MacPhail: Deal is dead (p. 297), stop posting, go outside

[CubColtPacer]

When he says is is very inaccurate, I hope it's because the player's going the Orioles way aren't named Cedeno or Gallagher.

 

I think Gallagher goes in any deal..he's the centerpiece of it all.

 

Orioles fans think that at most a name might be wrong. Other than that, they believe that MacPhail is just bluffing saying that the deal isn't official, which of course it's not. But they believe it is complete. The administrator of the site has checked with 2 different of his own sources and confirmed the deal (both sources said 100%) and he apparently doesn't post anything unless he's completely sure he won't be wrong, unlike the other insiders.

[Soul]

When he says is is very inaccurate, I hope it's because the player's going the Orioles way aren't named Cedeno or Gallagher.

 

I think Gallagher goes in any deal..he's the centerpiece of it all.

 

Orioles fans think that at most a name might be wrong. Other than that, they believe that MacPhail is just bluffing saying that the deal isn't official, which of course it's not. But they believe it is complete. The administrator of the site has checked with 2 different of his own sources and confirmed the deal (both sources said 100%) and he apparently doesn't post anything unless he's completely sure he won't be wrong, unlike the other insiders.

 

Alright, so his neck is on the line. I really don't care either way, I hope this thing just ends one way or the other now.

[David]

If this deal is true, then if it's a bad deal or not depends on what Hendry does next. He has to bring in another pitcher now of some kind, even if that pitcher is just one of those that we've talked about as competition for the 5th starter spot. It will also be interesting to see who they acquire to fill the backup IF spot. The Cubs paid fair value for this deal, the only problem is the depth at the positions they traded. So this deal cannot be properly evaluated in terms of how it helps the team until the depth question has been answered with other moves.

 

I do think DeRosa has a decent chance to see decently significant time at SS by the end of the year (40 games started there or so), although a lot will depend on how much Lou has faith in whatever backup SS they bring in. I think DeRosa will only be an option if Lou is truly desperate, and I think Cedeno would have been the same way. As for the 5th starter spot, who knows if they were going to let Marshall pitch there anyway. That's another part that's hard to evaluate because it's hard to tell 1) if the Cubs were going to let these guys contribute anyway, if they weren't this deal becomes better, and 2) if the Cubs like one of the remaining young guys (Hart or Mateo) to make the leap and become a 5th starter option.

 

Hendry supposedly had a grand plan at the beginning of the offseason. It involved

1) getting Fukudome

2) getting a left-handed middle infielder

3) getting another starter

4) possibly trading for Figgins if Pie is used in deal for starter

 

So far he's over halfway finished. Hopefully he can finish the job, because the plan looks a lot better when it's complete.

 

This is exactly how I feel about it. Wait it out and see. If we do open up the season with a rotation of Z, Lilly, Hill, Marquis, Dempster, then I'm disappointed. There's still plenty of time to change that, though.

[BigbadB]

Since NSBB has been duped by Orioles Hangout for the umpteenth time, let's talk about something else, somewhat related.

 

Assuming the rumors are true that the Cubs would like to get Roberts, Figgins, AJ Burnett and Alex Cintron to finish up the offseason, does anyone else see some serious cash crunch issues in the coming years? I like that they are spending money, don't get me wrong. But, when you trade off all your young, cheap talent (assume that Murton, Cedeno, Gallagher, Marshall, Pie, Veal are all involved in trades at the very least for Roberts, Figgins and Burnett), there comes a point where you eclipse your budget and have no money to make improvements. Having highly paid players at every position can do that, and the only cheap talent on the Cubs roster appears to be Soto, Rich Hill and Theriot, bullpen and bench.

 

I like the idea of Roberts, Figgins and Burnett. Don't get me wrong. I also like "going for it" if you feel like it's a win now situation. But, I have to admit a bit of concern about the future. I suppose a lot of those players have moveable contracts, so maybe it shouldn't be a concern. But what I liked about guys like Pie is that they have a chance to be really good for several years for a very slight hit to the budget.

[Tyrant]

 

I like the idea of Roberts, Figgins and Burnett.

