Gammons mentioned Wolf, Burnett, Meche as possible targets

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

If Cleveland wants to deal C.C., we can't really match what other teams would be able to offer.

 

I agree. Our only hope is that other teams bow out due to price or that other teams want to use their chips on other pieces.

 

Or that they don't want to pay for a 3 month rental, yeah.

 

And this all assumes they are far enough out of contention to warrant a deal.

 

I think the 100-year thing and impending sale and all will motivate Hendry to pull out the stops. For that reason the Cubs may end up over paying for a pitcher like Sabbathia.

 

While I'd prefer not to deplete the farm system, there is little down there that excites me, so if we give up a bunch of it, oh well.

 

If we overpay for Sabbathia or Harden, then that's fine. If we over pay for Millwood or Meche or Wolf, I'd be uberpissed!

[Transmogrified Tiger]

If Cleveland wants to deal C.C., we can't really match what other teams would be able to offer.

 

I think this depends on what they want. The list of teams who would be willing to deal a player with as much MLB success as Rich Hill is quite short.

[USSoccer]

If Cleveland wants to deal C.C., we can't really match what other teams would be able to offer.

 

this is probably true, but after seeing what the twins got for santana, i wonder if you're really going to have to back the truck up for 2 months of sabathia.

 

Don't underestimate trade deadline hysteria. If you get a couple of stupid/reactionary front offices, you could easily end up hauling in a king's ransom.

 

And given our situation, I would totally live with Hendry overpaying in prospects for 3 months of Sabathia.

[CyHawk_Cub]

If the deadline rolls around and Harden is still healthy (I know, big if) I'd much rather take a shot on him than some of those other stiffs. The only one of those 3 that interests me at all is Burnett and he's kinda "eh". Even when he's healthy you never know what you're going to get.

 

I agree. Harden doesn't come with a big contract, so if you deal for him and he gets hurt, you're only out the players. If he is healthy, he's outstanding and you have him through 2009 when you can make a better decision on if you want to invest in his health or take the draft picks. If he completely falls apart, you don't even have to pay him next year(although the 7 million option isn't a terrible gamble for someone of his abilities).

 

Not to beat a dead horse, but yes, THIS... I'm not interested in a #3 or #4 type guy... I'd prefer we get someone who could be in the post-season rotation...w/ potential to be a shut-down kind of guy. Yes, I know it's not NECESSARY to get someone like that to succeed in the post-season, but I know I'd feel more confident if we had someone like that...

[Little Slide Rooter]

I wouldnt be opposed to mortgaging the farm system for someone like CC, although I dont trust Harden to stay healthy if they planned on signing him to a long term deal. 5 years with a 1-2 Zambrano-Sabathia combo would be very fun to watch, dont you think?

 

The question is, what do we have that theyd want? Grady Sizemore has the center field porition locked up, so Felix and Colvin wont be that appealing to them. Wed have to throw them some arms, maybe Veal, Ceda, also Hill/Marshall if they still have any value. Even at age 21 or 22, I dont know if Pawelek is still of any value. Cedeno could be mildly appealing to them, maybe even Hoffpauir if he can put together some good numbers if given the chance in the bigs.

[don_kessinger_was_good]

How about a more modest trade with Cleveland? Rafael Betancourt is a much better reliever than he has shown so far this year. I wonder if he has "Latroy Hawkins" disease--a guy that excels in a setup role when there is no pressure, but wilts when he is forced to become the go-to guy. We do need another setup man to take some pressure off of Marmol, and Betancourt has great stuff.

 

Wuertz and Colvin for Betancourt?

[Little Slide Rooter]

Why would we give up Colvin for a guy we dont really need? If we could get a top of the line starter, than go all out, but Betencort really isnt any better than what we have.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

You know who else is a better reliever than they've shown this year with great stuff? Mike Wuertz

[Hairyducked Idiot]

"Josh Vitters, Tyler Colvin, Jose Ceda and Jeff Samardzija"

 

The only one on that list I'd even miss is Ceda. If this is what it takes for Sabathia, I'd feel bad about ripping off the Indians so badly.

[Little Slide Rooter]

"Josh Vitters, Tyler Colvin, Jose Ceda and Jeff Samardzija"

 

The only one on that list I'd even miss is Ceda. If this is what it takes for Sabathia, I'd feel bad about ripping off the Indians so badly.

 

I dont know if anyone really wants the most over hyped 5th round pick in history anymore. We might have to replace him with Veal.

[don_kessinger_was_good]

You know who else is a better reliever than they've shown this year with great stuff? Mike Wuertz

 

If you're equating Mike Wuertz to Rafael Betancourt, you're a fool.

