Piniella Dumb Decisions Thread

[CUBZ99]

I don't know what is worse, pitching Trachsel yesterday or saying your not disappointed in your 5th starter going 1-3 with an 8.31 ERA.

 

 

But Piniella said he wasn't disappointed in Trachsel, who has gone 1-3 with an 8.31 ERA for the Cubs.

 

"The guy is our fifth starter, and he hasn't pitched in a while," Piniella said. "Why should I be disappointed?"

 

To top it off, Trachsel actually thinks he had good stuff yesterday.

 

"My stuff was pretty good," he said. "I was strong early. A couple of sacrifice flies and a solo home run."

 

Cubs might have lost by 10 if he had his bad stuff.

 

 

 

http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/cubs/cs-070927cubsbrite,1,3942748.story?coll=cs-home-headlines

[hardcorecubfan]

Trachsel has had a storied career with the Cubs. He was the guy who pitched the record-breaking ball to Big Mac. He was the guy who lost 18 games in a season.

 

He was also the guy on the mound when we beat the Gnats in that one-game playoff in '98. Pitched well that day, actually.

 

But adding him to this team, at this point in his career, was beyond stupid. Pitching him yesterday was unforgivably ridiculous.

 

Shame on you Lou. Quit channeling Dusty and start acting like who you really are, instead of reverting to a "grit & grind vets" freak.

 

Lou or Jim? or both I am hoping Lou didn't run out and say "Hey, Jim get Steve Tracshel"

[NewUserName]

I don't know what is worse, pitching Trachsel yesterday or saying your not disappointed in your 5th starter going 1-3 with an 8.31 ERA.

 

 

But Piniella said he wasn't disappointed in Trachsel, who has gone 1-3 with an 8.31 ERA for the Cubs.

 

"The guy is our fifth starter, and he hasn't pitched in a while," Piniella said. "Why should I be disappointed?"

 

To top it off, Trachsel actually thinks he had good stuff yesterday.

 

"My stuff was pretty good," he said. "I was strong early. A couple of sacrifice flies and a solo home run."

 

Cubs might have lost by 10 if he had his bad stuff.

 

 

 

http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/cubs/cs-070927cubsbrite,1,3942748.story?coll=cs-home-headlines

 

 

This is where Lou is really wrong. His 5th starter has an ERA of 4.00. For some reason Lou chose to go with his 6th starter who really sucks.

[soapy]

i hate to even say someting like this, but i almost hope that there is something (minor) wrong with Marshall. that would be the only plausable explination for not using him yesterday. Even then, Hart probably would have been a better choice.

[CubColtPacer]

i hate to even say someting like this, but i almost hope that there is something (minor) wrong with Marshall. that would be the only plausable explination for not using him yesterday. Even then, Hart probably would have been a better choice.

 

Yeah, that's the only thing that fits the evidence for me. First, Marshall starts getting pulled earlier and earlier in games, even games he's effective in and in strange spots. He didn't break 85 pitches once in August despite a couple effective starts, which is very unusual. Add to that a generally ineffective August, and suddenly they trade for Trachsel. Then in the doubleheader game, Marshall again struggles. He's only been anywhere near this number of innings once (last year) and last year he was also ineffective as his innings grew. I think his arm isn't used to the workload and is pretty dead right now.

[Keener98]

How is this thread on page 4? So far almost the entire playoffs have been dumb decisions by Piniella, minus starting Soto. Seriously I know its not Pinellas fault that the Cubs havent hit, or that Lilly pitched like crap, but between taking Z out after only throwing 85 pitches, and then leaving Lilly in so long when it was obvious as hell Lilly had nothing, is Lou the one managing his 1st post season? Or was he saving the bullpen for game 4 also?

[hardcorecubfan]

How is this thread on page 4? So far almost the entire playoffs have been dumb decisions by Piniella, minus starting Soto. Seriously I know its not Pinellas fault that the Cubs havent hit, or that Lilly pitched like crap, but between taking Z out after only throwing 85 pitches, and then leaving Lilly in so long when it was obvious as hell Lilly had nothing, is Lou the one managing his 1st post season? Or was he saving the bullpen for game 4 also?

