Crasnick article on Pie

[mul21]

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/spring2008/columns/story?columnist=crasnick_jerry&id=3282307&lpos=spotlight&lid=tab6pos1

 

Felix Pie, CF, Cubs

 

 

 

The Cubs dabbled in acquiring a veteran center fielder in the offseason. They expressed interest in the Angels' Chone Figgins, but found him cost-prohibitive. And they discussed a Matt Murton-for-Marlon Byrd deal with Texas, only to find the Rangers weren't buying.

 

So now it's come down to the overachieving Stanford economics major, Sam Fuld, vs. the perennial prospect, Pie. While Pie isn't guaranteed a spot in Chicago's Opening Day lineup, he appears to have the best chance of anyone on this list of breaking camp with the big club. Manager Lou Piniella has consistently hinted that it's Pie's job to lose.

 

At 23, Pie already has 2,171 at-bats in the minor leagues. Last year he hit .362 with a .963 OPS in Iowa, so there's not much left for him to prove in the Pacific Coast League.

 

 

Right now Pie has three things to overcome: (1) A swing that's a tad long, (2) a tendency to expand his strike zone too readily and (3) trouble with breaking balls. Will Piniella be patient with the kid as the Cubs try to get off to a fast start? We'll see.

 

 

"I think it's put-up-or-shut-up time with this guy,'' a scout said. "At some point, you have to let him play his way on or off the team. I don't think you're going to know with him until he plays half a season and gets 300 at-bats.''

 

 

Or 600. Even if Pie takes his lumps offensively, he's likely to be hitting in the No. 8 spot. He also has the speed, glove and arm to contribute when he's not hitting. As we saw with Dustin Pedroia in Boston last season, Pie's grace period could hinge in part on how well the Cubs play in April and May.

[CuseCubFan69]

I'd like to see the Cubs just let him go out there and play year in and year out and improve like he did in the minors.

[YearofDaCubs]

I'd like to see the Cubs just let him go out there and play year in and year out and improve like he did in the minors.

Agreed. The only way he can adjust and learn from his mistakes is by playing. No other way around it.

[UMFan83]

I think Crasnick's assessment is very fair. Time to put up or shut up Pie. However, due to the Cubs track record for developing prospects, I don't see the Cubs giving him more than 2 months to prove himself before they start looking at other options.

[cbbryan]

Pedroia is a great example. Also, the Yanks have done similar things with Cano, Melky Cabrera, and to a certain extent Alfonso Soriano when he was there.

 

Lou needs to stick w/ Pie and Pie needs to know that it's his job so he can settle in and not press.

[CubinNY]

I'm not understanding the expectation level. Do they expect him to be good, great, or an all-star? It's almost unbelievable. If he hits .270/.335/.450 in his first year is he automatically a bust?

[TruffleShuffle]

I'm not understanding the expectation level. Do they expect him to be good, great, or an all-star? It's almost unbelievable. If he hits .270/.335/.450 in his first year is he automatically a bust?

 

i think the cubs will be thrilled if he puts up numbers like that. the problem will be if he puts up a line like, say, .215/.271/.333.

[CubinNY]

I'm not understanding the expectation level. Do they expect him to be good, great, or an all-star? It's almost unbelievable. If he hits .270/.335/.450 in his first year is he automatically a bust?

 

i think the cubs will be thrilled if he puts up numbers like that. the problem will be if he puts up a line like, say, .215/.271/.333.

If they leave him alone he will be fine.

[TruffleShuffle]

I'm not understanding the expectation level. Do they expect him to be good, great, or an all-star? It's almost unbelievable. If he hits .270/.335/.450 in his first year is he automatically a bust?

 

i think the cubs will be thrilled if he puts up numbers like that. the problem will be if he puts up a line like, say, .215/.271/.333.

If they leave him alone he will be fine.

 

i have thought that about a lot of cubs' hitting prospects.

[cbbryan]

I'm not understanding the expectation level. Do they expect him to be good, great, or an all-star? It's almost unbelievable. If he hits .270/.335/.450 in his first year is he automatically a bust?

 

i think the cubs will be thrilled if he puts up numbers like that. the problem will be if he puts up a line like, say, .215/.271/.333.

If they leave him alone he will be fine.

 

i have thought that about a lot of cubs' hitting prospects.

 

There's been a few I've thought like that about, but I think Pie is a little different player then the Cubs have ever had.

