Felix Pie

[TruffleShuffle]

Anybody check out Aramis Ramirez's first 600 PA in the majors?

 

that's what i'm saying. it's not like felix pie is jason dubois, a relatively polished player arriving in the big leagues who should already have a pretty good idea of how to hit big league pitching. pie is very talented, just like aramis was; aramis was clueless at the plate early on, but he had the natural ability and enough smarts to learn some plate discipline, and he ended up becoming a great player. unpolished players - and Lord knows that the cubs can churn these out, since the organization has no idea how to teach plate discipline - need more time to adjust at the big league level than guys who already have a good sense of pitch recognition and working the count. pie was pretty average in his first crack at iowa, then tore the league up in 2007. let's give him some time to see if he can make similar adjustments at this level. if not, then he's a bust, but there's no sense giving up on him right now.

 

why don't you share the same patience with ronny cedeno? he's looked bad in his 1st 600 major league at bats, just like aramis, brandon phillips, jose reyes, and probably quite a bit more. but you've given up any hope of cedeno being good.

 

cedeno had one full year of play at age 23; aramis' poor performances came at age 20 and 22. when he was 23, he hit .300 with 34 home runs. jose reyes was also beating up the big leagues by age 23. brandon phillips is probably your best example. i guess that guys like aramis, phillips and reyes were all regarded as elite-level prospects, guys who had outstanding tools, and their tools enabled them to overcome their early struggles and their poor approach at the plate. cedeno doesn't have top-level tools, and i don't think that he has the skill or the intuition to make the necessary adjustments at the big league level. pie might not either, but i hold out more hope for him.

[TruffleShuffle]

Willie Mays also used to be 23. Just saying.

 

yeah but so was hitler.

[rocket]

Anybody check out Aramis Ramirez's first 600 PA in the majors?

 

that's what i'm saying. it's not like felix pie is jason dubois, a relatively polished player arriving in the big leagues who should already have a pretty good idea of how to hit big league pitching. pie is very talented, just like aramis was; aramis was clueless at the plate early on, but he had the natural ability and enough smarts to learn some plate discipline, and he ended up becoming a great player. unpolished players - and Lord knows that the cubs can churn these out, since the organization has no idea how to teach plate discipline - need more time to adjust at the big league level than guys who already have a good sense of pitch recognition and working the count. pie was pretty average in his first crack at iowa, then tore the league up in 2007. let's give him some time to see if he can make similar adjustments at this level. if not, then he's a bust, but there's no sense giving up on him right now.

 

why don't you share the same patience with ronny cedeno? he's looked bad in his 1st 600 major league at bats, just like aramis, brandon phillips, jose reyes, and probably quite a bit more. but you've given up any hope of cedeno being good.

 

cedeno had one full year of play at age 23; aramis' poor performances came at age 20 and 22. when he was 23, he hit .300 with 34 home runs. jose reyes was also beating up the big leagues by age 23. brandon phillips is probably your best example. i guess that guys like aramis, phillips and reyes were all regarded as elite-level prospects, guys who had outstanding tools, and their tools enabled them to overcome their early struggles and their poor approach at the plate. cedeno doesn't have top-level tools, and i don't think that he has the skill or the intuition to make the necessary adjustments at the big league level. pie might not either, but i hold out more hope for him.

 

perhaps true. but i don't think the cubs should ask cedeno to be the next reyes, phillips, etc. they should ask him to out-produce theriot, which i think he can do pretty easily given a full time job. his 2006 season in the majors notwithstanding.

[SouthSideRyan]

cedeno had one full year of play at age 23; aramis' poor performances came at age 20 and 22.

 

That's out there.

[imb]

cedeno had one full year of play at age 23; aramis' poor performances came at age 20 and 22.

 

That's out there.

 

aramis' had a poor season when he was a full 365 days younger than cedeno. time to write ronny off

[BigbadB]

Player A: .271 .312 .372 641 major league AB's at age 22

Player B: .203 .240 .335 1031 major league at bats at age 22

Player C: .256 .293 .402 561 major league at bats at age 22

Player D: .233 .318 .414 508 major league at bats at age 22

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Player A) Ryne Sandberg

Player B) Sammy Sosa

Player C) Aramis Ramirez

Player D) Derrek Lee

 

All of these guys should have been dumped by their respective teams, too!

[TruffleShuffle]

cedeno had one full year of play at age 23; aramis' poor performances came at age 20 and 22.

 

That's out there.

 

aramis' had a poor season when he was a full 365 days younger than cedeno. time to write ronny off

 

aramis also cut his strikeout rate in half from his age 20 big league debut, and had a .700 OPS, not .610.

[sharkfan50]

BJ Upton at 23 years of age has show that he can have success at the ML level. Pie has not. The only comparisons between the two are their age.

 

Sosa wouldn't have been the player he turned out to be in any other era, Wink, Wink.

Edited April 4, 2008 by sharkfan50

[Schwarber Fan]

I think the most frustrating part is we heard all offseason how Pie is going to work on his patience, and shorten his swing etc and yet we see the same lost Pie at the plate.

[Guest]

OMG, it's been 4 games.

[jersey cubs fan]

I think the most frustrating part is we heard all offseason how Pie is going to work on his patience, and shorten his swing etc and yet we see the same lost Pie at the plate.

 

spot on

[sweetpeteman]

I never thought that Pie would be one of those players that came up and immediately mashed. To me, he is one who will need time, probably around a full season, to adjust. If I recall, he has always been kind of like this, especially in AAA. I remember people freaked when he was doing poorly in '06 in AAA, but turned it on late in the season and mashed last year.