 

It wasn't dumb to take "Z" out Marmol has been pretty darn reliable. who new it wouldn't be this time

[Keener98]

How is this thread on page 4? So far almost the entire playoffs have been dumb decisions by Piniella, minus starting Soto. Seriously I know its not Pinellas fault that the Cubs havent hit, or that Lilly pitched like crap, but between taking Z out after only throwing 85 pitches, and then leaving Lilly in so long when it was obvious as hell Lilly had nothing, is Lou the one managing his 1st post season? Or was he saving the bullpen for game 4 also?

 

It wasn't dumb to take "Z" out Marmol has been pretty darn reliable. who new it wouldn't be this time

 

I dont care how reliabel Marmol had been. You dont take out a pitcher who was dominating to try and save him for a game 4, that you cant get to unless you win a game. You win the game you are playing, before worrying about trying to win a game 4.

[hardcorecubfan]

How is this thread on page 4? So far almost the entire playoffs have been dumb decisions by Piniella, minus starting Soto. Seriously I know its not Pinellas fault that the Cubs havent hit, or that Lilly pitched like crap, but between taking Z out after only throwing 85 pitches, and then leaving Lilly in so long when it was obvious as hell Lilly had nothing, is Lou the one managing his 1st post season? Or was he saving the bullpen for game 4 also?

 

It wasn't dumb to take "Z" out Marmol has been pretty darn reliable. who new it wouldn't be this time

 

I dont care how reliabel Marmol had been. You dont take out a pitcher who was dominating to try and save him for a game 4, that you cant get to unless you win a game. You win the game you are playing, before worrying about trying to win a game 4.

 

It was a gamble and Lou lost, but at least he tried something.

This team does not take chances, they won't even tag up on a fly ball with a weak throwing right fielder

[Keener98]

How is this thread on page 4? So far almost the entire playoffs have been dumb decisions by Piniella, minus starting Soto. Seriously I know its not Pinellas fault that the Cubs havent hit, or that Lilly pitched like crap, but between taking Z out after only throwing 85 pitches, and then leaving Lilly in so long when it was obvious as hell Lilly had nothing, is Lou the one managing his 1st post season? Or was he saving the bullpen for game 4 also?

 

It wasn't dumb to take "Z" out Marmol has been pretty darn reliable. who new it wouldn't be this time

 

I dont care how reliabel Marmol had been. You dont take out a pitcher who was dominating to try and save him for a game 4, that you cant get to unless you win a game. You win the game you are playing, before worrying about trying to win a game 4.

 

It was a gamble and Lou lost, but at least he tried something.

This team does not take chances, they won't even tag up on a fly ball with a weak throwing right fielder

 

LOL what? At least he tried something? What the hell? The move was ignorant plain and simple. Lou had to expect Marmol to be nervous, and on any given night, any reliever can have a bad night, so why take out the guy who you know is dominating? Then leaving Lilly in, when he had nothing? Lou has soap dropped this series.

[E.J.]

Lilly was awful last night, and every Cub fan in America knew it, but for some reason Lou decided to leave him in there. I didn't mind Lou taking out Z to put in Marmol, but leaving Lilly in too long was just terrible managing.

[hardcorecubfan]

Not calling me up for this series!!!! I struck out 10 in a row in coach pitch softball for my daughter's ten year old team. I am qualified

[VanceJergins]

Lilly was awful last night, and every Cub fan in America knew it, but for some reason Lou decided to leave him in there. I didn't mind Lou taking out Z to put in Marmol, but leaving Lilly in too long was just terrible managing.

 

Lou definitely has not been helping the team. We had a RISP with Lilly up and Lou didn't pinch hit, and Lilly got one out the next inning and was pulled. I was yelling for Lou to take him out in the 3rd. Then later on he brings Eyre in to face a righty. WTF?

[Soul]

Sori + ARam + Lee a combined 4-for-27 so far.

 

Lou's stupidity = our big bats crapping the bed, methinks.

[erik316wttn]

Lilly was awful last night, and every Cub fan in America knew it, but for some reason Lou decided to leave him in there. I didn't mind Lou taking out Z to put in Marmol, but leaving Lilly in too long was just terrible managing.

 

The fact that he didn't even get off his dead ass to go out there and calm him down when he really needed it pissed me off even more.

