Ty Cobb, etc. (split from Arod thread)

[imb]

I love how when you say "you read" something, it's actually just Wikipedia that you read, not like you actually read a book about the topic or had a book or two, or three, or four in front of you like I have. The "I don't care if he has no feet" line comes from Al Stump's biography, which isn't considered a credible biography.

 

But hey, you know more than me because you read a Wikipedia entry, it's not like I wrote a freaking 60 page thesis paper on the man. :roll:

 

So, no defense of your position other than a fanboy "I wrote big paper over him"?

 

Hmmmm, a person who spent countless hours reading microfilm from 5 different newspapers about all the major incidents of his career and has read six or seven books about the guy vs. you, someone who is uninformed about the topic and is relying on Wikipedia.

 

Even the freaking NY Times sympathized with Cobb!

 

Even the freaking NY TIMES?

 

I'm on your side now. So what if Cobb was beating the handicapped and stabbing the innocent, Babe Ruth punched a guy! PUNCHED HIM.

 

Just kidding, I think you might have mental problems.

 

How informed do you have to be to know that Cobb was a terrible person. Obviously, in this case, not very, since I'm right and you're wrong. And you've spent your entire life garbling up every bit of information you can on the esteemed Mr. Cobb. It's a bit like a case of stockholm syndrome.

[OleMissCub]

I think you might have mental problems.

 

This conversation is over.

[imb]

I think you might have mental problems.

 

This conversation is over.

 

Run! RUN!

[Productive Outs]

barry bonds is a better hitter than ty cobb was

[OleMissCub]

http://www.gifflix.com/data/media/81/online_fighter.jpg

[UK1679666180]

See what you caused Bruno.

 

(btw, where did Alex Meyer commit to? That's right-UK)

 

Cobb was a racist with an awful temper, loved on the field as a teammate (team stood by him after being suspended) and hated off the field.

[Roast]

 

Just kidding, I think you might have mental problems.

 

Oh, come on.

[Derwood]

awwww shucks

[OleMissCub]

And you've spent your entire life garbling up every bit of information you can on the esteemed Mr. Cobb.

 

If by my entire life you mean a month during my senior year of undergrad, then you are right.

[Roast]

 

Cobb was a racist with an awful temper, loved on the field as a teammate (team stood by him after being suspended) and hated off the field.

 

While it's true that they stood by him after being suspended, it's a HUGE stretch to say that he was "loved" on the field as a teammate.

[Guest]

I think you might have mental problems.

 

You know better than that.

[imb]

Ehh, it was a throw away line, I didn't mean to call him [expletive]. I can see how it would come across that way, though.

 

Sorry OMC, you can come back and tell us all how punching an ump is as bad as stabbing and beating the innocent again.

[OleMissCub]

 

Sorry OMC, you can come back and tell us all how punching an ump is as bad as stabbing and beating the innocent again.

 

Such true contrition you are showing, it's remarkable.

[UK1679666180]

 

Cobb was a racist with an awful temper, loved on the field as a teammate (team stood by him after being suspended) and hated off the field.

 

While it's true that they stood by him after being suspended, it's a HUGE stretch to say that he was "loved" on the field as a teammate.

 

It's the only time they could tolerate him, especially early on.

[imb]

 

Sorry OMC, you can come back and tell us all how punching an ump is as bad as stabbing and beating the innocent again.

 

Such true contrition you are showing, it's remarkable.

 

Well, I'm really only sorry for breaking the board rules. I couldn't care less how sad it made you.

 

Seriously though, let's get back to how punching an ump is as bad as stabbing and beating the innocent again. I'm intrigued.

[OleMissCub]

 

Sorry OMC, you can come back and tell us all how punching an ump is as bad as stabbing and beating the innocent again.

 

Such true contrition you are showing, it's remarkable.

 

Seriously though, let's get back to how punching an ump is as bad as stabbing and beating the innocent again. I'm intrigued.

 

Not going to give you the pleasure. I paid to get premium so I can block people like you. Tim couldn't get it back up soon enough.

[imb]

 

Sorry OMC, you can come back and tell us all how punching an ump is as bad as stabbing and beating the innocent again.

 

Such true contrition you are showing, it's remarkable.

