And definitely nowhere near the difference value.

 

I'd agree with this if it was a guarantee that he was only a rental player. But, with Cub's ownership currently in flux, that isn't a guarantee. If Mark Cuban bought the team, there is always the possibility that he could give Dunn a lengthy contract.

 

Are the Reds willing to trade Dunn to a team in their division and then face him for the next 5 some odd years?

 

Unless they plan on signing him to an extention then theres no difference between them trading him to us now and letting him walk in the offseason.

 

If there's absolutely zero market for him, I'd agree. But, if they've got two offers on the table with one from the Cubs and one from the Rangers, they'll demand more from the Cubs than Texas - simply so that if they have to face him constantly for the next five years, they'll get a really good haul from the intradivison team.

[nilodnayr]

How does Dunn come cheaply? If he were dealt to a team in the same division, you can expect the price tag to be much more than if he were dealt outside of the division or to the AL.

 

I wouldn't say Dunn will come cheaply, but it sounds like there is very little interest in him. While we'd obviously have to give up something better than what the Reds will get back in draft compensation, but that'd sure be worth it for the stretch run (and our draft compensation).

 

Frankly, I don't buy the whole "intradivision" pricetag in a situation like this where one team is way out and the player will be a rental. If the Reds like what we're offering more than 2 draft picks, then why should they hurt their team by turning us down? They aren't competing against us for the rest of the year. Given that Ibanez has some teams very intersted in him with the M's having a big asking price, I really don't think the cost will be that different for the two players. And definitely nowhere near the difference value.

 

I'd agree with this if it was a guarantee that he was only a rental player. But, with Cub's ownership currently in flux, that isn't a guarantee. If Mark Cuban bought the team, there is always the possibility that he could give Dunn a lengthy contract.

 

Are the Reds willing to trade Dunn to a team in their division and then face him for the next 5 some odd years?

 

Unless they plan on signing him to an extention then theres no difference between them trading him to us now and letting him walk in the offseason.

 

If there's absolutely zero market for him, I'd agree. But, if they've got two offers on the table with one from the Cubs and one from the Rangers, they'll demand more from the Cubs than Texas - simply so that if they have to face him constantly for the next five years, they'll get a really good haul from the intradivison team.

 

HES A FREE AGENT AFTER THIS YEAR. Regardless of whether or not they keep him, trade him to the Cubs or any other team, the odds are most likely relatively the same that he will be a cub in 2009 and beyond. Unfortunately, those odds are slim to none, but the point is, tradin him to us now does not mean he will be with us for the next 5 years.

[dew1679666265]

How does Dunn come cheaply? If he were dealt to a team in the same division, you can expect the price tag to be much more than if he were dealt outside of the division or to the AL.

 

I wouldn't say Dunn will come cheaply, but it sounds like there is very little interest in him. While we'd obviously have to give up something better than what the Reds will get back in draft compensation, but that'd sure be worth it for the stretch run (and our draft compensation).

 

Frankly, I don't buy the whole "intradivision" pricetag in a situation like this where one team is way out and the player will be a rental. If the Reds like what we're offering more than 2 draft picks, then why should they hurt their team by turning us down? They aren't competing against us for the rest of the year. Given that Ibanez has some teams very intersted in him with the M's having a big asking price, I really don't think the cost will be that different for the two players. And definitely nowhere near the difference value.

 

I'd agree with this if it was a guarantee that he was only a rental player. But, with Cub's ownership currently in flux, that isn't a guarantee. If Mark Cuban bought the team, there is always the possibility that he could give Dunn a lengthy contract.

 

Are the Reds willing to trade Dunn to a team in their division and then face him for the next 5 some odd years?

 

Unless they plan on signing him to an extention then theres no difference between them trading him to us now and letting him walk in the offseason.

 

If there's absolutely zero market for him, I'd agree. But, if they've got two offers on the table with one from the Cubs and one from the Rangers, they'll demand more from the Cubs than Texas - simply so that if they have to face him constantly for the next five years, they'll get a really good haul from the intradivison team.

 

HES A FREE AGENT AFTER THIS YEAR. Regardless of whether or not they keep him, trade him to the Cubs or any other team, the odds are most likely relatively the same that he will be a cub in 2009 and beyond. Unfortunately, those odds are slim to none, but the point is, tradin him to us now does not mean he will be with us for the next 5 years.

 

It doesn't necessarily mean it, but there's a good chance the recently free-spending Cubs will have the inside track to resigning him if they acquire him. If they don't, they'll have to fight for him on the free agent market like everybody else (and have to spend more most likely).

 

Teams have generally erred on the side of trading out of division even with expiring contracts when they have the choice. It's a bigger deal if it's a young guy under contract for a few more years (McLouth), but it's still something other teams will (right or wrong) consider for someone like Dunn who's a long-term contract candidate.

