Gammons mentioned Wolf, Burnett, Meche as possible targets

[Post Count Padder]

I sent an e-mail to Jason Churchill (prospectinsider.com) since he claims to have sources in the Cubs FO. I asked him if Hendry was pursuing any specific SP. Here's what he said.

 

Actually, yeah.

 

They've been linked to Nationals righty Tim Redding, Blue Jays righty AJ Burnett, Tigers lefty Kenny Rogers, A's righty Joe Blanton and Rangers righties Vicente Padilla and Kevin Millwood.

 

Of course, they aren't the only ones, and TBJ and OAK aren't selling quite yet.

 

Jason A. Churchill

 

Haha @ most of those guys, especially Tim Redding.

If Hendry acquires Redding or Rogers and says he's done dealing I'm punching someone in the face.

[TruffleShuffle]

tim redding???

[don_kessinger_was_good]

You know who else is a better reliever than they've shown this year with great stuff? Mike Wuertz

 

If you're equating Mike Wuertz to Rafael Betancourt, you're a fool.

 

i agree. betancourt is a middle reliever who's 33 years old and is making $5.4M over the next two years, and has been horrendous this year. his LD% is a disturbingly-high 25.9%, and he gives up twice as many fly balls as he does ground balls, which is really a bad thing if you were to put him in a place like wrigley field. his great numbers last year were mostly a result of an unsustainable BABIP and LOB% (86.4!) along with a really abnormal home run rate - only 6 all year, or just 4.7% of his fly balls. he pounds the strike zone, but his ability to throw strikes hasn't been as good this year.

 

meanwhile, wuertz is a pitcher who allows more ground balls than fly balls. his command is more spotty, but he has had a solid K-rate up to this year, and his velocity is still as good as it has been in previous years. he threw his fastball on 40% of his pitches in 2006 and 2007, but only 26.5% this year, while his slider rate has increased from 42.6% in 2006 to 62.1% this year. his pitching coach and catchers should probably be working with him on throwing a more even mix of pitches, rather than relying so heavily on the breaking pitch that often bends out of the strike zone. Still, given his age (29) and cheapness ($860k), combined with the profile of a ground ball pitcher at a hitter's park, he provides more value for the dollar than betancourt.

 

i'm assuming that's what you meant when you said anyone comparing the two guys was a fool, correct?

 

You're more than a fool, and you're always antagonistic, to boot. Look, relievers are notoriously streaky. You're willing to dismiss Betancourt as a loser due to two bad months, but in the same breath, you're willing to dismiss Wuertz' underperformance--simply because he's cheaper? Betancourt is so far superior to anything Wuertz has (or has even the remotest chance of) accomplishing, it is absurd. Over the last five years, the guy has an ERA+ of 206, 111, 150, 119, and 312. 312!!!!!! You wouldn't take the option of him having a bad couple months is all, in favor of keeping Mike Freaking Wuertz?

 

Yes, you are a fool.

 

So you swap the two, and throw in Colvin, who is a complete bust. So much so, that I'm fairly certain Cleveland wouldn't take him, so we'd need to offer someone with a bit rosier future, like Patterson or perhaps Ceda. And I'd do that alternative in a heartbeat, too.

 

Betancourt, Marmol and Wood = lockdown. Hendry could then do a follow-on trade to move Howry to someone like the Yankees (who could desperately use him), and maybe we could get an Ian Kennedy for the future. Howry plus Pie?

[badnews]

You know who else is a better reliever than they've shown this year with great stuff? Mike Wuertz

 

If you're equating Mike Wuertz to Rafael Betancourt, you're a fool.

 

i agree. betancourt is a middle reliever who's 33 years old and is making $5.4M over the next two years, and has been horrendous this year. his LD% is a disturbingly-high 25.9%, and he gives up twice as many fly balls as he does ground balls, which is really a bad thing if you were to put him in a place like wrigley field. his great numbers last year were mostly a result of an unsustainable BABIP and LOB% (86.4!) along with a really abnormal home run rate - only 6 all year, or just 4.7% of his fly balls. he pounds the strike zone, but his ability to throw strikes hasn't been as good this year.

