Re: 2008 NBA Draft Thread - Early Entrants

[RynoRules]

as long as the Bulls don't go anywhere near Love or, shudder, Tyler Hansborough

Hansborugh can't go pro. He stays he becomes the ACCs all time scoring leader by a wide margin and UNC's. Besides the money, there is no reason for him to go pro.

 

fine with me. save Paxson from himself.

 

Actually Griffin staying in school truly saved Pax from himself. I hope Pax wakes up and trades up to get Rose. I know that is asking quite a bit, but that kid renminds me of AI.

 

I think he's a better shooting Jason Kidd.

 

No link because it's not remotely official (and not at all surprising_ but from someone I trust, Kevin Love will declare for the draft later this week. A formal announcement will be made after tomorrow's UCLA basketball banquet.

 

I know that people think Love's game will not translate to the NBA, but what does he have to lose? He'll just get picked at by scouts even more if he stays in college.

 

Agreed The things he need to work on (conditioning) he can do in the NBA or cannot control (jumping higher, growing taller). Plus he'd risk injury. Ben Howland was told he was an 8-15 pick in the draft by scouts, no point in sticking around if you're a lottery pick.

 

Yup. He clearly has great court-sense. He is a great passer and a good shooter. He reminds me of Lambier, except he may not be as much of a jackass.

[Guest]

Rose is listed as 6'3, 205 lbs.

 

Kidd: 6'4, 210.

Paul: 6', 175.

Iverson: 6', 165.

 

ETA: Beasley officially in.

[tadowdaddy]

Rose is listed as 6'3, 205 lbs.

 

Kidd: 6'4, 210.

Paul: 6', 175.

Iverson: 6', 165.

 

ETA: Beasley officially in.

 

 

Good for him. I'm happy that he came and gave us one outstanding year and wish him nothing but success. That being said, I hope Bill Walker doesn't decide he's ready and actually sticks around for one more year.

[RynoRules]

Rose is listed as 6'3, 205 lbs.

 

Kidd: 6'4, 210.

Paul: 6', 175.

Iverson: 6', 165.

 

ETA: Beasley officially in.

 

Wow, I was way off on his body-type. With that size he has long-time stud written all over him.

[illiniguy]

I'd be shocked if he doesn't become a guy who does for his team what Chris Paul and Deron Williams do, and maybe a little better.

You're taking a piss, dude. In case you haven't been paying attention, Chris Paul is having one of the best seasons a pure point guard has ever had.

He has, but Rose has the same things going for him and is a little bigger. Sure he might not be as good, but even a step down is going to make some NBA team very happy.

[illiniguy]

He might not, but I would be shocked if Beasley ever becomes a franchise player. At least a franchise player on a good team. Hell he barely was able to win 20 games in college.

 

I'm willing to give him a pass due to having a piss-poor coach and a mediocre supporting cast. I don't think he has the kind of "All Time Great" potential you'd hope for out of a #1 overall pick, but I think his floor is that of a solid, yet unspectacular, PF.

That is like the biggest myth ever. Bill Walker was the number 7 player in his class. Sutton was also a 5 star prospect. There was plenty of talent there. The coaching did suck, but come on.

 

 

C'mon, dude. You and I both know:

 

A. Bill Walker has talent, but he's also an extreme head case. He completely disappeared in as many games as he contributed.

B. Dominique Sutton averaged 13.5 minutes/game, only played in 19 games, and wasn't really a factor this season.

 

The talent around Beasley just wasn't that good. What little there is was too young to be consistent/effective. That's not to say Rose won't be a better player. He probably will. But it's silly to belittle what Beasley did on the court.

 

I'm also curious to see how Rose will do against NBA quality PGs. He pushed around a lot of smaller guys throughout his college career. He won't be able to just physically dominate NBA guards like that.

