Dusty Hates Young Players

[reds44]

Or does he?

 

On Cueto:

This just in: Johnny Cueto's good.

 

He went four innings against Phillies and allowed a hit, a walk, hit a batter and struck out two. 49 pitches, 33 strikes.

 

He worked out of a jam -- thanks to a Ryan Howard double play -- after giving up a single and hitting a batter in the sixth. That was the only trouble he get in. He faced the minimum nine batters in the seventh, eighth and ninth.

 

He faced the heart of the Phillies' order twice. He retired Chase Utley, Ryan Howard and Pat Burrell a second time to close out the game.

 

Cueto's up to nine innings this spring. He's allowed one run on six hits. He's walked one and struck out eight.

 

I see no way he doesn't make the rotation.

 

Dusty Baker gushed a bit about Cueto before the game. He said he didn't spend a lot of time reading reports on the Cueto before spring training.

 

“I read but I scanned,” Baker said. “I didn’t want to be persuaded one way or other, so I didn’t really study, study. . . I’m not distrusting of reports; it’s just I trust my own eyes more.”

 

So what do his eyes tell him?

 

“Same thing yours tell you,” Baker said.

 

That is to say Cueto has off-the-chart stuff.

 

“I’ve had some really good people tell me about Cueto – guys from other organizations who had nothing to gain by telling me what they told me,” Baker said.

Cueto has looked extremely good.

 

“Spring ain’t over,” Baker said. “Just pitch, son, that’s all. No pressure, no expectations. Just pitch.

 

“I’ve got some expectations. I ain’t going to tell him yet. That comes later. Next year or two years.”

 

 

Defending Bailey:

Dusty Baker wants everyone to relax a bit on Homer Bailey. In the short time, Baker's been around Bailey he's seen progress. He's willing to let yesterday's 2 1/3-innings, two-run, 59-pitch effort slide.

 

“I can go on the progress I’ve seen since I’ve been here. Yesterday was the first time that he wasn’t pitch-efficient since I’ve been here."

 

Baker elaborated a bit on the whole Bailey situation.

 

“It’s not easy being Homer. I’ve seen it a thousand times. It’s not easy being that Mr. Everything, Can’t-Miss Kid. . . I learned years ago that the most dangerous word for a kid is potential. If they don’t do great, then no matter what they do, they don’t reach that potential.

 

“Sometimes it takes longer to get than others. What is Homer 21 years old? This dude is barely drinking age. There are kids in college who haven’t signed a contract who are still pitching. Homer has this experience already. That’s the thing. Let’s not forget, his dude is three years ahead of whoever’s going to be in this year’s draft.

 

“He may not be where you want him to be, or where we want him to be, or where he wants to be, but he’s still ahead of the program. Two or three years from now, we might have another thought process.”

 

On Edinson Volquez:

Volquez was throwing great. I like his attitude. He doesn't want to give up anything. He's not one of those six-innings, three-runs-or-less quality start guys. He gets upset when he gives up anything."

 

More on Cueto:

"Who's looked better than him?"

 

On making the big leagues after so little Triple-A time: "Everybody doesn't have to go through the natural progression, especially pitchers. Hitters have more they have to work on."

 

"If you have good stuff, you can make hitters swing and miss and foul off pitches off. Ninety-five is 95. Ninety-five with location, boy."

 

It was pointed out that Cueto hit 97. "I believe that -- 97 with location and nasty change-up and slider."

 

And he's had abunch of positive things to say about Jay Bruce, Paul Janish, Adam Rosales, and Chris Dickerson. He certainly doesn't sound as bad as Cubs fan have made him out to be. We'll see what hapens come the time when we have to set our roster and when the games start counting.

 

On a related note, all signs point to Johnny Cueto (20) and Edinson Volquez (24) finding their way in the rotation to start the season. I'm sure all I hear about now is how Dusty will kill their arms.

[Flames24Rulz]

Or does he?

 

On Cueto:

“I read but I scanned,” Baker said. “I didn’t want to be persuaded one way or other, so I didn’t really study, study. . . I’m not distrusting of reports; it’s just I trust my own eyes more.”

 

That is absolutely hilarious. To hell with the damn scouts and everyone that works in the minor league system. I have to see it with my own eyes to believe he's a great player.

[KingCubsFan]

Dusty says a lot of things, particularly in spring training. If you want, go back and read what he had to say about Murton, Cedeno, etc. In the end, all he needs is a veteran to use as an excuse. But Dusty isn't afraid to abuse young pitchers. If the Reds are even close to being in the race, you can definitely expect Bailey and Cueto to have a bunch of 110, 120 pitch games, particularly with the Reds bullpen. But when Corey Patterson starts leading off, I'll be surprised if they're in the race.

[reds44]

Dusty says a lot of things, particularly in spring training. If you want, go back and read what he had to say about Murton, Cedeno, etc. In the end, all he needs is a veteran to use as an excuse. But Dusty isn't afraid to abuse young pitchers. If the Reds are even close to being in the race, you can definitely expect Bailey and Cueto to have a bunch of 110, 120 pitch games, particularly with the Reds bullpen. But when Corey Patterson starts leading off, I'll be surprised if they're in the race.

Bailey is going to be in AAA. He's 3rd on the young arms depth chart right now.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

He'll like Cuetto so much that he'll run him out there for 120 pitch outings on a consistent basis.

[E.J.]

I don't think it's ever been said that Dusty doesn't like young pitchers. Now young position players on the other hand...

[Tyrant]

 

He certainly doesn't sound as bad as Cubs fan have made him out to be.

 

Oh, you're so naive. I'm sorry.

