Minor League Discussion & Boxes 5-5-2008

[Outshined_One]

Box Scores

 

Iowa lost 16-7 Box Score

 

CF S. Fuld 1/3, R

LF M. Murton 2/4, R, RBI, K

3B C. Mcgehee 1/4, R

1B J. Fox 2/4, 2 R, RBI, 2B (10), HR (6), SB (3)

SP J. Berg 1.1 IP, 7 H, 9 ER, 0/3 K/BB, HR, WP, HBP, 2-2 GO-FO

RP C. Pignatiello 1.1 IP, 2 H, 1 ER, 2/0 K/BB, 1-1 GO-FO

 

Tennessee won 6-1 Box Score

 

LF M. Camp 3/5, 2 R, SB (5)

CF T. Colvin 2/5, 2 RBI, K

1B D. Deeds 0/5, 2 K

RF R. Harvey 1/3, BB, 2 K

SP J. Samardzija 5.2 IP, 4 H, 1 ER, 5/2 K/BB, WP, 7-4 GO-FO

 

Daytona won 9-1 Box Score

 

CF J. Wyatt 0/3, 2 BB, R

2B T. Thomas 2/4, BB, R, 3B (2)

DH T. Wright 1/4, BB, 2 R, RBI

C W. Castillo 1/4, R, RBI

LF R. Canzler 2/3, R, RBI, 3B (1)

LF Y. Carter 1/2, R, RBI

3B J. Lansford 2/4, 2 RBI, 2B (6)

SP E. Caridad 6.2 IP, 6 H, 1 ER, 1/0 K/BB, 10-9 GO-FO

RP J. Papelbon 1.1 scoreless, 1 H, 1/1 K/BB, HBP, 2-1 GO-FO

 

Peoria won 5-2 Box Score

 

RF C. Andersen 3/5, 2 R, 3 RBI, HR (2)

CF L. Johnson 0/2, BB, K, HBP, CS (3)

SS N. Samson 0/2, BB, RBI, HBP

C J. Donaldson 2/4, R, RBI, HR (3), CS (1)

1B K. Burke 1/4, K, SB (2)

3B M. Smith 0/4, K, E (5, throw)

LF D. Johnston 2/3, BB, R

2B M. Gonzalez 1/4, K

SP B. Muldowney 3.2 IP, 3 H, 2 ER, 7/1 K/BB, HR, 2-2 GO-FO

RP J. Latham 2.1 scoreless, 1 H, 3/2 K/BB, 1-1 GO-FO

 

OVERALL: 3-1

Edited May 6, 2008 by Outshined_One

[Guest]

Probable Starters:

 

Iowa: RHP Justin Berg (0-1, 4.26 ERA, 6.1 IP, 1 K/2 BB, .182 BAA)

Tennessee: RHP Jeff Samardzija (2-2, 3.77 ERA, 31 IP, 16 K/18 BB, .235 BAA)

Daytona: RHP Esmailin Caridad (2-2, 6.20 ERA, 24.2 IP, 12 K/10 BB, .247 BAA)

Peoria: RHP Billy Muldowney (0-0, 0.00 ERA, 4 IP, 3 K/0 BB, .000 BAA)

[rawaction]

I have really never like Jeff Samardzija as a baseball player.

[Guest]

A few notes:

 

• 2B Eric Patterson - on the Iowa DL since April 24 - is expected to be out at least another week.
  
• RHP Mark Holliman was demoted from AAA Iowa to AA Tennessee to make room for Rich Hill in Iowa.
  
• Already mentioned in yesterday's thread but Josh Vitters was sent back to extended spring training with tendonitis in his left hand. IF Jose Made is now up with Peoria:
   

  Peoria Journal-Star[/url]"]Prior to the Chiefs 2-0 loss to South Bend, the Chiefs announced that Vitters was being sent back to extended spring training in Mesa, Ariz., after being diagnosed with tendonitis in his left hand.
   
  Vitters, the No. 3 pick in the draft, joined the Chiefs on April 18 and had three doubles in his debut against Great Lakes. He injured the hand in that same series, though, and has since missed nine games. Vitters' roster spot was filled by Jose Made, who was in extended-spring training after hitting .192 in 39 games at short-season Boise last season.

[illiniguy]

I am so glad Wilken is running our drafts. He has been so good at it for us.

[jersey cubs fan]

I am so glad Wilken is running our drafts. He has been so good at it for us.