 

meanwhile, wuertz is a pitcher who allows more ground balls than fly balls. his command is more spotty, but he has had a solid K-rate up to this year, and his velocity is still as good as it has been in previous years. he threw his fastball on 40% of his pitches in 2006 and 2007, but only 26.5% this year, while his slider rate has increased from 42.6% in 2006 to 62.1% this year. his pitching coach and catchers should probably be working with him on throwing a more even mix of pitches, rather than relying so heavily on the breaking pitch that often bends out of the strike zone. Still, given his age (29) and cheapness ($860k), combined with the profile of a ground ball pitcher at a hitter's park, he provides more value for the dollar than betancourt.

 

i'm assuming that's what you meant when you said anyone comparing the two guys was a fool, correct?

 

You're more than a fool, and you're always antagonistic, to boot. Look, relievers are notoriously streaky. You're willing to dismiss Betancourt as a loser due to two bad months, but in the same breath, you're willing to dismiss Wuertz' underperformance--simply because he's cheaper? Betancourt is so far superior to anything Wuertz has (or has even the remotest chance of) accomplishing, it is absurd. Over the last five years, the guy has an ERA+ of 206, 111, 150, 119, and 312. 312!!!!!! You wouldn't take the option of him having a bad couple months is all, in favor of keeping Mike Freaking Wuertz?

 

Yes, you are a fool.

 

So you swap the two, and throw in Colvin, who is a complete bust. So much so, that I'm fairly certain Cleveland wouldn't take him, so we'd need to offer someone with a bit rosier future, like Patterson or perhaps Ceda. And I'd do that alternative in a heartbeat, too.

 

Betancourt, Marmol and Wood = lockdown. Hendry could then do a follow-on trade to move Howry to someone like the Yankees (who could desperately use him), and maybe we could get an Ian Kennedy for the future. Howry plus Pie?

 

You shouldn't call other people fools and then propose that kind of trade with the Yankees realistically, no offense. When you start calling names your post has to be 100% above reproach and yours isn't.

 

The fact that relievers are so up and down is a good reason not to buy into Betancourt's resurgence. What if you bought high after Juan Rincon's 2006? Bob Howry put up some gaudy numbers with the Indians that he hasn't replicated. Betancourt's 2007 looks fluky to me. I want to know what he'll do in the future, not what he did in the past, I think Wuertz probably has a better chance of putting up a 312 ERA+ than Betancourt again. Also you're cheating a little, the year he put up a 206 ERA+ he didn't throw that many innings, the rest of it is some good years and one fluky looking year.

 

I'm not with you on one year, because your argument basically hinges on that 2007. Otherwise we're not blown-away type numbers. Aside from the 2007 year of Betancourt's his ERA+ numbers are in line with David Riske's over the same time period. Are we going crazy over David Riske? Riske ERA+ 192, 117, 135, 122, 191.

 

You're putting too much into one year. Too many relievers put up amazing ERAs to buy that much into one year. Look at 2007: Peter Moylan, J.C Romero, Lee Gardner, Jeremy Accardo, Jared Burton, Justin Hampson, etc. Denys Reyes had an 0.89 ERA in 2006. Neal Cotts 1.94 ERA in 2005. So forth.

 

I guess I'm a fool too. You take out Betancourt's best year and it looks good but not "lockdown."

[TruffleShuffle]

boy if you're going to resort to personal attacks, at least be right about something.

[inari]

boy if you're going to resort to personal attacks, at least be right about something.

 

Pretty well said. I think it's fairly obvious that don kessinger is just a joke account.

[don_kessinger_was_good]

boy if you're going to resort to personal attacks, at least be right about something.

 

1. What wasn't I right about?

2. I like how it's fine to belittle my original idea, but when I retort back, it becomes personal attacks. The double standards at this site are a joke. Have fun, at least Al's site is more evenhanded.

[CubColtPacer]

Meche is definitely an upgrade over Marquis.

 

Are you sure? Their career numbers are pretty much exactly the same. Sure, Meche was very good last year, but Marquis has been very good in some years too. They are both players who have always had better stuff then their actual production, and most of that has been due to stubbornness on their parts. I don't see anything more than maybe a tiny upgrade, and that's before you consider Meche's enormous contract.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

boy if you're going to resort to personal attacks, at least be right about something.

 

Pretty well said. I think it's fairly obvious that don kessinger is just a joke account.