[Ding Dong Johnson]

I don't think it's ever been said that Dusty doesn't like young pitchers. Now young position players on the other hand...

he hasn't met one that he wouldn't ride into the ground yet

[Bote McBoteface]

No no no, it isn't that Dusty doesn't like young players. Mark Prior, Carlos Zambrano, Corey Patterson, and Hee Seop Choi all got more than enough playing time with Dusty managing.

 

The problem is, if they mess up once, they're benched for good in favor of crappy veterans. He then tries to change their approach, like he's doing to Votto.

 

If they're a pitcher that's young, he'll run them into the ground like he did Z, Prior, and Wood.

 

Trust me, you'll see.

[Little Slide Rooter]

Can you blame him? Think about it, aside from Zambrano, every Cubs prospect to hit the bigs during Dustys reign in Chicago was a bust, and while you can say what you will about him, you cant blame him for all of them.

[CubinNY]

Can you blame him?

Yes, early and often.

[KingCubsFan]

Can you blame him? Think about it, aside from Zambrano, every Cubs prospect to hit the bigs during Dustys reign in Chicago was a bust, and while you can say what you will about him, you cant blame him for all of them.

Choi might be the only one who would have been a bust no matter who was his manager. Prior was abused, Cruz never got a chance, Corey was destroyed, Bobby Hill never got a chance (and by the time he got a chance with the Pirates, it was probably too late), etc. Dusty Baker singlehandedly set this organization back a few years. I think he'll do the same with the Reds

[SouthSideRyan]

Nobody plays more young guys during spring training than me.

Edited March 13, 2008 by SouthSideRyan

[radarluv1]

how did dusty use young arms in SF? i dont remember if he even had any there.

[YearofDaCubs]

I didn't know Cueto was that damn good. 97 with change and slider?

[YearofDaCubs]

how did dusty use young arms in SF? i dont remember if he even had any there.

A lot of people believe he had a lot to do with Livan Hernandez losing his velocity by running him into the ground when he was with the Giants.

[BigbadB]

Dusty says a lot of things, particularly in spring training. If you want, go back and read what he had to say about Murton, Cedeno, etc. In the end, all he needs is a veteran to use as an excuse. But Dusty isn't afraid to abuse young pitchers. If the Reds are even close to being in the race, you can definitely expect Bailey and Cueto to have a bunch of 110, 120 pitch games, particularly with the Reds bullpen. But when Corey Patterson starts leading off, I'll be surprised if they're in the race.

Bailey is going to be in AAA. He's 3rd on the young arms depth chart right now.

 

Oh, Baker likes young pitchers. We won't argue with you there. He liked Prior so much that he left him out there inning after inning after inning after inning, infinity.

 

Prior was a rookie in 2002. He pitched 59 innings in the minors and 116 for the Cubs. 2003 was his first full season in the majors. All told, Prior threw 211 innings in the regular season at the ripe young age of 22. If 211 innings isn't bad enough, let's add 23 more during the 2003 playoffs.

 

At age 22, Prior threw 234 innings.

 

Now let's look at his 2003 game log.

 

130 pitches or more- 3 games

120-129 pitches- 6 games

111-119 pitches- 10 games

101-110 pitches- 7 games

99 or less pitches- 4 games

 

A lot of folks gave up on Mark Prior with this team. A lot of people called him a wuss. A lot of people got very frustrated that he always seems like he's hurt.

 

Truth be told, Dusty Baker beat the hell out of Prior in 2003, and he never recovered.

 

Let's look at my favorite game from 2003:

 

On September 1st, the Cubs had a 7-0 lead on St. Louis after 6 innings. Prior ended up pitching 8 innings and throwing 131 pitches. Brilliant!

 

Not to be outdone, Zambrano threw 232 innings in 2003 at the age of 23. Wood threw 241 innings in 2003. Kerry had a 141 pitch outing on May 10th.

 

The game logs from 2003 say it all. Someone else can post the PAP numbers from the Dusty era in Chicago. Cubs starters were at or near the top every year Dusty was in charge. I want to say that all three (Prior, Wood and Zambrano) were in the top 5 for pitcher abuse in 2003.

[wade]

Well said, BBB. I was also going to point out that Dusty's never really held back a young pitcher.

 

Dusty seems to downplay vets for getting doubled up twice a week on routine fly balls and bury talented youngsters on the bench because they miss a sign. That's probably not real out of the ordinary for most managers, but he seems to do it a lot.

 

What's more frustrating to me about him is his love for small ball no matter the circumstances.

[wolf stansson]

Or does he?

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y274/krkhinrich/untitled-8.jpg

[TruffleShuffle]

poor reds44. he's just like a lot of us were in 2003. some giants fans tried to warn us, but dusty talked a pretty good game and came with a good career record.

 

the time will come when he realizes what dusty really is. it will not be pretty.

[Schwarber Fan]

LOL, so he praises some of their best prospects and so that means he's not going to be same old Dusty? Keep telling yourself that, reds44.

[imb]

what this thread needs is more anonymous bashing of vance's family

[Burtonbell]

Oh...dear...lord!

[Ding Dong Johnson]

Or does he?

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y274/krkhinrich/untitled-8.jpg

I'll forever be in awe of the mad photoshop (ms paint) skillz

[reds44]

I didn't know Cueto was that damn good. 97 with change and slider?

I have been preaching Cueto over Homer for well over a year now, and people are finally starting to come around. He has pinpoint control as well. The only reason he wasn't getting more hype then Bailey is because he is only 5-11. Edinson Volquez was making the Yankees look silly (8 Ks, 0 BB in 4 IP) with his heat (upper 90s) and change the other night. He's a step below Cueto though because his curve/slider is a work in progress.