 

I really think he was pressing last year. The OF offensive production as a whole was down so the leash was pulled tight on everyone. However, this year with the addition of Fukudome and hopefully an improved Soriano the Cubs can afford to throw Pie in CF and take what he give you. He'll be streaky. He's always been a streaky hitter, but when he's seeing the ball well he can hit with the best of them. If they allow him to settle in he could develop into an All-Star, IMO. Not to mention he'd probably win a few gold gloves in CF.

[Derwood]

I don't remember a Cubs prospect (outside of Corey Patterson) in the past 10 years who the Cubs just let play without platooning, moving in and out of the lineup, or generally just jerking around.

[Ding Dong Johnson]

ah yes, the age of 23 -- the all important time to put up or shut up in the major leagues

[David]

I'm not understanding the expectation level. Do they expect him to be good, great, or an all-star? It's almost unbelievable. If he hits .270/.335/.450 in his first year is he automatically a bust?

 

 

That's a near .800 OPS out of a rookie CF. That would almost be the opposite of bust, IMO.

[JonnyRed]

Man, everyone talks about Pie like he is already a 26 year old washout. Wouldn't the 3 improvement areas mentioned be pretty typical for prospects trying to break into the bigs? Pie has shown a propensity to hit at every level, and if given the chance, I expect him to do it in the majors as well.

[TheDude]

Pedroia is a great example. Also, the Yanks have done similar things with Cano, Melky Cabrera, and to a certain extent Alfonso Soriano when he was there.

To be fair, those teams, for those years, could have plugged a washing machine in the lineup and still been 90-100 win teams. The Cubs can't make that claim, so the situations are not overly analogous.

 

This is not an anti-Pie sentiment. Given the state of the division compared to the Cubs, there is no reason Pie should be benched or in AAA for 2008.

[cbbryan]

Pedroia is a great example. Also, the Yanks have done similar things with Cano, Melky Cabrera, and to a certain extent Alfonso Soriano when he was there.

To be fair, those teams, for those years, could have plugged a washing machine in the lineup and still been 90-100 win teams. The Cubs can't make that claim, so the situations are not overly analogous.

 

This is not an anti-Pie sentiment. Given the state of the division compared to the Cubs, there is no reason Pie should be benched or in AAA for 2008.

 

Those Yankee teams where battling for their division as where the Red Sox. They certainly where great teams without those players, but to a certain extent the Cubs are in a similar position within their division. Other then Milwaukee I would be surprised to see anyone be uber competitive and with the additions of Fukudome and Soriano being more comfortable (hopefully no leg issues) I think the Cubs are at liberty to play Pie in CF everyday.

[craig]

I have no problem with the Cub handling of Pie thus far. He had a good opportunity to win the job last year but didn't.

1. Contrary to the complaint that he's not being given a chance or being written off prematurely, he got his 177 AB (quite a few for a rookie, actually), and doesn't seem to have lost any status in the organization.

 

2. They didn't give up on him. Instead they traded away the only competition on the roster (Jones), and have basically given Pie the job this spring. If the only "competition" being little sammy Fuld is too scary, then Pie's got a problem!

 

3. They have probably had chances to trade pie, but by accounts they seem to have highly valued him and protected him and marked him as off-limits, at least for normal players. (Might have been different if Twins were offering Santana....)

 

4. They could have pursued one of the FA CFers this winter: Torii Hunter, Andruw Jones, Rowand. But other than limited interest in Rowand for RF, they completely passed on the CF pool. Because they were committed to giving Pie an opportunity.

 

5. By Hendry's own account early in offseason, he wanted a RH-hitting CFer for reserve. There has been no suggestion that he looked for a LH starting CFer. Only for a RH bench/possible-platoon CFer. What's wrong with that? Pie has consistently been a very weak hitter vs LHP in the minors. What would be so horrible about letting him have the 500 AB versus RHP where he's most likely to succeed, and possibly protect him a bit vs LHP until/unless he's performing well against them?

 

Seems to me that they have done everything possible to set things up to give Pie the position. He fumbled it last season after they gave it to him. But now they've given it back to him anyway. It hardly seems that they have been hard on him.

