4/16 Dusty Baker's Reds (Fogg) @ Cubs (Z!) 7:05 CSN

[Jon]

103 pitches is not going to hurt Z in the slightest bit.

 

Our BP, on the other hand, desperately needed this rest.

We have two long relievers and the bullpen is well rested. There was no reason why Zambrano should have gone over 100 pitches.

 

Nonsense. Z's been going over 100 pitches his entire career regularly. It's never hurt him then, and it isn't likely to now.

He's been abused his entire career, as well.

 

When there's no reason to have Z throw over 100 pitches, why would you keep him out there? What can possibly be gained from it?

[David]

Z is batting for himself. Wonderful.

 

If we only had a long reliever. Or two.

 

Even if Lou intends to take him out why burn a pinch hitter?

The near disaster at 2nd base would be one reason.

 

Why is Lee still in there instead of Ward? Why isn't Patterson out there or Blanco? When you're up 9 in the bottom of the 7th, you can afford to have a reliever take an AB.

 

Worrying about him running the bases seems a bit paranoid.

 

It's not a worry so much as it is distaste for a 100% unnecessary risk. Imagine how you'd want to react if he DID get hurt. There was really nothing to gain with an 8 run lead.

 

He has about as good a chance of getting hurt being hit by a line drive sitting in the dugout. The guy is not fragile.

 

OK, that's hyperbole.

 

It doesn't matter that he's not fragile. There was no reason to have him in there. Absolutely nothing to be gained other than for Z to have some fun. Why do it?

[ArthurVandalay]

Anybody else watching the Reds' TV broadcast on FSN Ohio? Sour grapes, Welsh/Brennaman.

"Throwing the ball back onto the field is a tradition that started here at Wrigley, and frankly, I'm getting tired of it."

Hate these two bozos...

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

EPatt and Pie for Dunn plz

 

Don't do that to me. Dreaming of an OF of Dunn, Soriano, Fuku would just be too much.... Christ

 

 

If Soriano had been hurt bad enough to miss the rest of the season, I would hope we could trade for Dunn. He'll be a FA at the end of the season.

[Yeti]

103 pitches is not going to hurt Z in the slightest bit.

 

Our BP, on the other hand, desperately needed this rest.

We have two long relievers and the bullpen is well rested. There was no reason why Zambrano should have gone over 100 pitches.

 

Nonsense. Z's been going over 100 pitches his entire career regularly. It's never hurt him then, and it isn't likely to now.

He's been abused his entire career, as well.

 

When there's no reason to have Z throw over 100 pitches, why would you keep him out there? What can possibly be gained from it?

what did he throw 103? come on!

[RedFlash]

There's Dunn's home run that he hits once a series against the Cubs.

 

Tell me about it. He's hit more homeruns against the Cubs (33) then any other franchise. He's hit more of his career HRs ar Wrigley (20 hrs) then any other park. To say..........Dunn loves facing the Cubs would be an understatement, as would I would be happy to see Dunn leave the NL Central.

[Guest]

Lieber hasn't pitched since 4/10.

Marshall has pitched a measly 2.2 innings since being called up

Hart pitched 2.2 innings over the last 7 days

 

Even if you hold one guy back in case Lilly doesn't pitch well tomorrow, any one of them easily could have finished off the last 3 innings.

 

All I'm trying to figure out is why you continue to rant about this. Z threw 101 pitches which, as was pointed out, he's done plenty of times before. It's not like Lou left him in to throw 120. And as for the running, Z could get hurt doing anything. He could trip and fall down the dugout steps, so should the Cubs hire somebody to carry him down the steps? It's not that big of a deal.

[Illini Iceman]

Z is batting for himself. Wonderful.

 

If we only had a long reliever. Or two.

 

Even if Lou intends to take him out why burn a pinch hitter?

The near disaster at 2nd base would be one reason.

 

Why is Lee still in there instead of Ward? Why isn't Patterson out there or Blanco? When you're up 9 in the bottom of the 7th, you can afford to have a reliever take an AB.

 

Worrying about him running the bases seems a bit paranoid.

 

It's not a worry so much as it is distaste for a 100% unnecessary risk. Imagine how you'd want to react if he DID get hurt. There was really nothing to gain with an 8 run lead.

 

He has about as good a chance of getting hurt being hit by a line drive sitting in the dugout. The guy is not fragile.

 

OK, that's hyperbole.

 

It doesn't matter that he's not fragile. There was no reason to have him in there. Absolutely nothing to be gained other than for Z to have some fun. Why do it?