 

He's been around a long time, and I'm at near 100% certainty that it isn't a joke account.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

The Houston Chronicle had an article today on the Astros and their struggles. In the article, Brian McTaggert mentioned that if the Astros become buyers, that they would target pitching. Here is a list of pitchers he believes could be available.

 

Aaron Cook, Colorado Rockies: Defending NL champs are stuck in last place, but Cook is 8-3 with a 3.16 ERA in 13 starts.

 

Livan Hernandez, Minnesota Twins: What would a trade deadline be without mention of Hernandez, who's 6-3 with a hefty 5.32 ERA?

 

Kevin Millwood, Texas Rangers: He's owed $23 million over the next two seasons, which will scare off most clubs.

 

Vicente Padilla, Texas Rangers: Like Millwood, he's owed $23 million the next two years. But he hasn't pitched poorly.

 

C.C. Sabathia, Cleveland Indians: His team could still make a run. Falter, however, and the struggling lefty could be shopped.

 

Randy Wolf, San Diego Padres: Wolf has been good at pitcher-friendly Petco Park but shaky on the road.

 

 

Link.

[TruffleShuffle]

boy if you're going to resort to personal attacks, at least be right about something.

 

1. What wasn't I right about?

2. I like how it's fine to belittle my original idea, but when I retort back, it becomes personal attacks.

 

no, i think it becomes a personal attack when you write "you are a fool" toward another poster.

[TheDude]

If the trade deadline rolls around and the Cubs are still at or near the top of MLB win/loss record, you can bet your ass Hendry will overpay for a starter to make what would look like the Cubs best chances at a WS in a long time. I do not think Hendry will hesitate to give away future pieces for the here and now.

 

I would only agree with this type of move if the starter was a proven recent past or present winner, and someone who would fill a 3-man playoff rotation. Sabathia and Burnett are good names for #2 or #3.

 

This Cubs team looks good right now, and if they still look this good 4 weeks from now, I think Hendry has to go all-in for a WS run, even if it means knowingly over-paying in prospect value for a rental. It's what Lou wants, Hendry wants, and all but the safest and most conservative (including the most logical) fans want. Obviously long-term it isn't the right move, but this franchise is so starved for a WS I think it's decision makers have to go for it.

 

The trick is to make sure the name is really worth it. Meche, Wolf, etc do not qualify. It has to be a 3-man rotation candidate.

[Jehrico]

I sent an e-mail to Jason Churchill (prospectinsider.com) since he claims to have sources in the Cubs FO. I asked him if Hendry was pursuing any specific SP. Here's what he said.

 

Actually, yeah.

 

They've been linked to Nationals righty Tim Redding, Blue Jays righty AJ Burnett, Tigers lefty Kenny Rogers, A's righty Joe Blanton and Rangers righties Vicente Padilla and Kevin Millwood.

 

Of course, they aren't the only ones, and TBJ and OAK aren't selling quite yet.

 

Jason A. Churchill

 

Haha @ most of those guys, especially Tim Redding.

Since the break of last year (when he came back from being out for most of the last 3 years with injuries), Redding's put in over 150 innings, 3.88 ERA, with a 1.38 WHIP. His BBs are down and Ks up from last year, thought not still great obviously. Marquis's career best WHIP is 1.35, but is currently around 1.65. I don't think I need to rehash his ERA or other peripherals. Considering we wouldn't have to give up Pie or anyone like that, I could live with Redding so long as he displaced Marquis from the rotation. If he can't stay healthy (his main problem), then Marshall (or Hill if he gets his act straight) replaces him. Either way, we upgrade from Marquis, who is a good bet to physically last the year and not go down (while ironically taking us down). If we can't get a bonafide # 2 starter (which should be our #1 priority), then I would look for a *cheap* option to improve the #5 slot in the rotation (assuming someone in house hasn't stepped up and pushed Marquis out yet). Redding is an upgrade over Marquis, and should be as cheap as any other alternative out there.

 

That said, if I'm Washington, I know I can't get anything good for Redding with his injury history, so I ride him while he's pitching decent.

[17 Seconds]

I sent an e-mail to Jason Churchill (prospectinsider.com) since he claims to have sources in the Cubs FO. I asked him if Hendry was pursuing any specific SP. Here's what he said.

 

Actually, yeah.