 

I do too, but I have no idea how they'd acquire all three. Say they do trade the Seans and Cedeno for Roberts. What is left of value to offer for Figgins and Burnett? Pie, Colvin ... what else?

[JeffH]

when you trade off all your young, cheap talent

 

Good organizations generate new young, cheap talent every year.

 

I recognize that this is an extremely strange concept to us Cubs fans.

[BigbadB]

 

I like the idea of Roberts, Figgins and Burnett.

 

I do too, but I have no idea how they'd acquire all three. Say they do trade the Seans and Cedeno for Roberts. What is left of value to offer for Figgins and Burnett? Pie, Colvin ... what else?

 

Murton would have value in Toronto, but not necessarily in Anaheim. Veal could be of interest to either team. Patterson, Fuld, Marmol and even some lesser names could be intriguing.

 

Burnett would be more of a salary dump, so there is potential for them to take back a bit of salary in exchange (Dempster or Marquis)

[CubColtPacer]

 

I like the idea of Roberts, Figgins and Burnett.

 

I do too, but I have no idea how they'd acquire all three. Say they do trade the Seans and Cedeno for Roberts. What is left of value to offer for Figgins and Burnett? Pie, Colvin ... what else?

 

There's been rumors that DeRosa and Dempster combined could be a major part of the package for Burnett. The Blue Jays aren't exactly enamored with him at the moment.

 

Burnett btw has an opt-out clause after this year, so that will also drive down his value.

 

If they can get Burnett without using Pie (and if they're trading with the Blue Jays, Pie is almost useless to them) then they don't have to get Figgins. Figgins probably isn't going anywhere anyway at this point because the Angels haven't found another third baseman.

[BigbadB]

when you trade off all your young, cheap talent

 

Good organizations generate new young, cheap talent every year.

 

I recognize that this is an extremely strange concept to us Cubs fans.

 

Point duly noted. :D

[David]

 

I like the idea of Roberts, Figgins and Burnett.

 

I do too, but I have no idea how they'd acquire all three. Say they do trade the Seans and Cedeno for Roberts. What is left of value to offer for Figgins and Burnett? Pie, Colvin ... what else?

 

Guys like Murton and DeRosa are tradeable MLB assets. Pie might be. I'm not really sure they'll go after Figgins if they don't have to give up Pie, but who knows.

 

My guess would be that if Hendry can get another SP without giving up Pie, he'll consider his work done, although I wouldn't totally mind Figgins in CF.

[Butterscup1679666578]

This was posted around 10 am ET. I dont know if it's been posted here yet:

 

http://weblogs.baltimoresun.com/sports/roch/blog/2008/01/latest_brian_roberts_rumor.html

 

Haha. Read some of the comments posted:

 

"Thanks for informing us it is inaccurate. The thought of giving up 103 runs and a .377 OBP with 50 SB's and our only All Star from last year and getting back a guy with a .203 average, a B prospect and a guy who never showed a winning record when pitching over 50 innings in minor league ball is too tough to take."

 

"When the Cubs come asking for Roberts, it's (Rich) Hill and (Felix) Pie or say bye-bye."

[inari]

This was posted around 10 am ET. I dont know if it's been posted here yet:

 

http://weblogs.baltimoresun.com/sports/roch/blog/2008/01/latest_brian_roberts_rumor.html

 

Haha. Read some of the comments posted:

 

"Thanks for informing us it is inaccurate. The thought of giving up 103 runs and a .377 OBP with 50 SB's and our only All Star from last year and getting back a guy with a .203 average, a B prospect and a guy who never showed a winning record when pitching over 50 innings in minor league ball is too tough to take."

 

"When the Cubs come asking for Roberts, it's (Rich) Hill and (Felix) Pie or say bye-bye."

 

LOL

[98navigator]

Here's an update from the Baltimore Sun:

 

A team spokesman said he just contacted president Andy MacPhail, who insisted that the rumor is "very inaccurate." The Sun's Dan Connolly just spoke to MacPhail, who said nothing has changed since last night.

 

http://weblogs.baltimoresun.com/sports/roch/blog/2008/01/latest_brian_roberts_rumor.html

 

Maybe, it's inaccurate because one of the three names mentioned is incorrect...

[David]

FWIW, here's Tony's (site admin) response to the newspaper report that no deal is done.

