Lieber for rotation BandWGN

[Brian]

Please. Like Hill is some proven veteran or something. The blind adulation for Hill and his mediocre season last year, is really pathetic.

 

#13 WHIP and #10 BAA in all of MLB is mediocre?

[sharkfan50]

Zambrano's season last year was the worst of his career.

 

He's winning 20 this year however while Hill will put up a +4 ERA. I'm not saying Hill is terrible or that he should be removed from the rotation, but he really is just a mediocre pitcher with only 2 pitches. I just pointed out that some comments made about him in this thread were talking like it's blashpemy even mentioning that he might not be as great as some of you on this board point out or seem to think. Like he's some proven veteran. We'll see if the league catches up to him this year.

 

If he puts up the same numbers as last season, then he's one more year closer to being a proven commodity. I just don't think he will. I see him taking a step back this year and I've been saying that for awhile, especially when I saw him this Spring and was dissapointed he still doesn't have a change up in his repetoire or a quality 2nd pitch.

[anabiono]

It's been awhile since we've had a Rich Hill pissing contest. How the man inspires this much bizarre behavior from certain posters on this board will forever be a mystery to me.

 

So, when Lilly gets shelled in Philly this weekend, how many posts will we see seriously advocating his removal from the rotation? None? One?

 

i have been thinking about this recently...it is really funny how of all the arms on our staff lilly seems to be immune to criticism...

 

i am hoping he pulls his head out of his behind...but i cannot say that i am not truly worried about him right now

[sharkfan50]

#13 WHIP and #10 BAA in all of MLB is mediocre?

 

It was one season. That hardly makes him a proven pitcher and to squelch any doubts anyone might have about him.

[SouthSideRyan]

#13 WHIP and #10 BAA in all of MLB is mediocre?

 

It was one season. That hardly makes him a proven pitcher and to squelch any doubts anyone might have about him.

 

Season before that he pitched half the year with a 111 ERA+ It's fine to have to have doubts about a guy, but there doesn't seem to be any reason behind your doubting other than this start and some meaningless spring games.

[imb]

rich hill makes me so antsy for some reason, like im always waiting for him to just lose it forever

 

i went to baseball reference to make myself feel better, but it turns out his no. 1 comparable is jason vargas for some reason

[Wheelimus]

How about instead of officially removing anyone from the rotation we simply slot Lieber in for a start and give Hill and Lilly an extra day of rest. You know, to work on things.

 

Heaven forbid that Lieber throws a shutout and both Lilly and Hill bounce back. Oh noes, one too many starting pitchers. What ever will we do...

[gerby23]

rich hill makes me so antsy for some reason, like im always waiting for him to just lose it forever

 

i went to baseball reference to make myself feel better, but it turns out his no. 1 comparable is jason vargas for some reason

 

Agreed. His soft, straight fastball is my biggest concern. If he had more movement or more speed to compliment his big, slow curve I would worry less. At this point, I don't even really see a Changeup being that helpful as I fell it would be slow, slower, slowest. (cue someone mentioning Maddux)

He had a good year last year, and I am hoping he can straighten himself out this year, but I have my doubts. Not crazy, irrational doubts with reactionary comments, just doubts.

[soapy]

I was on this after ST, as most of us were. Depending on how Marquis does in his next start, I'd put Lieber in the rotation and consider taking out Hill or Marquis.

 

](*,)

 

sadly, given lou's a.d.d. managing, it wouldn't surprise me if this happened.

 

Come on, he wasn't even finding the strike zone and every guy was hitting him hard. Throw the Brewers out against him and the Cubs get destroyed. If Marquis or Marshall looks strong the next few starts, I would put Lieber in over Hill.

i like the part where you pretend the last two years of data about both Hill and Lieber just doesn't exist and/or indicate what either is likely to do over the course of a full season.

[soapy]

Please. Like Hill is some proven veteran or something. The blind adulation for Hill and his mediocre season last year, is really pathetic.

and yet, Hill's 2007 is far better than anything Lieber has done the last few years.