 

Seriously though, let's get back to how punching an ump is as bad as stabbing and beating the innocent again. I'm intrigued.

 

Not going to give you the pleasure. I paid to get premium so I can block people like you. Tim couldn't get it back up soon enough.

 

Really that was a trick proposition, because no rational human being could defend that position.

 

You've given it a valiant effort though.

[XZero771679666304]

barry bonds is a better hitter than ty cobb was

 

Yes, yes he is.

 

Seriously, I don't even know why this argument even took place. Cobb, Ruth and others like them were indeed schmucks who should be left moldering in historical antiquity. To use a Georgia analogy, Cobb was the William Tecumseh Sherman of ballplayers.

 

They are also guys who collected their numbers in days when the game was in it's relative infancy, the talent pool was tiny (no blacks, latinos, hispanics or asians) and the level of play was without a doubt much lower. OMC may argue with that, but it seems pretty clear to me.

 

Barry Bonds' numbers are no less valid than Cobb's or Ruth's. Less valid than Aaron and Mays, but that's not who we're talking about.

 

Personally, I am sick of the reverence altogether. Ruth was a fat hedonistic slob and Cobb was a vile, racist hick. They, like many of their contemporaries, would have nowhere near the success in today's game they had in their day.

 

Guys like Ty Cobb are the '72 Dolphins of MLB, revered, but totally obsolete. Oh, except morally reprehensible.

[Roast]

 

Cobb was a racist with an awful temper, loved on the field as a teammate (team stood by him after being suspended) and hated off the field.

 

While it's true that they stood by him after being suspended, it's a HUGE stretch to say that he was "loved" on the field as a teammate.

 

It's the only time they could tolerate him, especially early on.

Yep. I can only remember three instances (off the top of my head, I'm sure there are a couple more) where his teammates backed him up. One was over the suspension thing, the other was his effort to rectify unjust contracts (which obviously helped them as well), and then the fight in the stands that OMC was referring to, according to his teammates (VERY rough quote, doing this from memory) "No man could have stood up to what that fan was dishing out" or something. Essentially they said that they would have punched the guy, too if I remember correctly.

[Derwood]

the '72 Dolphins a great analogy. That team gets revered for going undefeated but they wouldn't go 8-8 in today's game. Likewise, neither Cobb nor Ruth would be anything great in today's game.

[Roast]

the '72 Dolphins a great analogy. That team gets revered for going undefeated but they wouldn't go 8-8 in today's game. Likewise, neither Cobb nor Ruth would be anything great in today's game.

 

I dont buy that. Cobb and Ruth played in terrible conditions and had basically no off-season training/schedule or whatever. With todays far superior playing conditions, medical treatment, and physical conditioning that are available to players...I can't say that they'd be as good as they were back then but you never know. They damn well could be.

 

It's just pretty impossible to draw a fair comparison between these two eras.

[OleMissCub]

the '72 Dolphins a great analogy. That team gets revered for going undefeated but they wouldn't go 8-8 in today's game. Likewise, neither Cobb nor Ruth would be anything great in today's game.

 

I think it's impossible to compare those eras. There are hardships and advantages to both eras.

[Derwood]

the '72 Dolphins a great analogy. That team gets revered for going undefeated but they wouldn't go 8-8 in today's game. Likewise, neither Cobb nor Ruth would be anything great in today's game.

 

I think it's impossible to compare those eras. There are hardships and advantages to both eras.

 

there are actually metrics to compare eras, i just don't have them available to me

[haltz]

There's two different arguments, I think. One where you teleport Ted Williams from 1942 to 2007 or whatever and have him play a season. Then there's the question of how good would Ted Williams be if he was born in 1984 and pursued baseball.

[Roast]

the '72 Dolphins a great analogy. That team gets revered for going undefeated but they wouldn't go 8-8 in today's game. Likewise, neither Cobb nor Ruth would be anything great in today's game.

 

I think it's impossible to compare those eras. There are hardships and advantages to both eras.

 

there are actually metrics to compare eras, i just don't have them available to me

 

 

There probably are. But things like how a player would react to improved medical treatment, better playing conditions, offseason training, etc are just so intangible that I don't think it can be measured by any metric. Cobb was a physical freak, I don't think a metric could fairly say how he would react to such things as I listed above.