 

http://forum.orioleshangout.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1158788&postcount=21

 

Guys, today is Goose Gossage's day so MLB probably doesn't want to announce any trades. It is certainly MacPhail's and the front office's right to claim nothing is final because they are right, until MLB announces the trade it's not final.

 

I feel pretty good about the information I had because it cames from two sources in two different circles of baseball. Now, have I talked with Andy MacPhail himself, no, so there is always a chance something is different, but I felt good enough to post it on the front page after having things confirmed to me privately. Again, I was told 100 percent.

 

Now, I don't expect the front office to confirm it, and I expect a lot of people will slam me for being inaccurate, but let's just say I'm not just basing this off a rumor from the board.

 

Again, take it for whatever it's worth to you. I'm just passing it on for those that don't feel like going to the other site.

[BigbadB]

If they can get Burnett without using Pie (and if they're trading with the Blue Jays, Pie is almost useless to them) then they don't have to get Figgins. Figgins probably isn't going anywhere anyway at this point because the Angels haven't found another third baseman.

 

I'm not really sure how much Figgins really factored into offseason plans, but I've heard his name tossed around a few times. But, I've also heard that Anaheim would want Pie. I find that a bit odd considering Anaheim already has a roster crunch in the outfield as it is without including Pie to the confusion.

 

Vlady, Garret Anderson, GMJ, Torii Hunter, Juan Rivera, Reggie Willits.

 

Anaheim could use Pie with other prospects to get Santana, Bedard or Blanton, I suppose.

[Tracer Bullet]

Can we please stop quoting rumors from their site as truth? They've slipped past MLB Trade Rumors in terms of credibility, imo.

 

What's wrong with quoting rumors from that site? The rumor quoted clearly states that the Orioles Hangout is reporting its done. The poster didn't say it was done and just put "link" so you'd have to click it to know it was from that site.

 

I, for one, like having updates from that site posted. Even if the information isn't 100% accurate (though it has been in the past, at times), I like seeing rumors that have at least a shred of credibility (which these do, imo).

[CUBBIEblue16]

You can make this trade look really bad for the Cubs.

 

 

Two of the Cubs biggest problems were offense at SS and starting pitching depth, particularly at the backend. So we solved this by trading our most MLB ready SS prospect and two starting pitchers for an admitted steroid user at a position that we were very set at.

 

Cedeno's been to the majors more than once, and has been less than impressive each time. I'm not so concerned with giving him up.

 

2005 Ronny Cedeno says hello. :lol:

 

I wouldn't have too much of a problem with him being included in this trade if the Cubs weren't also dealing away one solid starting pitcher and a pitching prospect who could have possibly been better than Marquis and Dempster this season.

 

But theyre not, this board needs to realize this. Marshall and Gallagher in the rotation together at the same time, is in fact worse than Dempster and Marquis. Good lord at some of you people.

[Tracer Bullet]

You can make this trade look really bad for the Cubs.

 

 

Two of the Cubs biggest problems were offense at SS and starting pitching depth, particularly at the backend. So we solved this by trading our most MLB ready SS prospect and two starting pitchers for an admitted steroid user at a position that we were very set at.

 

Cedeno's been to the majors more than once, and has been less than impressive each time. I'm not so concerned with giving him up.

 

2005 Ronny Cedeno says hello. :lol:

 

I wouldn't have too much of a problem with him being included in this trade if the Cubs weren't also dealing away one solid starting pitcher and a pitching prospect who could have possibly been better than Marquis and Dempster this season.

 

But theyre not, this board needs to realize this. Marshall and Gallagher in the rotation together at the same time, is in fact worse than Dempster and Marquis. Good lord at some of you people.

 

What does that even mean?

[David]

You can make this trade look really bad for the Cubs.

 

 

Two of the Cubs biggest problems were offense at SS and starting pitching depth, particularly at the backend. So we solved this by trading our most MLB ready SS prospect and two starting pitchers for an admitted steroid user at a position that we were very set at.

 

Cedeno's been to the majors more than once, and has been less than impressive each time. I'm not so concerned with giving him up.