 

Relax, he drafted Alex Rios, or somebody.

[illiniguy]

I am so glad Wilken is running our drafts. He has been so good at it for us.

 

Relax, he drafted Alex Rios, or somebody.

Yep and then he drafted Josh Vitters instead of a handful of guys who are way better than him. Oh and he also snagged up Tyler Colvin a whole two rounds before necessary.

 

Honestly, does anyone think Josh will be ready for Boise next year?

[Guest]

Come now, Vitters was a consensus top-5 pick. This is not the same situation as Tyler Colvin going at 13.

 

A handful of guys better than him? Please. Probably Porcello and Wieters, but at draft time Parker wasn't thought of as a more worthy selection at 3 than Vitters by most if not all reports.

[Brian]

11:35 pm start time in Sacramento... is that a common thing?

 

edit - Never mind, outshined just doesn't know the difference between AM and PM ;)

 

I-Cubs down 5-2 in the 2nd

[illiniguy]

Come now, Vitters was a consensus top-5 pick. This is not the same situation as Tyler Colvin going at 13.

 

A handful of guys better than him? Please. Probably Porcello and Wieters, but at draft time Parker wasn't thought of as a more worthy selection at 3 than Vitters by most if not all reports.

The three you mentioned are and were better prospects than Vitters. A lot of people were projecting Josh to fall after a terrible senior year. How the heck does a team with our money let great prospects drop past us because of signability?

[CubColtPacer]

Come now, Vitters was a consensus top-5 pick. This is not the same situation as Tyler Colvin going at 13.

 

A handful of guys better than him? Please. Probably Porcello and Wieters, but at draft time Parker wasn't thought of as a more worthy selection at 3 than Vitters by most if not all reports.

The three you mentioned are and were better prospects than Vitters. A lot of people were projecting Josh to fall after a terrible senior year. How the heck does a team with our money let great prospects drop past us because of signability?

 

I just looked at 10 mock drafts, and not a single one had Vitters below 4. Many of them said the Pirates would be thrilled if the Cubs let Vitters pass at 3. I'm not saying that Vitters was the best pick the Cubs could have made, but he definitely was a consensus top 5 guy.

 

And most people believe the Cubs went the way they did last year because of the uncertainty of the ownership situation, which is why they mostly stayed away from the high bonus guys (others believe it's because of the threats that MLB gave to them, but I have a hard time they'd take those that seriously).

[Guest]

Come now, Vitters was a consensus top-5 pick. This is not the same situation as Tyler Colvin going at 13.

 

A handful of guys better than him? Please. Probably Porcello and Wieters, but at draft time Parker wasn't thought of as a more worthy selection at 3 than Vitters by most if not all reports.

The three you mentioned are and were better prospects than Vitters. A lot of people were projecting Josh to fall after a terrible senior year. How the heck does a team with our money let great prospects drop past us because of signability?

 

On draft day, not all 3 of them were better prospects. Porcello certainly was a better prospect ("best HS pitcher since Beckett") and only fell to Detroit because of signability. Wieters arguably was a better prospect (but it was not a consensus amongst scouts; many questioned whether Wieters could stick at C and felt his bat wouldn't be as valuable if he changed positions...of course defense was and is a big knock against Vitters too). Parker was certainly not a consensus top 5 pick, there were a few knocks on him. He was an interesting prospect rising up draft boards and Parker was mentioned as the 2nd most likely guy the Cubs would have picked but on draft day but I don't think I saw any place where he was rated ahead of Price, Porcello, Wieters, Moustakas and Vitters.

 

Vitters was held in high esteem by scouts for his successful seasons prior to his senior year and because he did well in the HS tournaments (especially the AFLAC game, IIRC) which scouts put a lot of emphasis on and came away with the excuse of down numbers his senior year due to the pneumonia. Whether those are good reasons to rate a prospect so highly is another conversation; those are just reasons why his stock did not fall during his senior season. To add to what CCP said, BA, BP, PG Crosschecker, etc. were all very high on him and they based many of their reports on what other scouts said.

 

Vitters wasn't my favorite guy (admittedly, my opinion is based on reports I've read on the Internet; obviously I'm not qualified enough to argue the merits of various potential baseball draft choices) but he was a consensus top 5 guy - the Cubs didn't reach on him as they had the year before.