 

6. Some are complaining that they should just "let him alone". I'm no expert. I know it's the board premise that anything done by Cub management is wrong, destructive, or idiotic. Not to be heretic or get banned from the board, but I think it's at least theoretically possible that some coaching might help him. Shorten the swing some? Use the other field some? Take more pitches? Those inputs by Lou make good sense to me; do they sound so horrible? A smart poster on other board said that Pie's swing looks more compact this spring; if that a terrible thing if Lou made suggestions to that effect? I don't see why that would be so bad.

[radarluv1]

you think there would be enough pitching talent in AAA to exploit all these weaknesses, if they're that glaring. but he raked last year.

i'd be interested to see how he did against the best AAA pitchers vs the roster fillers

[CuseCubFan69]

craig....I think Lou and the hitting coaches will have a good influence on Pie. I really believe that Lou will help set up Pie to succeed for the long haul.

[cbbryan]

I didn't say the Cubs haven't given his some opportunity. He needs to play everyday though. Not 2-3 weeks stretches. By all accounts Pie is very coachable too. His swing looks shorter this spring and he's much more patient. I think bodes well for his development and his ability to adjust when needed.

 

I just want the kid to be successful and I hope Lou gives him every opportunity to be successful. Obviously, the Cubs as a team benefit if Pie fulfills his promise.

[CubinNY]

I have no problem with the Cub handling of Pie thus far. He had a good opportunity to win the job last year but didn't.

1. Contrary to the complaint that he's not being given a chance or being written off prematurely, he got his 177 AB (quite a few for a rookie, actually), and doesn't seem to have lost any status in the organization.

 

Yea, that's a bunch of b.s.

 

A handful of sporadic ABs punctuated by weeks of sitting on the bench between them.

[craig]

I have no problem with the Cub handling of Pie thus far. He had a good opportunity to win the job last year but didn't.

1. Contrary to the complaint that he's not being given a chance or being written off prematurely, he got his 177 AB (quite a few for a rookie, actually), and doesn't seem to have lost any status in the organization.

 

Yea, that's a bunch of b.s.

 

A handful of sporadic ABs punctuated by weeks of sitting on the bench between them.

 

He got 177 AB's total.

 

shttp://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/gamelog?statsId=7704&year=2007

 

Those were split over mostly two windows. If you look at the game log, he got called up and started at least 10 of his first 12 games in April (4 or more AB), and only once in those first 12 games didn't play. With a .250 OBP he got benched, and returned to Iowa. He got recalled again in June, and started almost every one of his first 20 20 games, routinely getting 4 or 5 AB. (The record shows two games with 2 AB and two games with 3 AB.) 79 AB in 20 games, that's full time opportunity. After a while, having gone hitless in five of his last 8 games, and with a .275 OBP and a .227 average, he lost his full-time job. Some sporadic bench play, back to Iowa. When he got recalled in August, he was again given a shot as the regular starter but this time a much shorter window, 4 straight starts. AFter going hitless in two of the last three, Lou bagged the idea it was sporadic defensive replacement usage with only a couple of starts the rest of the way.

 

Basically 10 start, 20 start, an 4 start windows in April, June, and August. Each in concentrated packages, and each following full-time work at Iowa. So it's not like his opportunities involved using him when he was cold off the bench, other than the few scattered AB's during the last 6 weeks.

 

The June window was really the best opportunity. If he'd have done well in April, that would have been great. But by June, they'd abandoned the Soriano-in-center experiment, it was Pie's to take and hold.

 

Are 10 and 20 start windows too short? To adequately judge a guy long-term, obviously not. But that's long enough where a guy who's hitting at Iowa could keep hitting and go from there. I understand that a 20-start window is short; pressured; and even the best of hitters go through 20-game periods where they struggle.

 

I expect it will be longer this spring. But I don't know how many outfielders are allowed to go as the regular starter with OBP in the .275-range.

 

I think Pie will make it a lot easier on everybody if he can keep his OBP on the right side of .300 early on. Then he won't need to worry about how quickly Lou will pull the plug.

[cbbryan]

I have no problem with the Cub handling of Pie thus far. He had a good opportunity to win the job last year but didn't.

1. Contrary to the complaint that he's not being given a chance or being written off prematurely, he got his 177 AB (quite a few for a rookie, actually), and doesn't seem to have lost any status in the organization.

 

Yea, that's a bunch of b.s.

 

A handful of sporadic ABs punctuated by weeks of sitting on the bench between them.

 

He got 177 AB's total.