 

2005 Ronny Cedeno says hello. :lol:

 

I wouldn't have too much of a problem with him being included in this trade if the Cubs weren't also dealing away one solid starting pitcher and a pitching prospect who could have possibly been better than Marquis and Dempster this season.

 

But theyre not, this board needs to realize this. Marshall and Gallagher in the rotation together at the same time, is in fact worse than Dempster and Marquis. Good lord at some of you people.

 

I'd pretty easily say that Marshall is better than Dempster right now, and that Gallagher would stand a very good chance of being so too.

 

As for Jason, here's hoping first half Marquis shows up again this year, at least.

[BigbadB]

But theyre not, this board needs to realize this. Marshall and Gallagher in the rotation together at the same time, is in fact worse than Dempster and Marquis. Good lord at some of you people.

 

Care to elaborate?

[Soul]

If this deal is true, then if it's a bad deal or not depends on what Hendry does next. He has to bring in another pitcher now of some kind, even if that pitcher is just one of those that we've talked about as competition for the 5th starter spot. It will also be interesting to see who they acquire to fill the backup IF spot. The Cubs paid fair value for this deal, the only problem is the depth at the positions they traded. So this deal cannot be properly evaluated in terms of how it helps the team until the depth question has been answered with other moves.

 

I do think DeRosa has a decent chance to see decently significant time at SS by the end of the year (40 games started there or so), although a lot will depend on how much Lou has faith in whatever backup SS they bring in. I think DeRosa will only be an option if Lou is truly desperate, and I think Cedeno would have been the same way. As for the 5th starter spot, who knows if they were going to let Marshall pitch there anyway. That's another part that's hard to evaluate because it's hard to tell 1) if the Cubs were going to let these guys contribute anyway, if they weren't this deal becomes better, and 2) if the Cubs like one of the remaining young guys (Hart or Mateo) to make the leap and become a 5th starter option.

 

Hendry supposedly had a grand plan at the beginning of the offseason. It involved

1) getting Fukudome

2) getting a left-handed middle infielder

3) getting another starter

4) possibly trading for Figgins if Pie is used in deal for starter

 

So far he's over halfway finished. Hopefully he can finish the job, because the plan looks a lot better when it's complete.

 

This is exactly how I feel about it. Wait it out and see. If we do open up the season with a rotation of Z, Lilly, Hill, Marquis, Dempster, then I'm disappointed. There's still plenty of time to change that, though.

 

Hey, we've been waiting it out for 100 years, bud 8-)

[Soul]

This was posted around 10 am ET. I dont know if it's been posted here yet:

 

http://weblogs.baltimoresun.com/sports/roch/blog/2008/01/latest_brian_roberts_rumor.html

 

Haha. Read some of the comments posted:

 

"Thanks for informing us it is inaccurate. The thought of giving up 103 runs and a .377 OBP with 50 SB's and our only All Star from last year and getting back a guy with a .203 average, a B prospect and a guy who never showed a winning record when pitching over 50 innings in minor league ball is too tough to take."

 

"When the Cubs come asking for Roberts, it's (Rich) Hill and (Felix) Pie or say bye-bye."

 

=D>

 

Too funny. Always good to hear the other side of the story. They aren't getting Hill and Pie though. I don't think Hendry is *that* stupid.

[CubColtPacer]

BTW, one of the insiders who rarely posts just chimed in, and he leads support to what navigator said on the previous page along with why MacPhail might have said that it was "very inaccurate"

 

I just got an email that the names coming in might not be what has been reported.

 

Once again, put a lot of credence in this or none at all. It's certainly subject to change, as this whole strange process has a few times.

[UMFan83]

BTW, one of the insiders who rarely posts just chimed in, and he leads support to what navigator said on the previous page along with why MacPhail might have said that it was "very inaccurate"

 

I just got an email that the names coming in might not be what has been reported.

 

Once again, put a lot of credence in this or none at all. It's certainly subject to change, as this whole strange process has a few times.

 

Crap, Hendry bid against himself again. Zambrano and Pie going over to the O's

 

Edit: Oh and some credit for Nav please. He posted this a half hour ago and no one really said anything. Do you have a source Nav or was that just an educated guess?

[Soul]

Alright, now I'm starting to get scared.

 

Hendry, you better not be screwing us royally again.