[craig]

I just looked at 10 mock drafts, and not a single one had Vitters below 4. Many of them said the Pirates would be thrilled if the Cubs let Vitters pass at 3. I'm not saying that Vitters was the best pick the Cubs could have made, but he definitely was a consensus top 5 guy.

 

And most people believe the Cubs went the way they did last year because of the uncertainty of the ownership situation, which is why they mostly stayed away from the high bonus guys (others believe it's because of the threats that MLB gave to them, but I have a hard time they'd take those that seriously).

 

I may well end up wrong on this one. Vitters may well work out as bustaroo, and Parker and Porcello may become routine all-stars.

 

But one of the pre-draft arguments that I made (and is hardly original to me) goes as follows:

1. Many really elite position players are drafted straight out of HS and high in the 1st round. If there is good reason to believe that a guy has a good chance to be a premier hitter, give him good consideration.

 

2. A lot of pitchers have wonderful arms when they are drafted. But pitching is hard on the arm. A lot of guys with awesome arms at time of draft no longer have awesome arms 5 years into their big-league careers. By contrast, stud hitters often remain stud hitters for a long time, and are much less subject to the physical deterioration that a stud pitcher faces.

 

Most of the pitchers who are drafted with extraordinary arms don't have extraordinary arms by the time they hit free agency. Between major injury and just general erosion on the arm, it's the norm rather than the exception that a guy who's arm is exceptional at age 18 no longer has so extraordinary an arm by the time he turns 25.

 

I know there is no such thing as a true "sure thing" when you're drafting 3rd or lower. But if I had a sure-thing player and a sure-thing pitcher, I'd always opt for the player. If both guys are to become stars, the star player is much more likely to remain healthy enough to star into his mid-30's than is the pitcher.

 

Unfortunately such arguments are based on probabilities. So Vitters' tendonitis may be a case where the less probable player injury will occur, be chronic, and perhaps ruin his career, who knows. And obviously it may be that whatever the scouting consensus thought, that vitters was not near enough to a "sure thing" or an equal talent for this kind of logic to be applied as a tiebreaker.

[Guest]

Oh, and was Justin Berg horrible today or what? 1.1 IP, 7 H, 9 ER, 3 BB, 0 K, 1 HR.

 

Sacramento Bottom 1st

 

Travis Buck grounds out, shortstop Andres Blanco to first baseman Jake Fox.

Brooks Conrad singles on a ground ball to center fielder Sam Fuld.

With Kevin Melillo batting, wild pitch by Justin Berg, Brooks Conrad to 2nd.

Kevin Melillo walks.

Jeff Baisley homers (3) on a fly ball to left field. Brooks Conrad scores. Kevin Melillo scores.

Coaching visit to mound.

Wes Bankston hit by pitch.

Danny Putnam flies out to right fielder Andres Torres.

Joe Gaetti singles on a ground ball to center fielder Sam Fuld. Wes Bankston to 2nd.

Casey Rogowski singles on a line drive to center fielder Sam Fuld. Wes Bankston scores. Joe Gaetti to 3rd.

Landon Powell flies out to left fielder Matt Murton.

 

Sacramento Bottom 2nd

 

Travis Buck walks.

Brooks Conrad grounds into a force out, shortstop Andres Blanco to second baseman Bobby Scales. Travis Buck out at 2nd. Brooks Conrad to 1st.

With Kevin Melillo batting, Brooks Conrad steals (1) 2nd base.

Kevin Melillo walks.

Jeff Baisley singles on a soft line drive to center fielder Sam Fuld. Brooks Conrad to 3rd. Kevin Melillo to 2nd.

Wes Bankston singles on a line drive to left fielder Matt Murton. Brooks Conrad scores. Kevin Melillo to 3rd. Jeff Baisley to 2nd.

Danny Putnam singles on a ground ball to right fielder Andres Torres. Kevin Melillo scores. Jeff Baisley scores. Wes Bankston to 3rd.

Coaching visit to mound.

Pitcher Change: Mike Burns replaces Justin Berg.

Joe Gaetti homers (3) on a fly ball to left field. Wes Bankston scores. Danny Putnam scores.

 

In 7.2 AAA innings, he has already given up 3 HRs. He gave up 4 all last season at AA and for a guy who has a GO/AO rate of about 3, that's certainly not good.

[jersey cubs fan]

Come now, Vitters was a consensus top-5 pick. This is not the same situation as Tyler Colvin going at 13.