 

shttp://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/gamelog?statsId=7704&year=2007

 

Those were split over mostly two windows. If you look at the game log, he got called up and started at least 10 of his first 12 games in April (4 or more AB), and only once in those first 12 games didn't play. With a .250 OBP he got benched, and returned to Iowa. He got recalled again in June, and started almost every one of his first 20 20 games, routinely getting 4 or 5 AB. (The record shows two games with 2 AB and two games with 3 AB.) 79 AB in 20 games, that's full time opportunity. After a while, having gone hitless in five of his last 8 games, and with a .275 OBP and a .227 average, he lost his full-time job. Some sporadic bench play, back to Iowa. When he got recalled in August, he was again given a shot as the regular starter but this time a much shorter window, 4 straight starts. AFter going hitless in two of the last three, Lou bagged the idea it was sporadic defensive replacement usage with only a couple of starts the rest of the way.

 

Basically 10 start, 20 start, an 4 start windows in April, June, and August. Each in concentrated packages, and each following full-time work at Iowa. So it's not like his opportunities involved using him when he was cold off the bench, other than the few scattered AB's during the last 6 weeks.

 

The June window was really the best opportunity. If he'd have done well in April, that would have been great. But by June, they'd abandoned the Soriano-in-center experiment, it was Pie's to take and hold.

 

Are 10 and 20 start windows too short? To adequately judge a guy long-term, obviously not. But that's long enough where a guy who's hitting at Iowa could keep hitting and go from there. I understand that a 20-start window is short; pressured; and even the best of hitters go through 20-game periods where they struggle.

 

I expect it will be longer this spring. But I don't know how many outfielders are allowed to go as the regular starter with OBP in the .275-range.

 

I think Pie will make it a lot easier on everybody if he can keep his OBP on the right side of .300 early on. Then he won't need to worry about how quickly Lou will pull the plug.

 

Check out Pedroia's first 20 games. It wasn't very pretty.

 

Also, Pie was not a "supported" starter. I think he was pressing, trying to do more then he should have been when he played because he knew his leash was short. I hope Pie comes out on fire and wins over Lou. If Lou supported Pie like he does Theriot, I'd be happy.

[CubColtPacer]

I have no problem with the Cub handling of Pie thus far. He had a good opportunity to win the job last year but didn't.

1. Contrary to the complaint that he's not being given a chance or being written off prematurely, he got his 177 AB (quite a few for a rookie, actually), and doesn't seem to have lost any status in the organization.

 

Yea, that's a bunch of b.s.

 

A handful of sporadic ABs punctuated by weeks of sitting on the bench between them.

 

He got 177 AB's total.

 

shttp://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/gamelog?statsId=7704&year=2007

 

Those were split over mostly two windows. If you look at the game log, he got called up and started at least 10 of his first 12 games in April (4 or more AB), and only once in those first 12 games didn't play. With a .250 OBP he got benched, and returned to Iowa. He got recalled again in June, and started almost every one of his first 20 20 games, routinely getting 4 or 5 AB. (The record shows two games with 2 AB and two games with 3 AB.) 79 AB in 20 games, that's full time opportunity. After a while, having gone hitless in five of his last 8 games, and with a .275 OBP and a .227 average, he lost his full-time job. Some sporadic bench play, back to Iowa. When he got recalled in August, he was again given a shot as the regular starter but this time a much shorter window, 4 straight starts. AFter going hitless in two of the last three, Lou bagged the idea it was sporadic defensive replacement usage with only a couple of starts the rest of the way.

 

Basically 10 start, 20 start, an 4 start windows in April, June, and August. Each in concentrated packages, and each following full-time work at Iowa. So it's not like his opportunities involved using him when he was cold off the bench, other than the few scattered AB's during the last 6 weeks.

 

The June window was really the best opportunity. If he'd have done well in April, that would have been great. But by June, they'd abandoned the Soriano-in-center experiment, it was Pie's to take and hold.

 

Are 10 and 20 start windows too short? To adequately judge a guy long-term, obviously not. But that's long enough where a guy who's hitting at Iowa could keep hitting and go from there. I understand that a 20-start window is short; pressured; and even the best of hitters go through 20-game periods where they struggle.

 

I expect it will be longer this spring. But I don't know how many outfielders are allowed to go as the regular starter with OBP in the .275-range.