 

Tyler Colvin will not be missed, yet another Cubs 1st round bust. Wilken needs to go.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

You know who else is a better reliever than they've shown this year with great stuff? Mike Wuertz

 

If you're equating Mike Wuertz to Rafael Betancourt, you're a fool.

 

Tyler Colvin will not be missed, yet another Cubs 1st round bust. Wilken needs to go.

 

They're not so different that it's worth trading one for the other and us adding one of the few commodities we have in the lower levels of the farm system right now. Our bullpen isn't in that bad of shape. Betancourt could be damaged goods anyways, it looks like that career high workload last year has worn him down.

[TruffleShuffle]

You know who else is a better reliever than they've shown this year with great stuff? Mike Wuertz

 

If you're equating Mike Wuertz to Rafael Betancourt, you're a fool.

 

i agree. betancourt is a middle reliever who's 33 years old and is making $5.4M over the next two years, and has been horrendous this year. his LD% is a disturbingly-high 25.9%, and he gives up twice as many fly balls as he does ground balls, which is really a bad thing if you were to put him in a place like wrigley field. his great numbers last year were mostly a result of an unsustainable BABIP and LOB% (86.4!) along with a really abnormal home run rate - only 6 all year, or just 4.7% of his fly balls. he pounds the strike zone, but his ability to throw strikes hasn't been as good this year.

 

meanwhile, wuertz is a pitcher who allows more ground balls than fly balls. his command is more spotty, but he has had a solid K-rate up to this year, and his velocity is still as good as it has been in previous years. he threw his fastball on 40% of his pitches in 2006 and 2007, but only 26.5% this year, while his slider rate has increased from 42.6% in 2006 to 62.1% this year. his pitching coach and catchers should probably be working with him on throwing a more even mix of pitches, rather than relying so heavily on the breaking pitch that often bends out of the strike zone. Still, given his age (29) and cheapness ($860k), combined with the profile of a ground ball pitcher at a hitter's park, he provides more value for the dollar than betancourt.

 

i'm assuming that's what you meant when you said anyone comparing the two guys was a fool, correct?

[CyHawk_Cub]

You know who else is a better reliever than they've shown this year with great stuff? Mike Wuertz

 

If you're equating Mike Wuertz to Rafael Betancourt, you're a fool.

 

i agree. betancourt is a middle reliever who's 33 years old and is making $5.4M over the next two years, and has been horrendous this year. his LD% is a disturbingly-high 25.9%, and he gives up twice as many fly balls as he does ground balls, which is really a bad thing if you were to put him in a place like wrigley field. his great numbers last year were mostly a result of an unsustainable BABIP and LOB% (86.4!) along with a really abnormal home run rate - only 6 all year, or just 4.7% of his fly balls. he pounds the strike zone, but his ability to throw strikes hasn't been as good this year.

 

meanwhile, wuertz is a pitcher who allows more ground balls than fly balls. his command is more spotty, but he has had a solid K-rate up to this year, and his velocity is still as good as it has been in previous years. he threw his fastball on 40% of his pitches in 2006 and 2007, but only 26.5% this year, while his slider rate has increased from 42.6% in 2006 to 62.1% this year. his pitching coach and catchers should probably be working with him on throwing a more even mix of pitches, rather than relying so heavily on the breaking pitch that often bends out of the strike zone. Still, given his age (29) and cheapness ($860k), combined with the profile of a ground ball pitcher at a hitter's park, he provides more value for the dollar than betancourt.

 

i'm assuming that's what you meant when you said anyone comparing the two guys was a fool, correct?

 

PLUS, "Betancourt" is the same surname as the guitar player from the band Extreme...so he has that going for him. Hard to apply a metric to that!

[Jehrico]

You know who else is a better reliever than they've shown this year with great stuff? Mike Wuertz

 

If you're equating Mike Wuertz to Rafael Betancourt, you're a fool.

 

i agree. betancourt is a middle reliever who's 33 years old and is making $5.4M over the next two years, and has been horrendous this year. his LD% is a disturbingly-high 25.9%, and he gives up twice as many fly balls as he does ground balls, which is really a bad thing if you were to put him in a place like wrigley field. his great numbers last year were mostly a result of an unsustainable BABIP and LOB% (86.4!) along with a really abnormal home run rate - only 6 all year, or just 4.7% of his fly balls. he pounds the strike zone, but his ability to throw strikes hasn't been as good this year.

