WSCR Rumor?

[USSoccer]

So there are no numbers that tell us once a pitcher gives up a certain amount of runs, how well or poorly he pitches?

 

Probably not, but why does that matter? Are you saying he can't keep a team "in the game" or pitch to his run support?

[nilodnayr]

So I was right then.

 

Right about what? As far as I can tell you haven't made an argument. All you've done is asked for #s that you know aren't mineable with the tools available to the public and all we've said is that those numbers don't prove anything.

[David]

Cuse has to be just trolling to mess with us.. He HAS to be. This line of reasoning is so far beyond absurd.

[David]

He wants us to prove his ridiculous argument for him. Sweet.

[CuseCubFan69]

What's even more staggering is that I'm pretty sure the vast majority of pitchers have worse numbers with men on base just because of the nature of the situation. Throwing from the stretch, good hitters coming after one another, etc.

 

You're wrong. It means he's a piss poor ninny who should be dealt immediately.

 

What kind of pansy has a higher ERA with guys on base?

 

I'll tell you what kind, a documented steroid abuser.

 

Funny how you revert to this type of a point when you can't prove me wrong.

 

'Cuse, it's going to be impossible to prove you wrong, because if he's getting rocked, his numbers will suck because he's getting rocked.

 

You've constructed a circular argument.

 

No I haven't USS. What I'm asking is what numbers prove when he is struggling how he reacts to that. Prior has had success his whole life and is used to things going his way pitching wise. My point is when he doesn't have that success, how he reacted or performed when he was failing. I've worked with many pitchers in my life and I've seen and actually been there when some of them that when things are going well, they're fine. But, when they get hit hard their confidence changes. It's my opinion that Prior was like this. Now, I've had kids that were just as good but wouldn't give an inch at any time. Again, it's my opinion.

[Sammy Sofa]

What's even more staggering is that I'm pretty sure the vast majority of pitchers have worse numbers with men on base just because of the nature of the situation. Throwing from the stretch, good hitters coming after one another, etc.

 

You're wrong. It means he's a piss poor ninny who should be dealt immediately.

 

What kind of pansy has a higher ERA with guys on base?

 

I'll tell you what kind, a documented steroid abuser.

 

Funny how you revert to this type of a point when you can't prove me wrong.

 

'Cuse, it's going to be impossible to prove you wrong, because if he's getting rocked, his numbers will suck because he's getting rocked.

 

You've constructed a circular argument.

 

No I haven't USS. What I'm asking is what numbers prove when he is struggling how he reacts to that. Prior has had success his whole life and is used to things going his way pitching wise. My point is when he doesn't have that success, how he reacted or performed when he was failing. I've worked with many pitchers in my life and I've seen and actually been there when some of them that when things are going well, they're fine. But, when they get hit hard their confidence changes. It's my opinion that Prior was like this. Now, I've had kids that were just as good but wouldn't give an inch at any time. Again, it's my opinion.

 

I'd argue that the majority of pitchers who give up 4 runs or more in a game likely aren't in it long enough to hold it down.

[nilodnayr]

What's even more staggering is that I'm pretty sure the vast majority of pitchers have worse numbers with men on base just because of the nature of the situation. Throwing from the stretch, good hitters coming after one another, etc.

 

You're wrong. It means he's a piss poor ninny who should be dealt immediately.

 

What kind of pansy has a higher ERA with guys on base?

 

I'll tell you what kind, a documented steroid abuser.

 

Funny how you revert to this type of a point when you can't prove me wrong.

 

'Cuse, it's going to be impossible to prove you wrong, because if he's getting rocked, his numbers will suck because he's getting rocked.

 

You've constructed a circular argument.

 

No I haven't USS. What I'm asking is what numbers prove when he is struggling how he reacts to that. Prior has had success his whole life and is used to things going his way pitching wise. My point is when he doesn't have that success, how he reacted or performed when he was failing. I've worked with many pitchers in my life and I've seen and actually been there when some of them that when things are going well, they're fine. But, when they get hit hard their confidence changes. It's my opinion that Prior was like this. Now, I've had kids that were just as good but wouldn't give an inch at any time. Again, it's my opinion.

 

Easy, go through his gamelogs.

[CuseCubFan69]

So there are no numbers that tell us once a pitcher gives up a certain amount of runs, how well or poorly he pitches?

 

Probably not, but why does that matter? Are you saying he can't keep a team "in the game" or pitch to his run support?

 

No. What I'm saying is the focus after failing.

[USSoccer]

What's even more staggering is that I'm pretty sure the vast majority of pitchers have worse numbers with men on base just because of the nature of the situation. Throwing from the stretch, good hitters coming after one another, etc.