The NBA is full of teammates that are headcases. Walker has elite level talent. Maybe I put too much stock into wins, but christ they lost to Nebraska. Nebraska. I mean I know he can and will get a lot better, but I keep thinking Derrick Coleman and Billy Owens when I watch him play. Certainly not the type of guy I would ever pick before a franchise type point guard. Hell even if he becomes a great power forward I still would rather have Rose because I am sure he will be a great point guard.

[Rex Buckingham]

He might not, but I would be shocked if Beasley ever becomes a franchise player. At least a franchise player on a good team. Hell he barely was able to win 20 games in college.

 

I'm willing to give him a pass due to having a piss-poor coach and a mediocre supporting cast. I don't think he has the kind of "All Time Great" potential you'd hope for out of a #1 overall pick, but I think his floor is that of a solid, yet unspectacular, PF.

That is like the biggest myth ever. Bill Walker was the number 7 player in his class. Sutton was also a 5 star prospect. There was plenty of talent there. The coaching did suck, but come on.

 

 

C'mon, dude. You and I both know:

 

A. Bill Walker has talent, but he's also an extreme head case. He completely disappeared in as many games as he contributed.

B. Dominique Sutton averaged 13.5 minutes/game, only played in 19 games, and wasn't really a factor this season.

 

The talent around Beasley just wasn't that good. What little there is was too young to be consistent/effective. That's not to say Rose won't be a better player. He probably will. But it's silly to belittle what Beasley did on the court.

 

I'm also curious to see how Rose will do against NBA quality PGs. He pushed around a lot of smaller guys throughout his college career. He won't be able to just physically dominate NBA guards like that.

The NBA is full of teammates that are headcases. Walker has elite level talent. Maybe I put too much stock into wins, but christ they lost to Nebraska. Nebraska. I mean I know he can and will get a lot better, but I keep thinking Derrick Coleman and Billy Owens when I watch him play. Certainly not the type of guy I would ever pick before a franchise type point guard. Hell even if he becomes a great power forward I still would rather have Rose because I am sure he will be a great point guard.

 

I didn't watch K-State more than a couple times this year, but it seemed to me that a lot of the time they struggled to get Beasley the ball... He scored a lot of his points, in the games I saw, off of offensive rebounds and jump shots... but the few times he got it down inside he was very effective with it

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Bill Walker is not an elite talent. In order to be an elite talent you need to be at a level above "bad" at putting the ball in the basket. He's not big enough to be a 3 and he can't shoot enough to be a 2.

[illiniguy]

Bill Walker is not an elite talent. In order to be an elite talent you need to be at a level above "bad" at putting the ball in the basket. He's not big enough to be a 3 and he can't shoot enough to be a 2.

Right, Walker wasn't good at putting the ball in the hole. 16 ppg on almost 47% shooting is a level above "bad".

[rawaction]

Rose could be a mix of a lot of things. Kidd's court vision. Paul's ability to make his teammates better. Wade's ability to clear out and score if needed. Ultimately, I think he will be very similar to Deron Williams, but better. Pretty similar in size. He's probably got better vision than Williams and is quicker, but may be a slightly lesser shooter. He seriously is a player that can come right into the NBA and make a bad team legit. I would not be surprised to see him put up 20 ppg, 5 rebs, 10 asts right off the bat.

 

I don't see him putting up Deron's numbers. I think deron is the better player.

 

What makes Deron better? Rose is quicker at the same size (6'3" 205 vs. 6'3" 210). Rose is a better finisher. Rose has better court vision. Rose is being compared favorably to Kidd. While Deron is a good passer, he's not Kidd in his prime. I think Deron has a slightly better jumpshot, but I think if you put Rose on this year's Utah Jazz, you probably can't tell them apart aside from "possibly" turnovers in favor of Williams.

[illiniguy]

Rose could be a mix of a lot of things. Kidd's court vision. Paul's ability to make his teammates better. Wade's ability to clear out and score if needed. Ultimately, I think he will be very similar to Deron Williams, but better. Pretty similar in size. He's probably got better vision than Williams and is quicker, but may be a slightly lesser shooter. He seriously is a player that can come right into the NBA and make a bad team legit. I would not be surprised to see him put up 20 ppg, 5 rebs, 10 asts right off the bat.