 

meanwhile, wuertz is a pitcher who allows more ground balls than fly balls. his command is more spotty, but he has had a solid K-rate up to this year, and his velocity is still as good as it has been in previous years. he threw his fastball on 40% of his pitches in 2006 and 2007, but only 26.5% this year, while his slider rate has increased from 42.6% in 2006 to 62.1% this year. his pitching coach and catchers should probably be working with him on throwing a more even mix of pitches, rather than relying so heavily on the breaking pitch that often bends out of the strike zone. Still, given his age (29) and cheapness ($860k), combined with the profile of a ground ball pitcher at a hitter's park, he provides more value for the dollar than betancourt.

 

i'm assuming that's what you meant when you said anyone comparing the two guys was a fool, correct?

 

PLUS, "Betancourt" is the same surname as the guitar player from the band Extreme...so he has that going for him. Hard to apply a metric to that!

That and the fact that Betancourt doesn't rhyme with Worst.

[badnews]

I'd still like Harden more than Sabathia.

[SouthSideRyan]

PLUS, "Betancourt" is the same surname as the guitar player from the band Extreme...so he has that going for him. Hard to apply a metric to that!

That and the fact that Betancourt doesn't rhyme with Worst.

 

Neither does Wuertz.

[Post Count Padder]

Wolf is past his prime and is a health concern.

 

Meche isn't that good but may be an upgrade from Marquis.

 

Burnett is good IF healthy.

[inari]

Meche is definitely an upgrade over Marquis.

[17 Seconds]

 

Wuertz and Colvin for Betancourt?

 

Terrible.

[ZMovieman]

Regarding Sabathia, I think the Cubs could really have a shot and here's why:

 

1. As previously mentioned, look at what the Twins got for Santana. I'd imagine the deal would be close to it, given it being a deadline deal.

 

2. I've heard that, in order to maximize their return, the Indians would want to do a sign and trade similar to Santana. No source, but I thought I remembered hearing that (certainly would make sense). If this is the case, it would theoretically make an NL switch more appealing to the Indians (so they don't have to face him).

 

3. If #2 is true, Cubs might have the financial resources and the winning situation to sign Sabathia long term. Hendry seems to have been given the keys to do what it takes, so something like this would be the big splash he likes doing at the deadline. Sabathia would be forgoing free agency, but depending on what we throw at him and the situation in late July, I could definitely see it happening.

 

My guess is that the deal would be something along the lines of Hill/Gallagher, Ceda, Cedeno, and prospect or Hill/Gallagher, Ceda, and Vitters for Sabathia. Not saying it's going to happen, but it wouldn't shock me.

[17 Seconds]

I sent an e-mail to Jason Churchill (prospectinsider.com) since he claims to have sources in the Cubs FO. I asked him if Hendry was pursuing any specific SP. Here's what he said.

 

Actually, yeah.

 

They've been linked to Nationals righty Tim Redding, Blue Jays righty AJ Burnett, Tigers lefty Kenny Rogers, A's righty Joe Blanton and Rangers righties Vicente Padilla and Kevin Millwood.

 

Of course, they aren't the only ones, and TBJ and OAK aren't selling quite yet.

 

Jason A. Churchill

 

Haha @ most of those guys, especially Tim Redding.

[SouthSideRyan]

Oh man, we're totally gonna trade for Rogers.

[CUBZ99]

I sent an e-mail to Jason Churchill (prospectinsider.com) since he claims to have sources in the Cubs FO. I asked him if Hendry was pursuing any specific SP. Here's what he said.

 

Actually, yeah.

 

They've been linked to Nationals righty Tim Redding, Blue Jays righty AJ Burnett, Tigers lefty Kenny Rogers, A's righty Joe Blanton and Rangers righties Vicente Padilla and Kevin Millwood.

 

Of course, they aren't the only ones, and TBJ and OAK aren't selling quite yet.

 

Jason A. Churchill

 

Haha @ most of those guys, especially Tim Redding.

 

Hendry needs to wake up and realize this is 2008. It would be embarrassing if that is the actual list of his targets.

[17 Seconds]

I asked him about Harden or Sabathia:

 

I'd be shocked if they had enough to get CC or Harden. The industry sees too much Corey Patterson in Pie, although I think he's a little more like Curtis Granderson than he is Patterson, but the Cubs painted themselves into that corner by not giving him a legit shot.

 

Veal has lost some luster, Vitters can be traded (as a player to be named later) but few teams are going to value him enough in a trade scenario.

 

Gallagher would certainly have to be in a trade like that as the org's best arm, as would Donaldson and either Pie or Ceda.

 

That package might get the injury-plagued Harden, and I could see the Cubs doing it. Piniella is a short-term skipper and their window, while not microscopic, isn't long. They don't have many older players, but very few of them are young.

 

I think CC creates a bidding war, in which the Cubs cant win.

 

Jason A. Churchill