 

i'm not against Lieber to the rotation, but it would be stupid to do it at the expense of Hill.

[WilcoFan]

As usual with Hill, the truth should lie somewhere in the middle between the "One-Pitch-Rich"ers and the "Hill is the Greatest Cub Pitcher since Fergie Jenkins" ers.

 

To advocate pulling Hill after two starts is utterly ridiculous. However, to sweep his control problems under the rug as if they shouldn't be cause for a little concern, especially considering they occurred throughout Spring Training as well is equally ridiculous. There's no reason to be overly critical or overly defensive of him.

[soapy]

As usual with Hill, the truth should lie somewhere in the middle between the "One-Pitch-Rich"ers and the "Hill is the Greatest Cub Pitcher since Fergie Jenkins" ers.

 

To advocate pulling Hill after two starts is utterly ridiculous. However, to sweep his control problems under the rug as if they shouldn't be cause for a little concern, especially considering they occurred throughout Spring Training as well is equally ridiculous. There's no reason to be overly critical or overly defensive of him.

too logical

[TruffleShuffle]

As usual with Hill, the truth should lie somewhere in the middle between the "One-Pitch-Rich"ers and the "Hill is the Greatest Cub Pitcher since Fergie Jenkins" ers.

 

To advocate pulling Hill after two starts is utterly ridiculous. However, to sweep his control problems under the rug as if they shouldn't be cause for a little concern, especially considering they occurred throughout Spring Training as well is equally ridiculous. There's no reason to be overly critical or overly defensive of him.

 

there aren't people like this - well not really. there are people who realize he was a very good #3 or average #2 last year, and who think it is idiotic to act like he should be in danger of losing his rotation spot.

[WilcoFan]

As usual with Hill, the truth should lie somewhere in the middle between the "One-Pitch-Rich"ers and the "Hill is the Greatest Cub Pitcher since Fergie Jenkins" ers.

 

To advocate pulling Hill after two starts is utterly ridiculous. However, to sweep his control problems under the rug as if they shouldn't be cause for a little concern, especially considering they occurred throughout Spring Training as well is equally ridiculous. There's no reason to be overly critical or overly defensive of him.

 

there aren't people like this - well not really. there are people who realize he was a very good #3 or average #2 last year, and who think it is idiotic to act like he should be in danger of losing his rotation spot.

 

There absolutely are, just as there are people who believe he should be a LOOGY. They are few and far between, but I've seen both on these boards.

 

You may think that he's a very good #3 or average #2 (I agree, by the way), but the manner in which some rise to defend anything and everything Rich Hill belies the argument that there aren't people who overrate him to absurd levels.

[TruffleShuffle]

As usual with Hill, the truth should lie somewhere in the middle between the "One-Pitch-Rich"ers and the "Hill is the Greatest Cub Pitcher since Fergie Jenkins" ers.

 

To advocate pulling Hill after two starts is utterly ridiculous. However, to sweep his control problems under the rug as if they shouldn't be cause for a little concern, especially considering they occurred throughout Spring Training as well is equally ridiculous. There's no reason to be overly critical or overly defensive of him.

 

there aren't people like this - well not really. there are people who realize he was a very good #3 or average #2 last year, and who think it is idiotic to act like he should be in danger of losing his rotation spot.

 

There absolutely are, just as there are people who believe he should be a LOOGY. They are few and far between, but I've seen both on these boards.

 

You may think that he's a very good #3 or average #2 (I agree, by the way), but the manner in which some rise to defend anything and everything Rich Hill belies the argument that there aren't people who overrate him to absurd levels.

 

okay we'll have to agree to disagree then. generally when i see people defending him, it's from the folks who think he is still a AAAA pitcher with one major league pitch. apparently those folks slept through the second half of 2006 and pretty much all of last year.