[kjfoster 1553]

I would not mind:

 

Soriano LF

Fukudome CF

Lee 1b

ARam 3b

Ibanez RF

Soto C

DeRo 2b

Theriot SS

Pitcher

 

As long as the prospects aren't in the top tier, I would do it.

 

That's not even an improvement on what we have right now.

 

And it makes up worse on defense... not a good move

[ChiCubsFan]

I would not mind:

 

Soriano LF

Fukudome CF

Lee 1b

ARam 3b

Ibanez RF

Soto C

DeRo 2b

Theriot SS

Pitcher

 

As long as the prospects aren't in the top tier, I would do it.

 

That's not even an improvement on what we have right now.

 

And it makes up worse on defense... not a good move

 

How is it not an improvement? Edmonds has been pretty bad in July and is banged up. Even if he's not, Ibanez is a better hitter at this point in their careers. Since the only changes are Ibanez for Edmonds then it is an improvement. Defensively its a downgrade. I'll agree with that. I'm just excited they are throwing around the possibility of moving Fukudome to CF. That's the best move for this team long-term. I still wish Pie would get a real chance in CF, though.

[Ding Dong Johnson]

Edmonds has been pretty bad in July

if an 825 OPS is pretty bad, I'll gladly take it.

[UMFan83]

Edmonds has been pretty bad in July

if an 825 OPS is pretty bad, I'll gladly take it.

 

Which is strangely better than Ibanez's season numbers. That said, at least Ibanez is healthy and would probably be counted on to be healthy.

[Ding Dong Johnson]

Edmonds has been pretty bad in July

if an 825 OPS is pretty bad, I'll gladly take it.

 

Which is strangely better than Ibanez's season numbers. That said, at least Ibanez is healthy and would probably be counted on to be healthy.

I still prefer the Edmonds/Johnson platoon

[JeffH]

This is looking WAY, WAY, WAY too far forward and doing so with an optimistic viewpoint (which, you may have noticed, is not my specialty), but here goes...

 

DH in the AL park during the World Series.

[dew1679666265]

Edmonds has been pretty bad in July

if an 825 OPS is pretty bad, I'll gladly take it.

 

Which is strangely better than Ibanez's season numbers. That said, at least Ibanez is healthy and would probably be counted on to be healthy.

I still prefer the Edmonds/Johnson platoon

 

If Edmonds is healthy. If that's the case, I don't want any part of Ibanez.

 

But, if he comes very cheaply (again, Hart and Adkins perhaps) he'd allow us to not have to play Reed against righties or Pie should Edmonds go down for an extended period of time (more likely than most, but granted not a guarantee).

[dew1679666265]

This is looking WAY, WAY, WAY too far forward and doing so with an optimistic viewpoint (which, you may have noticed, is not my specialty), but here goes...

 

DH in the AL park during the World Series.

 

Who is this optimistic person posting in place of JeffH and what did you do to the real one? :wink:

 

 

Honestly, though, Ibanez would be terrific for the DH role. I wouldn't acquire him just for that, though.

[Elrhino]

So people have gone from not wanting Jim Edmonds on the team no matter what, to believing he's going to continue hitting 130 OPS+ for the next two months (hopefully more). That bandwagon filled up pretty quick.

 

Ibanez has proven to be a pretty dependable and steady 120 OPS+ player the last three years. Whether it's a bad move or not would depend on the price, but there's no question he could upgrade the roster. Between waiting for the other shoe to drop on the Edmonds/Reed platoon, Soriano's nagging injury problems and Kosuke's 2 month slump (hopefully he's starting to dig his way out of it), I'm happy to see the Cubs looking for another outfielder. I like DeRo, but he's been playing entirely too much rightfield.

Edited July 30, 2008 by Elrhino

[JeffH]

Isn't it a shame that it took Lou Piniella to make Jim Hendry understand that offense counts?

[RammyFanny]

Ibanez, a free agent after this season, is owed only about $2.2 million. But the M's want two quality prospects from the Mets for a two-month rental. The Cubs also are interested, but perhaps not as motivated as the Mets.

 

The Diamondbacks had early interest in Ibanez, but their need for him has diminished — they're playing Conor Jackson in left field and Chad Tracy at first base while awaiting the return of right fielder Justin Upton from a left oblique strain in 7 to 10 days.

 

The Mariners do not want to move Ibanez for less than the value of the two premium draft picks they would receive if they offered him arbitration and he left as a free agent. But Lee Pelekoudas, the team's interim general manager, surely does not want to get shut out at the unrestricted trade deadline when he is trying to earn the job permanently.