 

Because Z wanted to have some fun and there was absolutely no reason to think he would get hurt. And, by the way, he didn't.

[bcl412]

There's Dunn's home run that he hits once a series against the Cubs.

 

Tell me about it. He's hit more homeruns against the Cubs (33) then any other franchise. He's hit more of his career HRs ar Wrigley (20 hrs) then any other park. To say..........Dunn loves facing the Cubs would be an understatement, as would I would be happy to see Dunn leave the NL Central.

 

Or join the Cubs.

[RedFlash]

what did he throw 103? come on!

 

Agreed. Z averaged 14 pitches per inning tonight. Tonight he has not been abused AT ALL. People are fussing just to fuss.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

Pie gets the walk!

[bcl412]

PIE WALK!!!

[Soul]

103 pitches is not going to hurt Z in the slightest bit.

 

Our BP, on the other hand, desperately needed this rest.

We have two long relievers and the bullpen is well rested. There was no reason why Zambrano should have gone over 100 pitches.

 

Nonsense. Z's been going over 100 pitches his entire career regularly. It's never hurt him then, and it isn't likely to now.

He's been abused his entire career, as well.

 

When there's no reason to have Z throw over 100 pitches, why would you keep him out there? What can possibly be gained from it?

 

Why wouldn't you keep him out there? You're inventing this phantom "danger" and freaking out over it. Why? This is what Z does. Personally, I'm glad to see him get the work. It's not like he threw 140 pitches. It's 103. Well within career norms. Z performs at this level just fine.

[CubColtPacer]

Z is batting for himself. Wonderful.

 

If we only had a long reliever. Or two.

 

Even if Lou intends to take him out why burn a pinch hitter?

The near disaster at 2nd base would be one reason.

 

Why is Lee still in there instead of Ward? Why isn't Patterson out there or Blanco? When you're up 9 in the bottom of the 7th, you can afford to have a reliever take an AB.

 

Worrying about him running the bases seems a bit paranoid.

 

It's not a worry so much as it is distaste for a 100% unnecessary risk. Imagine how you'd want to react if he DID get hurt. There was really nothing to gain with an 8 run lead.

 

He has about as good a chance of getting hurt being hit by a line drive sitting in the dugout. The guy is not fragile.

 

OK, that's hyperbole.

 

It doesn't matter that he's not fragile. There was no reason to have him in there. Absolutely nothing to be gained other than for Z to have some fun. Why do it?

 

I think you've hit the same reason why to leave him in for 101 pitches. For Z's mental state.

 

Z fluctuates mentally so much, and it's such a big key to him pitching well, that I'm willing to make concessions for him within reason. Is it really a big difference for Z to pitch 101 pitches instead of 90? Not really, so why take him out in the middle of the inning with runners on (which you know Z can't stand) if you don't need to? If it's the difference between 100 and 120, I'm taking him out over his objection. I see almost no stress on him just by barely reaching 100 though.

 

At the same time, if Z wants to bat for himself with an 8 run lead, let him. It doesn't hurt the Cubs on the field. Z is just as likely to get hurt just being his crazy self during the day as on the basepaths, and the Cubs keep him mentally in the best state he can be..

[bcl412]

Z is batting for himself. Wonderful.

 

If we only had a long reliever. Or two.

 

Even if Lou intends to take him out why burn a pinch hitter?

The near disaster at 2nd base would be one reason.

 

Why is Lee still in there instead of Ward? Why isn't Patterson out there or Blanco? When you're up 9 in the bottom of the 7th, you can afford to have a reliever take an AB.

 

Worrying about him running the bases seems a bit paranoid.

 

It's not a worry so much as it is distaste for a 100% unnecessary risk. Imagine how you'd want to react if he DID get hurt. There was really nothing to gain with an 8 run lead.

 

He has about as good a chance of getting hurt being hit by a line drive sitting in the dugout. The guy is not fragile.

 

OK, that's hyperbole.

 

It doesn't matter that he's not fragile. There was no reason to have him in there. Absolutely nothing to be gained other than for Z to have some fun. Why do it?

 

I think you've hit the same reason why to leave him in for 101 pitches. For Z's mental state.

 

Z fluctuates mentally so much, and it's such a big key to him pitching well, that I'm willing to make concessions for him within reason. Is it really a big difference for Z to pitch 101 pitches instead of 90? Not really, so why take him out in the middle of the inning with runners on (which you know Z can't stand) if you don't need to? If it's the difference between 100 and 120, I'm taking him out over his objection. I see almost no stress on him just by barely reaching 100 though.