 

A handful of guys better than him? Please. Probably Porcello and Wieters, but at draft time Parker wasn't thought of as a more worthy selection at 3 than Vitters by most if not all reports.

The three you mentioned are and were better prospects than Vitters. A lot of people were projecting Josh to fall after a terrible senior year. How the heck does a team with our money let great prospects drop past us because of signability?

 

On draft day, not all 3 of them were better prospects. Porcello certainly was a better prospect ("best HS pitcher since Beckett") and only fell to Detroit because of signability. Wieters arguably was a better prospect (but it was not a consensus amongst scouts; many questioned whether Wieters could stick at C and felt his bat wouldn't be as valuable if he changed positions...of course defense was and is a big knock against Vitters too). Parker was certainly not a consensus top 5 pick, there were a few knocks on him. He was an interesting prospect rising up draft boards and Parker was mentioned as the 2nd most likely guy the Cubs would have picked but on draft day but I don't think I saw any place where he was rated ahead of Price, Porcello, Wieters, Moustakas and Vitters.

 

Vitters was held in high esteem by scouts for his successful seasons prior to his senior year and because he did well in the HS tournaments (especially the AFLAC game, IIRC) which scouts put a lot of emphasis on and came away with the excuse of down numbers his senior year due to the pneumonia. Whether those are good reasons to rate a prospect so highly is another conversation; those are just reasons why his stock did not fall during his senior season. To add to what CCP said, BA, BP, PG Crosschecker, etc. were all very high on him and they based many of their reports on what other scouts said.

 

Vitters wasn't my favorite guy (admittedly, my opinion is based on reports I've read on the Internet; obviously I'm not qualified enough to argue the merits of various potential baseball draft choices) but he was a consensus top 5 guy - the Cubs didn't reach on him as they had the year before.

 

Regardless of whether or not it's a failure based on reaching, or a failure on simply taking the wrong guy, if it turns into a failure, it's a failure, and can and should be held against those making the decisions.

[Guest]

Agreed, but it's too soon to call Vitters a bust. Illiniguy seems to have already decided Vitters has failed and in part because he was a "reach."

[Guest]

RHP Jim Henderson (back) goes from extended spring training to AA Tennessee. RHP Grant Johnson (elbow) is up at high-A Daytona (along with RHP Billy Petrick who pitched yesterday).

[Little Slide Rooter]

So is Hoffpauir due off the DL any time soon?

[Little Slide Rooter]

Shark with a nice outing today. West Tenn win 6-1.

 

On a side note, I didnt realise that Donnie Veal was bad on track. 2-0 with a 1.82. Not too shabby.

[Guest]

Good to see Samardzija limit the walks. And he had more GO than FO (7-4).

 

Muldowney didn't get out of the 4th inning, giving up 2 ER but he racked up 7 K. Donaldson is above .200 and hit his 3rd HR of the season. Cliff Andersen hit a HR too and went 3/5.

[davearm2]

Shark with a nice outing today. West Tenn win 6-1.

 

On a side note, I didnt realise that Donnie Veal was bad on track. 2-0 with a 1.82. Not too shabby.

Veal's still walking over 5 guys per 9 IP (17 in 29.2, to be precise).

 

That doesn't translate to "back on track" to very many folks.

[Guest]

Shark with a nice outing today. West Tenn win 6-1.

 

On a side note, I didnt realise that Donnie Veal was bad on track. 2-0 with a 1.82. Not too shabby.

Veal's still walking over 5 guys per 9 IP (17 in 29.2, to be precise).

 

That doesn't translate to "back on track" to very many folks.

 

Heck, his BB/9 is actually up from last season. At least he's less hittable this season (.256 last year vs. .217 this year).

[craig]

On Veal, does anybody know what changes he's made? He was an extreme K pitcher who rarely got a groundout. Now he's a fairly low K-guy who gets a normal distribution of groundouts. In A, it was one groundout-per-two-innings. Now it's 1+ per inning. Has he ditched the curve, or what? Anybody know?

[NCCubFan]

Shark with a nice outing today. West Tenn win 6-1.

Actually West Tenn won 13-3, but that's completely irrelevant to this discussion. Tenn won 6-1.

 

On a side note, I didnt realise that Donnie Veal was bad on track. 2-0 with a 1.82. Not too shabby.

Actually, I think he's good on track. :D

[CUBZ99]

Shark with 5 K's in 5.2 IP :shock: is that a professional high for him?