 

They've been linked to Nationals righty Tim Redding, Blue Jays righty AJ Burnett, Tigers lefty Kenny Rogers, A's righty Joe Blanton and Rangers righties Vicente Padilla and Kevin Millwood.

 

Of course, they aren't the only ones, and TBJ and OAK aren't selling quite yet.

 

Jason A. Churchill

 

Haha @ most of those guys, especially Tim Redding.

Since the break of last year (when he came back from being out for most of the last 3 years with injuries), Redding's put in over 150 innings, 3.88 ERA, with a 1.38 WHIP. His BBs are down and Ks up from last year, thought not still great obviously. Marquis's career best WHIP is 1.35, but is currently around 1.65. I don't think I need to rehash his ERA or other peripherals. Considering we wouldn't have to give up Pie or anyone like that, I could live with Redding so long as he displaced Marquis from the rotation. If he can't stay healthy (his main problem), then Marshall (or Hill if he gets his act straight) replaces him. Either way, we upgrade from Marquis, who is a good bet to physically last the year and not go down (while ironically taking us down). If we can't get a bonafide # 2 starter (which should be our #1 priority), then I would look for a *cheap* option to improve the #5 slot in the rotation (assuming someone in house hasn't stepped up and pushed Marquis out yet). Redding is an upgrade over Marquis, and should be as cheap as any other alternative out there.

 

That said, if I'm Washington, I know I can't get anything good for Redding with his injury history, so I ride him while he's pitching decent.

 

You act as though a 1.38 WHIP is good. Redding might be a small upgrade over Marquis, but what would be the point? The Cubs don't need another mediocre back of the rotaiton type starter, they need a front of the rotation guy. Redding isn't even better than Marshall.

[Jehrico]

I sent an e-mail to Jason Churchill (prospectinsider.com) since he claims to have sources in the Cubs FO. I asked him if Hendry was pursuing any specific SP. Here's what he said.

 

Actually, yeah.

 

They've been linked to Nationals righty Tim Redding, Blue Jays righty AJ Burnett, Tigers lefty Kenny Rogers, A's righty Joe Blanton and Rangers righties Vicente Padilla and Kevin Millwood.

 

Of course, they aren't the only ones, and TBJ and OAK aren't selling quite yet.

 

Jason A. Churchill

 

Haha @ most of those guys, especially Tim Redding.

Since the break of last year (when he came back from being out for most of the last 3 years with injuries), Redding's put in over 150 innings, 3.88 ERA, with a 1.38 WHIP. His BBs are down and Ks up from last year, thought not still great obviously. Marquis's career best WHIP is 1.35, but is currently around 1.65. I don't think I need to rehash his ERA or other peripherals. Considering we wouldn't have to give up Pie or anyone like that, I could live with Redding so long as he displaced Marquis from the rotation. If he can't stay healthy (his main problem), then Marshall (or Hill if he gets his act straight) replaces him. Either way, we upgrade from Marquis, who is a good bet to physically last the year and not go down (while ironically taking us down). If we can't get a bonafide # 2 starter (which should be our #1 priority), then I would look for a *cheap* option to improve the #5 slot in the rotation (assuming someone in house hasn't stepped up and pushed Marquis out yet). Redding is an upgrade over Marquis, and should be as cheap as any other alternative out there.

 

That said, if I'm Washington, I know I can't get anything good for Redding with his injury history, so I ride him while he's pitching decent.

 

You act as though a 1.38 WHIP is good. Redding might be a small upgrade over Marquis, but what would be the point? The Cubs don't need another mediocre back of the rotaiton type starter, they need a front of the rotation guy. Redding isn't even better than Marshall.

No, I don't act as though that WHIP is good. I said the WHIP is an upgrade over Marquis. Some people on here are acting like a 1.38 WHIP from a pitcher is tantamount to Dusty giving Macias or Neifi a starting job. It's not good, but it's not as bad as people are making him out to be. Read my post again. I said IF we can't get a bonafide #2, then the next option should be booting Marquis out. Redding could possibly be the cheapest replacement out there for Marquis. I'd give up alot for a #2, but I wouldn't give up alot just to push Marquis aside, and that's why I would be open to looking into Redding. I'm just trying to temper the unfounded attitudes that seem to think Redding is as bad as someone like Trachsel when he's not.