 

You're wrong. It means he's a piss poor ninny who should be dealt immediately.

 

What kind of pansy has a higher ERA with guys on base?

 

I'll tell you what kind, a documented steroid abuser.

 

Funny how you revert to this type of a point when you can't prove me wrong.

 

'Cuse, it's going to be impossible to prove you wrong, because if he's getting rocked, his numbers will suck because he's getting rocked.

 

You've constructed a circular argument.

 

No I haven't USS. What I'm asking is what numbers prove when he is struggling how he reacts to that. Prior has had success his whole life and is used to things going his way pitching wise. My point is when he doesn't have that success, how he reacted or performed when he was failing. I've worked with many pitchers in my life and I've seen and actually been there when some of them that when things are going well, they're fine. But, when they get hit hard their confidence changes. It's my opinion that Prior was like this. Now, I've had kids that were just as good but wouldn't give an inch at any time. Again, it's my opinion.

 

You've created a hypothesis which has it's basis in a person's psychological reaction to failure. However, there isn't going to be a metric to show you how he "handles failure". That's a perception. What numbers will show you is that if a guy is having a bad game, he's going to have crappy numbers. Which doesn't prove that he can't "handle failure". It only proves that he experiences failure.

 

The closest thing you could get to what you're trying to argue is his record after a disaster start. I'm sure someone here would have the time to dig that up, but I'd wager it's probably pretty good, and even then, it wouldn't prove squat, because wins are a lousy metric as well. You could look at his peripherals after a disaster start, and that might give you insight, but probably not, because the hangover from sucking isn't going to last 4 or 5 days.

 

You're asking for proof of something that cannot be quantified effectively. It's like arguing about the existence of unicorns.

[Rob]

In 2003, Prior ranked #2 in QS% among pitchers with a minimum of 100 IP... .01 points behind Kevin Brown.

 

Either he had his best stuff every day, or he managed to deal with it pretty damn well when he didn't, and he started getting hit.

[David]

So there are no numbers that tell us once a pitcher gives up a certain amount of runs, how well or poorly he pitches?

 

Probably not, but why does that matter? Are you saying he can't keep a team "in the game" or pitch to his run support?

 

No. What I'm saying is the focus after failing.

 

You can make all these claims all you want, but you provide no support for them other than saying that it's your opinion and asking us to look up the numbers for you (numbers that are impossible to find, no less). On top of that, you criticize people for using numbers to support their arguments when you don't even provide support for your own.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

You've created a hypothesis which has it's basis in a person's psychological reaction to failure. However, there isn't going to be a metric to show you how he "handles failure". That's a perception. What numbers will show you is that if a guy is having a bad game, he's going to have crappy numbers. Which doesn't prove that he can't "handle failure". It only proves that he experiences failure.

 

Outstandingly worded.

[CuseCubFan69]

What's even more staggering is that I'm pretty sure the vast majority of pitchers have worse numbers with men on base just because of the nature of the situation. Throwing from the stretch, good hitters coming after one another, etc.

 

You're wrong. It means he's a piss poor ninny who should be dealt immediately.

 

What kind of pansy has a higher ERA with guys on base?

 

I'll tell you what kind, a documented steroid abuser.

 

Funny how you revert to this type of a point when you can't prove me wrong.

 

'Cuse, it's going to be impossible to prove you wrong, because if he's getting rocked, his numbers will suck because he's getting rocked.

 

You've constructed a circular argument.

 

No I haven't USS. What I'm asking is what numbers prove when he is struggling how he reacts to that. Prior has had success his whole life and is used to things going his way pitching wise. My point is when he doesn't have that success, how he reacted or performed when he was failing. I've worked with many pitchers in my life and I've seen and actually been there when some of them that when things are going well, they're fine. But, when they get hit hard their confidence changes. It's my opinion that Prior was like this. Now, I've had kids that were just as good but wouldn't give an inch at any time. Again, it's my opinion.

 

You've created a hypothesis which has it's basis in a person's psychological reaction to failure. However, there isn't going to be a metric to show you how he "handles failure". That's a perception. What numbers will show you is that if a guy is having a bad game, he's going to have crappy numbers. Which doesn't prove that he can't "handle failure". It only proves that he experiences failure.

 

The closest thing you could get to what you're trying to argue is his record after a disaster start. I'm sure someone here would have the time to dig that up, but I'd wager it's probably pretty good, and even then, it wouldn't prove squat, because wins are a lousy metric as well. You could look at his peripherals after a disaster start, and that might give you insight, but probably not, because the hangover from sucking isn't going to last 4 or 5 days.