 

At the same time, if Z wants to bat for himself with an 8 run lead, let him. It doesn't hurt the Cubs on the field. Z is just as likely to get hurt just being his crazy self during the day as on the basepaths, and the Cubs keep him mentally in the best state he can be..

 

I love Cubs fans. Is there anything that we don't freak out about.

[Guest]

I love Cubs fans. Is there anything that we don't freak out about.

 

Nope.

[David]

Lieber hasn't pitched since 4/10.

Marshall has pitched a measly 2.2 innings since being called up

Hart pitched 2.2 innings over the last 7 days

 

Even if you hold one guy back in case Lilly doesn't pitch well tomorrow, any one of them easily could have finished off the last 3 innings.

 

All I'm trying to figure out is why you continue to rant about this. Z threw 101 pitches which, as was pointed out, he's done plenty of times before. It's not like Lou left him in to throw 120. And as for the running, Z could get hurt doing anything. He could trip and fall down the dugout steps, so should the Cubs hire somebody to carry him down the steps? It's not that big of a deal.

 

How is it a rant? Taking 100% unnecessary risk is incredibly stupid. We'd all be better off not doing it. Managing baseball teams is no different.

 

Sure, you can take a ride in your car with no seatbelt on and you're 99% sure to arrive at your destination unscathed. That 1% of the time, though, you might just wind up dead because you didn't want to wear your damn seatbelt.

 

Maybe it's because I play poker... *shrug*

Edited April 17, 2008 by David

[Jon]

Lieber hasn't pitched since 4/10.

Marshall has pitched a measly 2.2 innings since being called up

Hart pitched 2.2 innings over the last 7 days

 

Even if you hold one guy back in case Lilly doesn't pitch well tomorrow, any one of them easily could have finished off the last 3 innings.

 

All I'm trying to figure out is why you continue to rant about this. Z threw 101 pitches which, as was pointed out, he's done plenty of times before. It's not like Lou left him in to throw 120. And as for the running, Z could get hurt doing anything. He could trip and fall down the dugout steps, so should the Cubs hire somebody to carry him down the steps? It's not that big of a deal.

The question is why. Piniella already decided that the starters don't need extra days off in April in an attempt to keep them in a routine and apparently Zambrano doesn't need any shorter nights, either. What is the logic behind leaving Zambrano in there, especially when you have relievers that need work?

 

The idea that Carlos has had high pitch counts all his life as justification is absurd. Z finished with the 2nd highest PAP total in the majors in 2007, 2006, and 2005. Is there any reason to leave him in there?

 

And how exactly is this a rant?

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

I'd love a grand slam here.

[David]

Wow, I love how my aversion to pointless risk is being mis-characterized as freaking out.

[Yeti]

7 IP, 2 ER, 103 pitches....with the wind blowing out, its just about a perfect line....got what you wanted 7 IP and didnt strain for a moment....

[bcl412]

I would love for Eric to homer over Corey's head.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

Eric Patterson sighting.

[Soul]

Lieber hasn't pitched since 4/10.

Marshall has pitched a measly 2.2 innings since being called up

Hart pitched 2.2 innings over the last 7 days

 

Even if you hold one guy back in case Lilly doesn't pitch well tomorrow, any one of them easily could have finished off the last 3 innings.

 

All I'm trying to figure out is why you continue to rant about this. Z threw 101 pitches which, as was pointed out, he's done plenty of times before. It's not like Lou left him in to throw 120. And as for the running, Z could get hurt doing anything. He could trip and fall down the dugout steps, so should the Cubs hire somebody to carry him down the steps? It's not that big of a deal.

 

How is it a rant. Taking 100% unnecessary risk is incredibly stupid. We'd all be better off not doing it. Managing baseball teams is no different.

 

Sure, you can take a ride in your car with no seatbelt on and you're 99% sure to arrive at your destination unscathed. That 1% of the time, though, you might just wind up dead because you didn't want to wear your damn seatbelt.

 

Maybe it's because I play poker... *shrug*

 

Let's say you're right. Let's say Lou left him in so Z could have some fun. There's value in that, too. Especially for a guy like Z. And that value overrides your 1% chance he might get hurt, which is probably the same % chance of him getting hurt on the way to the ballpark.

 

I'm just guessing, but I think Lou left him in so Z could pitch a good, long start in a groove. And I think that's helpful to Z as well. And it's certainly more helpful than getting every long reliever on the staff an inning of work, when they'll likely get innings coming up over the next couple days anyway.

[David]

Nice, another RBI for my fantasy team.