[Bull]

My inner pitching coach was telling me he wasn't releasing the ball out in front. No control of the curveball tonight, folks.

 

It was the fastball he was having trouble with. The curveball was just fine.

 

It was breaking well, but it was all over the place. If he was struggling to locate his fastball (and he was), the location of his curveball was 10x worse.

[swordsman]

Am I an idiot for liking Lieber out of the pen? I'm not sure he can effectively handle a full major league season as a starter but having a guy who can do what he has done out of the pen so far this year seems pretty darn valuable to me. I'm not sure I would tamper with that.

 

Fixing issues in the rotation? Fine, though I am hardly an expert on how to do that. But taking a player out of a situation where he is being effective and successful* to fix a problem that may have other solutions seems unwise to me.

 

*granted the sample size is small and has a few annomolies (sp?) like a guy on third who doesn't run win the game.

[Soul]

Am I an idiot for liking Lieber out of the pen? I'm not sure he can effectively handle a full major league season as a starter but having a guy who can do what he has done out of the pen so far this year seems pretty darn valuable to me. I'm not sure I would tamper with that.

 

Fixing issues in the rotation? Fine, though I am hardly an expert on how to do that. But taking a player out of a situation where he is being effective and successful* to fix a problem that may have other solutions seems unwise to me.

 

*granted the sample size is small and has a few annomolies (sp?) like a guy on third who doesn't run win the game.

 

There's a danger, sure. I want Hill to succeed, and I think now is way too early to yank him out of the rotation. But he needs to get this thing together soon or there might be no choice. And Liebs would be the guy Lou goes to, I'm sure.

[Dallas Green]

I really think that the 03 season with Prior and Wood and the 04 rotations potential has skewed peoples expectations of what a rotation is. Rich Hill was a FINE #3 pitcher last year.

Look at Boston or Colorado's staff last year for ex and tell me how much better their #3 were. You will really only have one ace these days with what pitchers are getting and we have ours in Zambrano. If we get 13-15 wins from our 2/3 starters, good.

[hardcorecubfan]

The way we are playing he may want to stay in the pen and get more wins. I am on this BNDWGN since ST also.

[bcl412]

I like the idea of Lieber coming out of the pen as well. He is a great weapon to have when one of the starters doesn't pitch well in the first couple of innings (like Hill last night) and keep the Cubs in the game with out worrying about draining the rest of the bull pen.

[javy knows my name]

I was on this after ST, as most of us were. Depending on how Marquis does in his next start, I'd put Lieber in the rotation and consider taking out Hill or Marquis.

 

](*,)

 

sadly, given lou's a.d.d. managing, it wouldn't surprise me if this happened.

 

Come on, he wasn't even finding the strike zone and every guy was hitting him hard. Throw the Brewers out against him and the Cubs get destroyed. If Marquis or Marshall looks strong the next few starts, I would put Lieber in over Hill.

 

good thing you're not the manager.

He's got an awful lot in common with him though

[BigSlick]

WHY ISN'T MARSHALL IN THE ROTATION

[mhuber92211]

Was't Hill throwing a cutter at the end of last year?

[javy knows my name]

Zambrano's season last year was the worst of his career.

 

He's winning 20 this year however while Hill will put up a +4 ERA. I'm not saying Hill is terrible or that he should be removed from the rotation, but he really is just a mediocre pitcher with only 2 pitches. I just pointed out that some comments made about him in this thread were talking like it's blashpemy even mentioning that he might not be as great as some of you on this board point out or seem to think. Like he's some proven veteran. We'll see if the league catches up to him this year.

 

If he puts up the same numbers as last season, then he's one more year closer to being a proven commodity. I just don't think he will. I see him taking a step back this year and I've been saying that for awhile, especially when I saw him this Spring and was dissapointed he still doesn't have a change up in his repetoire or a quality 2nd pitch.

Where do they find you people? The only acceptable circumstance in which one can use this phrase is in the process of making fun of Dusty.