 

I think Pie will make it a lot easier on everybody if he can keep his OBP on the right side of .300 early on. Then he won't need to worry about how quickly Lou will pull the plug.

 

Check out Pedroia's first 20 games. It wasn't very pretty.

 

Also, Pie was not a "supported" starter. I think he was pressing, trying to do more then he should have been when he played because he knew his leash was short. I hope Pie comes out on fire and wins over Lou. If Lou supported Pie like he does Theriot, I'd be happy.

 

I disagree completely with that in the June stint. They came out and said publicly "Pie is the starter. Period." They then went and came very close to trading the other possible starter in CF to the Marlins, and trade rumors were swirling around Jones almost all of the time Pie was the starter.

 

And Lou did the same thing to Theriot. Theriot came out and did well, and then struggled and was quickly replaced by Izturis. Then, when Izturis struggled, Theriot came in and did well again in July before collapsing at the end of the year.

 

which for Pie, Pie struggled and Lou replaced him with Jones. Jones struggled, so Lou replaced him with Pie. Pie struggled again, so Lou replaced him with Jones. Jones then did much better the rest of the year, so Pie never really got another shot. If Jones had struggled again after the All-Star break, Pie probably would have gotten yet another chance.

 

Lou had a quick hook on just about everybody last year. It wasn't the best situation for a prospect like Pie to be in, and I wish Lou would have given him a longer leash. It was pretty consistent for everyone though. Izturis, Theriot, Jones, Murton, Pie, Fontenot, Barrett, Bowen, and Miller all got benched/traded quickly when they went south. Pretty much the only exception was Theriot in September, and that was after he had two more periods of good play than Pie did in the majors last year.

[CubinNY]

I have no problem with the Cub handling of Pie thus far. He had a good opportunity to win the job last year but didn't.

1. Contrary to the complaint that he's not being given a chance or being written off prematurely, he got his 177 AB (quite a few for a rookie, actually), and doesn't seem to have lost any status in the organization.

 

Yea, that's a bunch of b.s.

 

A handful of sporadic ABs punctuated by weeks of sitting on the bench between them.

 

He got 177 AB's total.

 

shttp://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/gamelog?statsId=7704&year=2007

 

Those were split over mostly two windows. If you look at the game log, he got called up and started at least 10 of his first 12 games in April (4 or more AB), and only once in those first 12 games didn't play. With a .250 OBP he got benched, and returned to Iowa. He got recalled again in June, and started almost every one of his first 20 20 games, routinely getting 4 or 5 AB. (The record shows two games with 2 AB and two games with 3 AB.) 79 AB in 20 games, that's full time opportunity. After a while, having gone hitless in five of his last 8 games, and with a .275 OBP and a .227 average, he lost his full-time job. Some sporadic bench play, back to Iowa. When he got recalled in August, he was again given a shot as the regular starter but this time a much shorter window, 4 straight starts. AFter going hitless in two of the last three, Lou bagged the idea it was sporadic defensive replacement usage with only a couple of starts the rest of the way.

 

Basically 10 start, 20 start, an 4 start windows in April, June, and August. Each in concentrated packages, and each following full-time work at Iowa. So it's not like his opportunities involved using him when he was cold off the bench, other than the few scattered AB's during the last 6 weeks.

 

The June window was really the best opportunity. If he'd have done well in April, that would have been great. But by June, they'd abandoned the Soriano-in-center experiment, it was Pie's to take and hold.

 

Are 10 and 20 start windows too short? To adequately judge a guy long-term, obviously not. But that's long enough where a guy who's hitting at Iowa could keep hitting and go from there. I understand that a 20-start window is short; pressured; and even the best of hitters go through 20-game periods where they struggle.

 

I expect it will be longer this spring. But I don't know how many outfielders are allowed to go as the regular starter with OBP in the .275-range.

 

I think Pie will make it a lot easier on everybody if he can keep his OBP on the right side of .300 early on. Then he won't need to worry about how quickly Lou will pull the plug.

 

Check out Pedroia's first 20 games. It wasn't very pretty.

 

Also, Pie was not a "supported" starter. I think he was pressing, trying to do more then he should have been when he played because he knew his leash was short. I hope Pie comes out on fire and wins over Lou. If Lou supported Pie like he does Theriot, I'd be happy.

Or Jose Reyes. I think he walked once or twice in his first 100 PAs.