 

You're asking for proof of something that cannot be quantified effectively. It's like arguing about the existence of unicorns.

 

Wins have nothing to do with what I'm asking and I never mentioned them. Can I ask you a question. Does the game of baseball involve a mental aspect?

[jersey cubs fan]

I've worked with many pitchers in my life and I've seen and actually been there when some of them that when things are going well, they're fine. But, when they get hit hard their confidence changes.

 

Are you a high school baseball coach?

[CuseCubFan69]

I've worked with many pitchers in my life and I've seen and actually been there when some of them that when things are going well, they're fine. But, when they get hit hard their confidence changes.

 

Are you a high school baseball coach?

 

Yes.

[HoopsCubs]

Aren't we supposed to be discussing a rumor here that suggests we might be in the market for another player/pitcher?

[C.C.]

Aren't we supposed to be discussing a rumor here that suggests we might be in the market for another player/pitcher?

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Of course there's a mental aspect to baseball. This road has been traveled before. You can't try to extract the "other side" or whatever from statistics. The mental aspect is reflected in statistics because they are simply what happened. If they didn't then the "intangible" isn't worth paying attention to.

[David]

I would just love ONE example of Prior's feeble-mindedness. Just one. I just want to see you provide an iota of support for one of the claims you make.

[RynoRules]

Aren't we supposed to be discussing a rumor here that suggests we might be in the market for another player/pitcher?

[C.C.]

I would just love ONE example of Prior's feeble-mindedness. Just one. I just want to see you provide an iota of support for one of the claims you make.

 

He left the Cubs and may play for the Reds?

[USSoccer]

 

You've created a hypothesis which has it's basis in a person's psychological reaction to failure. However, there isn't going to be a metric to show you how he "handles failure". That's a perception. What numbers will show you is that if a guy is having a bad game, he's going to have crappy numbers. Which doesn't prove that he can't "handle failure". It only proves that he experiences failure.

 

The closest thing you could get to what you're trying to argue is his record after a disaster start. I'm sure someone here would have the time to dig that up, but I'd wager it's probably pretty good, and even then, it wouldn't prove squat, because wins are a lousy metric as well. You could look at his peripherals after a disaster start, and that might give you insight, but probably not, because the hangover from sucking isn't going to last 4 or 5 days.

 

You're asking for proof of something that cannot be quantified effectively. It's like arguing about the existence of unicorns.

 

Wins have nothing to do with what I'm asking and I never mentioned them. Can I ask you a question. Does the game of baseball involve a mental aspect?

 

Hold on, 'Cuse. Stay focused on the issue. Wins were brought up in a very narrow context. You want proof that he can't handle failure? The closest thing you have is looking at his game logs and seeing what his numbers look like after a disaster start. That's what I'm saying. And again, he didn't have a ton of disaster starts in his career. You have very little with which to work with, but what is there suggests that he can handle failure just fine, but again, do you really think that the hangover from a disaster start lasts 4 days?

 

You're trying to prove something that cannot be proven, and use that conclusion to justify a criticism you have. That's not going to work.

[jersey cubs fan]

I've worked with many pitchers in my life and I've seen and actually been there when some of them that when things are going well, they're fine. But, when they get hit hard their confidence changes.

 

Are you a high school baseball coach?

 

Yes.

 

And you believe that your background as a longtime high school baseball coach qualifies you as somebody who can accurately determine the level of mental focus of an elite level major league pitcher from moment to moment, given game conditions?

[RynoRules]

I've worked with many pitchers in my life and I've seen and actually been there when some of them that when things are going well, they're fine. But, when they get hit hard their confidence changes.

 

Are you a high school baseball coach?

 

Yes.

 

And you believe that your background as a longtime high school baseball coach qualifies you as somebody who can accurately determine the level of mental focus of an elite level major league pitcher from moment to moment, given game conditions?

 

To me, that is part of the fun of this game - we haven't developed metrics that can quantify each and every factor, so you can argue over some of the issues.

[jersey cubs fan]

I've worked with many pitchers in my life and I've seen and actually been there when some of them that when things are going well, they're fine. But, when they get hit hard their confidence changes.

 

Are you a high school baseball coach?

 

Yes.

 

And you believe that your background as a longtime high school baseball coach qualifies you as somebody who can accurately determine the level of mental focus of an elite level major league pitcher from moment to moment, given game conditions?

 

To me, that is part of the fun of this game - we haven't developed metrics that can quantify each and every factor, so you can argue over some of the issues.

 

I don't see where the fun is in arguing over whether a guy is a mental midget.