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/8391628?MSNHPHMA

[Ding Dong Johnson]

So people have gone from not wanting Jim Edmonds on the team no matter what, to believing he's going to continue hitting 130 OPS+ for the next two months (hopefully more). That bandwagon filled up pretty quick.

none of that has happened that I'm aware of

[Bobson Dugnutt]

I would stand outside Wrigley Field with tears of joy streaming down my face and hug everyone that walked by if the Cubs added Adam Dunn to their lineup. However, I don't see that happening, at least unless Mark Cuban is the owner come this off-season. Instead, I think Raul Ibanez would be a nice addition.

 

Like JeffH said, it could, in the event that the Cubs reach the World Series, eliminate a potential advantage that the opposing AL team would have in their home park. He's not an enormous upgrade over what we have, but if Edmonds is gone for any significant stretch, it could hurt. I also wouldn't be too upset cutting ties with Daryle Ward, as I think Fontenot can be considered a more-than-adequate left-handed bat off the bench, and whoever is not starting out of Ibanez, Edmonds, and Fukudome on a particular day could also be counted on as solid bench bats.

 

Of course, I'm not willing to sell the farm for Ibanez, but if he could be had for relatively cheap, and possibly net us a compensation pick in the off-season to partially offset what we'd give up, I think this could be a good idea.

[davell]

Probably has been mentioned somewhere, but I can't find it right now. Anyway, Heyman says 2 NL teams(unnamed) are interested in Dunn. I apologize if this is somewhere else, but figure it's probably noteworthy at the least.

[nilodnayr]

Ibanez, a free agent after this season, is owed only about $2.2 million. But the M's want two quality prospects from the Mets for a two-month rental. The Cubs also are interested, but perhaps not as motivated as the Mets.

 

The Diamondbacks had early interest in Ibanez, but their need for him has diminished — they're playing Conor Jackson in left field and Chad Tracy at first base while awaiting the return of right fielder Justin Upton from a left oblique strain in 7 to 10 days.

 

The Mariners do not want to move Ibanez for less than the value of the two premium draft picks they would receive if they offered him arbitration and he left as a free agent. But Lee Pelekoudas, the team's interim general manager, surely does not want to get shut out at the unrestricted trade deadline when he is trying to earn the job permanently.

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/8391628?MSNHPHMA

 

Yes, but since if we acquired him, we would get the compensation picks. When throwing around names that we might send to them it has to be better than what they would get in the first couple rounds but we need to think about guys that might be taking up spots on the 40 man or are eligible and might be taken in the Rule V draft.

[RammyFanny]

Probably has been mentioned somewhere, but I can't find it right now. Anyway, Heyman says 2 NL teams(unnamed) are interested in Dunn. I apologize if this is somewhere else, but figure it's probably noteworthy at the least.

 

Minor correction:

An NL Source reported that two teams are interested in Dunn. Not Two NL teams are interested in Dunn. So, it may be AL teams too.

[E.J.]

Haha. and here comes the Dunn discussions and rumors. Wouldn't be a trade deadline without the Dunn talks.

[Schwarber Fan]

Haha. and here comes the Dunn discussions and rumors. Wouldn't be a trade deadline without the Dunn talks.

 

All that's missing is ManCrushOnNomar

[davell]

Probably has been mentioned somewhere, but I can't find it right now. Anyway, Heyman says 2 NL teams(unnamed) are interested in Dunn. I apologize if this is somewhere else, but figure it's probably noteworthy at the least.

 

Minor correction:

An NL Source reported that two teams are interested in Dunn. Not Two NL teams are interested in Dunn. So, it may be AL teams too.

 

Crud, you're right. I guess I automatically took it to mean 2 NL teams. It'd be nice anyway. Honestly though, I wonder if Jocketty and/or Baker would have an issue dealing with us, even taking the division factor out? Anyone have any idea whether or not Hendry and Jocketty have any sort of history together?

[Elrhino]

Brewers are going to end up trading for Dunn, as a defensive upgrade over Braun.

[RammyFanny]

UPDATE

 

The Mariners continue to ask the Mets for pitcher Jon Niese and a second prospect for Raul Ibanez. And unless the price comes down, the Mets plan to pass and wait to see which bats clear waivers in August, according to clubs that have spoken with them.

 

The Cubs, meanwhile, are resisting attempts by Seattle to get Felix Pie and a second prospect for Ibanez. The Cubs almost certainly would be willing to offer a couple of prospects in the Sam Fuld strata. But teams that have spoken with the Cubs say they've shown very little sense of urgency to overpay to add a final piece or two of late.

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/blog/index?entryID=3511509&name=mlb_trade_deadline

 

Sounds like we're doing the right thing, and will probably give them a take it or leave it offer.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

LOL, Pie and a second prospect for Ibanez. When you factor in defense, Pie's probably better than him alone, never mind age, contract, player cost, all that jazz.