 

I don't see him putting up Deron's numbers. I think deron is the better player.

 

What makes Deron better? Rose is quicker at the same size (6'3" 205 vs. 6'3" 210). Rose is a better finisher. Rose has better court vision. Rose is being compared favorably to Kidd. While Deron is a good passer, he's not Kidd in his prime. I think Deron has a slightly better jumpshot, but I think if you put Rose on this year's Utah Jazz, you probably can't tell them apart aside from "possibly" turnovers in favor of Williams.

Williams has a tighter handle and a better shot. Rose is much quicker, a better jumper, and better in the open court. Rose is everything that Livingston was supposed to be.

[imb]

Rose could be a mix of a lot of things. Kidd's court vision. Paul's ability to make his teammates better. Wade's ability to clear out and score if needed. Ultimately, I think he will be very similar to Deron Williams, but better. Pretty similar in size. He's probably got better vision than Williams and is quicker, but may be a slightly lesser shooter. He seriously is a player that can come right into the NBA and make a bad team legit. I would not be surprised to see him put up 20 ppg, 5 rebs, 10 asts right off the bat.

 

I don't see him putting up Deron's numbers. I think deron is the better player.

 

What makes Deron better? Rose is quicker at the same size (6'3" 205 vs. 6'3" 210). Rose is a better finisher. Rose has better court vision. Rose is being compared favorably to Kidd. While Deron is a good passer, he's not Kidd in his prime. I think Deron has a slightly better jumpshot, but I think if you put Rose on this year's Utah Jazz, you probably can't tell them apart aside from "possibly" turnovers in favor of Williams.

 

You think Rose is averaging 19 and 10.5 on 51% from the floor and 39% from three in his rookie season in the nba, even though he averaged 14 and 4.7 on 48% and 37% in college?

[snoodmonger]

Rose could be a mix of a lot of things. Kidd's court vision. Paul's ability to make his teammates better. Wade's ability to clear out and score if needed. Ultimately, I think he will be very similar to Deron Williams, but better. Pretty similar in size. He's probably got better vision than Williams and is quicker, but may be a slightly lesser shooter. He seriously is a player that can come right into the NBA and make a bad team legit. I would not be surprised to see him put up 20 ppg, 5 rebs, 10 asts right off the bat.

 

I don't see him putting up Deron's numbers. I think deron is the better player.

 

What makes Deron better? Rose is quicker at the same size (6'3" 205 vs. 6'3" 210). Rose is a better finisher. Rose has better court vision. Rose is being compared favorably to Kidd. While Deron is a good passer, he's not Kidd in his prime. I think Deron has a slightly better jumpshot, but I think if you put Rose on this year's Utah Jazz, you probably can't tell them apart aside from "possibly" turnovers in favor of Williams.

 

You think Rose is averaging 19 and 10.5 on 51% from the floor and 39% from three in his rookie season in the nba, even though he averaged 14 and 4.7 on 48% and 37% in college?

 

That's essentially my question. I think it's quite possible Rose will end up better than Deron eventually. But that's quite the leap you're suggesting he'll make. Maybe he'll prove me wrong, but until he's excelled night in and night out against top competition, I'm reluctant to say he'll be immediately as good as Williams.

 

I mean, he had trouble in the half court against Sherron Collins. And while SC is very good, an NBA superstar PG with Rose's size shouldn't have quite as much trouble with him.

[rawaction]

Rose could be a mix of a lot of things. Kidd's court vision. Paul's ability to make his teammates better. Wade's ability to clear out and score if needed. Ultimately, I think he will be very similar to Deron Williams, but better. Pretty similar in size. He's probably got better vision than Williams and is quicker, but may be a slightly lesser shooter. He seriously is a player that can come right into the NBA and make a bad team legit. I would not be surprised to see him put up 20 ppg, 5 rebs, 10 asts right off the bat.

 

I don't see him putting up Deron's numbers. I think deron is the better player.