[NCCubFan]

But if we can't get a legitimate #2 and just want to push Marquis aside there's no need to make a trade at all. We can do that internally (Marshall).

[CyHawk_Cub]

But if we can't get a legitimate #2 and just want to push Marquis aside there's no need to make a trade at all. We can do that internally (Marshall).

 

I think most of us agree with this sentiment... I see what Jehrico is getting at though too.. I think the general consensus here is that the Cubs need to get a solid #1b/2 type guy. If they can't get that done, no reason to trade a way pieces for yet another #4/5.

[inari]

What I don't get is why he wants Redding when it's quite possible he's worse than Marquis.

[Jehrico]

But if we can't get a legitimate #2 and just want to push Marquis aside there's no need to make a trade at all. We can do that internally (Marshall).

In the post he was quoting, I noted Marshall or Hill are still options. I'd prefer one of those guys get the call first (and soon) but who knows what Lou and Hendry think about Marshall for sure, and if they'll ever trust Hill again this year.

 

I think some people are confusing my intent...I don't want them to go out and make a move for Redding, but I also think the sentiment that he's Trachsel-bad is flat-out wrong. I wouldn't be mad if they made a move for him while giving little if anything up.

[Post Count Padder]

I read on Rotoworld that Meche laughs off trade rumors to the Cubs and has a no-trade clause that he doesn't intend to waive.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

I read on Rotoworld that Meche laughs off trade rumors to the Cubs and has a no-trade clause that he doesn't intend to waive.

 

I'll have to send him a thank-you card.

[Jehrico]

I read on Rotoworld that Meche laughs off trade rumors to the Cubs and has a no-trade clause that he doesn't intend to waive.

What more can you say than "to each his own."

 

Have fun losing 90+ games, Gil.

[JonnyRed]

If the trade deadline rolls around and the Cubs are still at or near the top of MLB win/loss record, you can bet your ass Hendry will overpay for a starter to make what would look like the Cubs best chances at a WS in a long time. I do not think Hendry will hesitate to give away future pieces for the here and now.

 

I would only agree with this type of move if the starter was a proven recent past or present winner, and someone who would fill a 3-man playoff rotation. Sabathia and Burnett are good names for #2 or #3.

 

This Cubs team looks good right now, and if they still look this good 4 weeks from now, I think Hendry has to go all-in for a WS run, even if it means knowingly over-paying in prospect value for a rental. It's what Lou wants, Hendry wants, and all but the safest and most conservative (including the most logical) fans want. Obviously long-term it isn't the right move, but this franchise is so starved for a WS I think it's decision makers have to go for it.

 

The trick is to make sure the name is really worth it. Meche, Wolf, etc do not qualify. It has to be a 3-man rotation candidate.

 

I don't care if Hendry has to give up:

 

a) Our entire minor league system

b) The Chicago 2016 Olympics bid

c) My 401(k) savings

 

if it results in a World Series championship for the Cubs this year!

[TarzanJoeWallis]

If the trade deadline rolls around and the Cubs are still at or near the top of MLB win/loss record, you can bet your ass Hendry will overpay for a starter to make what would look like the Cubs best chances at a WS in a long time. I do not think Hendry will hesitate to give away future pieces for the here and now.

 

I would only agree with this type of move if the starter was a proven recent past or present winner, and someone who would fill a 3-man playoff rotation. Sabathia and Burnett are good names for #2 or #3.

 

This Cubs team looks good right now, and if they still look this good 4 weeks from now, I think Hendry has to go all-in for a WS run, even if it means knowingly over-paying in prospect value for a rental. It's what Lou wants, Hendry wants, and all but the safest and most conservative (including the most logical) fans want. Obviously long-term it isn't the right move, but this franchise is so starved for a WS I think it's decision makers have to go for it.

 

The trick is to make sure the name is really worth it. Meche, Wolf, etc do not qualify. It has to be a 3-man rotation candidate.

 

I don't care if Hendry has to give up:

 

a) Our entire minor league system

b) The Chicago 2016 Olympics bid

c) My 401(k) savings

 

if it results in a World Series championship for the Cubs this year!

 

I'd even be willing to throw in the 401(k) savings of JonnyRed's wife!

[GoCubsGo1679625768]

I'd go after Rich Harden personally, and roll the dice he stays healthy. Don't Hendry and Beane have a good relationship?