[Schwarber Fan]

OMG, it's been 4 games.

 

I'll agree with you if we are talking about the 2008 Cubs.

 

We are talking about Felix Pie, who has had more than 4 games.

[reds44]

Brandon Phillips is a bust, too.

I don't think the Cubs want Felix Pie turning into Brandon Phillips, because that means he won't bust out until he is on his 2nd team.

Edited April 4, 2008 by reds44

[reds44]

It certainly is not an overreaction. The problem most Cub fans have is admitting that he's just another in the long line of overhyped and overrated Cub prospects. So they keep making exuses that he's still only 23 years of age or he still only has 175 ab's.

 

The comparison's to Patterson are not fair but the one thing you can compare these 2 together is that Corey Patterson was once 23 years of age and Corey Patterson once only had 175 ab's and Cub fans were saying the exact same thing about him then. Meanwhile they could've traded him while his value was atleast fairly high but they didn't and that didn't turn out too well did it. Then all of you who were saying to give COrey time to develope, rip Hendry for not trading him and getting something back for him while he had some value.

 

Admit it Cub fans and stop making excuses for him, he will never live up to your expectations. He has showed me zero. This isn't the Minor Leagues no more Johnny. He's a bust.

Thankfully the Rangers traded away Sammy Sosa while they could before he discovered steroids.

[BigbadB]

BJ Upton at 20 years of age has show that he can have success at the ML level. Pie has not.

 

Sosa wouldn't have been the player he turned out to be in any other era, Wink, Wink.

 

Huh? Here's BJ's age 20 season: .246 .302 .291

[Guest]

OMG, it's been 4 games.

 

I'll agree with you if we are talking about the 2008 Cubs.

 

We are talking about Felix Pie, who has had more than 4 games.

 

Trying to draw much out of a young, raw players initial season with at bats scattered all over the place generally doesn't give a great idea.

[illiniguy]

It certainly is not an overreaction. The problem most Cub fans have is admitting that he's just another in the long line of overhyped and overrated Cub prospects. So they keep making exuses that he's still only 23 years of age or he still only has 175 ab's.

 

The comparison's to Patterson are not fair but the one thing you can compare these 2 together is that Corey Patterson was once 23 years of age and Corey Patterson once only had 175 ab's and Cub fans were saying the exact same thing about him then. Meanwhile they could've traded him while his value was atleast fairly high but they didn't and that didn't turn out too well did it. Then all of you who were saying to give COrey time to develope, rip Hendry for not trading him and getting something back for him while he had some value.

 

Admit it Cub fans and stop making excuses for him, he will never live up to your expectations. He has showed me zero. This isn't the Minor Leagues no more Johnny. He's a bust.

Thankfully the Rangers traded away Sammy Sosa while they could before he discovered steroids.

Yeah it is such a sure thing he did steroids, yet no one ever has come out in public and accused him. Well no one who is important anyways.

[imb]

cedeno had one full year of play at age 23; aramis' poor performances came at age 20 and 22.

 

That's out there.

 

aramis' had a poor season when he was a full 365 days younger than cedeno. time to write ronny off

 

aramis also cut his strikeout rate in half from his age 20 big league debut, and had a .700 OPS, not .610.

 

i cant tell if you really don't think Cedeno could ever possibly be a decent option or if you just are sticking with an irrational point for the hell of it

[illiniguy]

BJ Upton at 20 years of age has show that he can have success at the ML level. Pie has not.

 

Sosa wouldn't have been the player he turned out to be in any other era, Wink, Wink.

 

Huh? Here's BJ's age 20 season: .246 .302 .291

But, he wasn't a cub so he proved he could mash with those numbers.

[TruffleShuffle]

even if sosa used steroids, most of the league was also using them, and he also had a great deal of natural talent.

[sharkfan50]

It was a typo BB. Edited already.

[reds44]

OMG, it's been 4 games.

 

I'll agree with you if we are talking about the 2008 Cubs.

 

We are talking about Felix Pie, who has had more than 4 games.

 

Trying to draw much out of a young, raw players initial season with at bats scattered all over the place generally doesn't give a great idea.

The problem is the Cubs are trying to develop Pie and the major league level and compete at the same time. There is no doubt Pie has all the talent, but it's not a sure thing he will ever put it together. There is no way you should write him off after 200 AB's either. He just is what he has been for his entire career so far, a project.

 

When the rest of the Cubs start hitting and the Cubs start winning games, it will take a lot of the spotlight off of Pie. As long as he plays good defense in CF, I think the Cubs can stick with him.

[TruffleShuffle]

cedeno had one full year of play at age 23; aramis' poor performances came at age 20 and 22.

 

That's out there.

 

aramis' had a poor season when he was a full 365 days younger than cedeno. time to write ronny off

 

aramis also cut his strikeout rate in half from his age 20 big league debut, and had a .700 OPS, not .610.

 

i cant tell if you really don't think Cedeno could ever possibly be a decent option or if you just are sticking with an irrational point for the hell of it

 

i like how it's an irrational point yet there have been very few examples provided of guys who completely sucked for a whole year at age 23 and turned into better than better than average big league players. it's also fun to bash points as being "irrational" without providing much evidence to support this. i don't think i'm the only person on this board who thinks cedeno will not be a good option, and i don't think that most of the people who are anti-cedeno feel that way because we are in love with ryan theriot's grit and hard work.

[frostwyrm]

It'd certainly be nice if the Cubs would give Pie this whole season to adjust, but it ain't gonna happen. Hendry needs to win now or he's unemployed this fall. I guarantee you he'll make a move if Pie still looks bad in late May. Juan Pierre will probably still be available.