 

What makes Deron better? Rose is quicker at the same size (6'3" 205 vs. 6'3" 210). Rose is a better finisher. Rose has better court vision. Rose is being compared favorably to Kidd. While Deron is a good passer, he's not Kidd in his prime. I think Deron has a slightly better jumpshot, but I think if you put Rose on this year's Utah Jazz, you probably can't tell them apart aside from "possibly" turnovers in favor of Williams.

 

You think Rose is averaging 19 and 10.5 on 51% from the floor and 39% from three in his rookie season in the nba, even though he averaged 14 and 4.7 on 48% and 37% in college?

 

What did Deron average in college? 11 and 5.8 on 42 and 37%. Yeah I think Rose can do that. Give him 8 more minutes per game in the NBA and better teammates, like an actual big man who has offensive moves, and he can certainly do that.

[rawaction]

Rose could be a mix of a lot of things. Kidd's court vision. Paul's ability to make his teammates better. Wade's ability to clear out and score if needed. Ultimately, I think he will be very similar to Deron Williams, but better. Pretty similar in size. He's probably got better vision than Williams and is quicker, but may be a slightly lesser shooter. He seriously is a player that can come right into the NBA and make a bad team legit. I would not be surprised to see him put up 20 ppg, 5 rebs, 10 asts right off the bat.

 

I don't see him putting up Deron's numbers. I think deron is the better player.

 

What makes Deron better? Rose is quicker at the same size (6'3" 205 vs. 6'3" 210). Rose is a better finisher. Rose has better court vision. Rose is being compared favorably to Kidd. While Deron is a good passer, he's not Kidd in his prime. I think Deron has a slightly better jumpshot, but I think if you put Rose on this year's Utah Jazz, you probably can't tell them apart aside from "possibly" turnovers in favor of Williams.

 

You think Rose is averaging 19 and 10.5 on 51% from the floor and 39% from three in his rookie season in the nba, even though he averaged 14 and 4.7 on 48% and 37% in college?

 

That's essentially my question. I think it's quite possible Rose will end up better than Deron eventually. But that's quite the leap you're suggesting he'll make. Maybe he'll prove me wrong, but until he's excelled night in and night out against top competition, I'm reluctant to say he'll be immediately as good as Williams.

 

I mean, he had trouble in the half court against Sherron Collins. And while SC is very good, an NBA superstar PG with Rose's size shouldn't have quite as much trouble with him.

 

1 game sample

[snoodmonger]

Rose could be a mix of a lot of things. Kidd's court vision. Paul's ability to make his teammates better. Wade's ability to clear out and score if needed. Ultimately, I think he will be very similar to Deron Williams, but better. Pretty similar in size. He's probably got better vision than Williams and is quicker, but may be a slightly lesser shooter. He seriously is a player that can come right into the NBA and make a bad team legit. I would not be surprised to see him put up 20 ppg, 5 rebs, 10 asts right off the bat.

 

I don't see him putting up Deron's numbers. I think deron is the better player.

 

What makes Deron better? Rose is quicker at the same size (6'3" 205 vs. 6'3" 210). Rose is a better finisher. Rose has better court vision. Rose is being compared favorably to Kidd. While Deron is a good passer, he's not Kidd in his prime. I think Deron has a slightly better jumpshot, but I think if you put Rose on this year's Utah Jazz, you probably can't tell them apart aside from "possibly" turnovers in favor of Williams.

 

You think Rose is averaging 19 and 10.5 on 51% from the floor and 39% from three in his rookie season in the nba, even though he averaged 14 and 4.7 on 48% and 37% in college?

 

That's essentially my question. I think it's quite possible Rose will end up better than Deron eventually. But that's quite the leap you're suggesting he'll make. Maybe he'll prove me wrong, but until he's excelled night in and night out against top competition, I'm reluctant to say he'll be immediately as good as Williams.

 

I mean, he had trouble in the half court against Sherron Collins. And while SC is very good, an NBA superstar PG with Rose's size shouldn't have quite as much trouble with him.

 

1 game sample

 

 

I agree. But it still could be telling. Overall, though, I'm just not ready to anoint him the second or third best PG in the NBA based on projections and comparisons.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Bill Walker is not an elite talent. In order to be an elite talent you need to be at a level above "bad" at putting the ball in the basket. He's not big enough to be a 3 and he can't shoot enough to be a 2.

Right, Walker wasn't good at putting the ball in the hole. 16 ppg on almost 47% shooting is a level above "bad".

 

He's 6'5" and he doesn't have a jumpshot(30% from 3, a lot of his FG% is on post moves and putbacks), that's simply not going to play in the NBA, and it's why he's a supporting player in college.

[stuy119]

Just waxing nostalgic here, but I wish more players would stay until the end of their Junior year. There is a ton of young talent out there, and the NCAA tournament was EXCELLENT this year. I can't help but imagine how good teams like UNC and UCLA (not to mention KSU, KU, Memphis, etc.) would be in another year or two.

 

Not to mention OSU probably would have had LeBron, Oden, and Conley last year. That would have been fun to watch.

[Derwood]

Just waxing nostalgic here, but I wish more players would stay until the end of their Junior year. There is a ton of young talent out there, and the NCAA tournament was EXCELLENT this year. I can't help but imagine how good teams like UNC and UCLA (not to mention KSU, KU, Memphis, etc.) would be in another year or two.

 

Not to mention OSU probably would have had LeBron, Oden, and Conley last year. That would have been fun to watch.

 

the next CBA for the NBA will probably have Stern pushing that issue

[illiniguy]

Bill Walker is not an elite talent. In order to be an elite talent you need to be at a level above "bad" at putting the ball in the basket. He's not big enough to be a 3 and he can't shoot enough to be a 2.

Right, Walker wasn't good at putting the ball in the hole. 16 ppg on almost 47% shooting is a level above "bad".

 

He's 6'5" and he doesn't have a jumpshot(30% from 3, a lot of his FG% is on post moves and putbacks), that's simply not going to play in the NBA, and it's why he's a supporting player in college.

Right, but in college where they were it does play. He was an elite level in college and Beasley still didn't lead his team to the kind of record I would expect from a franchise type player. Maybe I shouldn't worry about that, but I would have liked to have seen him carry his team to more wins.

[Guest]

Derrick Rose will declare later this week and hire an agent, per reports.

[Guest]

Kevin Love and Russell Westbrook will announce their intentions to enter the draft but not hire an agent this afternoon at 1.

[RynoRules]

Kevin Love and Russell Westbrook will announce their intentions to enter the draft but not hire an agent this afternoon at 1.

 

To me, Westbrook would be a perfect fit for the Bulls.

[shnsajax]

Just waxing nostalgic here, but I wish more players would stay until the end of their Junior year. There is a ton of young talent out there, and the NCAA tournament was EXCELLENT this year. I can't help but imagine how good teams like UNC and UCLA (not to mention KSU, KU, Memphis, etc.) would be in another year or two.

 

Not to mention OSU probably would have had LeBron, Oden, and Conley last year. That would have been fun to watch.

 

the next CBA for the NBA will probably have Stern pushing that issue

 

Yeah Texas with LaMarcus Aldridge, Durant, and Augustine would have been cool, not near as good as O$U but still.

 

I have said it many times, I would like to see the NBA have a tiered rookie $ max. If you stay in college only 1 year you can only make so much, 2 years a little more, 3 years a little more, 4 years a little more.

[snoodmonger]

Brandon Rush now officially entering the draft.

 

Darrell Arthur entering but not signing an agent. He says if goes in the top half, he's gonzo. If not, he might return.

 

 

"I thought this would be the best way to go through with it, without an agent," Arthur said. "If it's good, I'll stay, if not, I'll come back and try to get another national championship."

 

http://www2.kusports.com/news/2008/apr/17/rush_arthur_hold_330_pm_press_conference_regarding/?mens_basketball