[Elrhino]

I'm not usually big on second guessing the manager, but I couldn't believe he left Lilly in. It's a must win game in a short series ... I'm not exactly sure what you're saving the bullpen for/from. Especially frustrating since Wood could have nailed it shut for at least 2 innings.

[jaxxradio]

Saving Zambrano for game four was without question one of the stupidest thing I have seen this post-season. You can't save a pitcher to throw for a game that didn't exist then and still doesn't exist. What good is saving Zambrano if the Cubs lose on Saturday?

 

Post-season baseball is about winning the game at hand and NOT thinking about the immediate future.

[KingCubsFan]

Saving Zambrano for game four was without question one of the stupidest thing I have seen this post-season. You can't save a pitcher to throw for a game that didn't exist then and still doesn't exist. What good is saving Zambrano if the Cubs lose on Saturday?

 

Post-season baseball is about winning the game at hand and NOT thinking about the immediate future.

It's not like he replaced Zambrano with Marquis. Marmol has been lights out all year, and there's no reason to think he couldn't have pitched good innings in relief. We lost game one because we scored one run on 4 hits.

[BigbadB]

Saving Zambrano for game four was without question one of the stupidest thing I have seen this post-season. You can't save a pitcher to throw for a game that didn't exist then and still doesn't exist. What good is saving Zambrano if the Cubs lose on Saturday?

 

Post-season baseball is about winning the game at hand and NOT thinking about the immediate future.

 

Agreed. You play the current game like there is no other, and then worry about future games as they happen.

 

It's a horrible decision to make plans for game 4 when there is a possibility there won't even be a game 4. And you hope that if there isn't a game 4, it's because YOUR team swept the opposing team, not the other way around.

[kente777]

Saving Zambrano for game four was without question one of the stupidest thing I have seen this post-season. You can't save a pitcher to throw for a game that didn't exist then and still doesn't exist. What good is saving Zambrano if the Cubs lose on Saturday?

 

Post-season baseball is about winning the game at hand and NOT thinking about the immediate future.

 

Agreed. You play the current game like there is no other, and then worry about future games as they happen.

 

It's a horrible decision to make plans for game 4 when there is a possibility there won't even be a game 4. And you hope that if there isn't a game 4, it's because YOUR team swept the opposing team, not the other way around.

 

I cautiously agree. However, there is no guarantee we would have won that game. Seriously, have you seen the way our hitters have sucked? Of course you have. Keeping Z in for one more inning would not have helped our hitters hit.

 

Yes, you play to win the game. But I don't think there's anything wrong with looking at the big picture as well.

[BigbadB]

Saving Zambrano for game four was without question one of the stupidest thing I have seen this post-season. You can't save a pitcher to throw for a game that didn't exist then and still doesn't exist. What good is saving Zambrano if the Cubs lose on Saturday?

 

Post-season baseball is about winning the game at hand and NOT thinking about the immediate future.

It's not like he replaced Zambrano with Marquis. Marmol has been lights out all year, and there's no reason to think he couldn't have pitched good innings in relief. We lost game one because we scored one run on 4 hits.

 

Unless my math is fuzzy, Zambrano had only given up 1 run as well.

 

1-1 is not a loss.

 

And if Zambrano is asked to bunt to move Theriot to 3rd, it's quite possible that Soriano's fly out to CF scores Theriot.

 

Now you have Zambrano still pitching with a 2-1 lead.

[Guest]

Saving Zambrano for game four was without question one of the stupidest thing I have seen this post-season. You can't save a pitcher to throw for a game that didn't exist then and still doesn't exist. What good is saving Zambrano if the Cubs lose on Saturday?

 

Post-season baseball is about winning the game at hand and NOT thinking about the immediate future.

It's not like he replaced Zambrano with Marquis. Marmol has been lights out all year, and there's no reason to think he couldn't have pitched good innings in relief. We lost game one because we scored one run on 4 hits.

 

It's a tie game, Lou only trusts 2 guys in his pen. Assuming Marmol and Howry do well, they probably go for a combined 2-3 innings, Lou has to turn the pen over to Dempster who he doesn't trust. The decision to take out Z after 6 had multiple holes in it...Z was cruising and could have gone 1 inning and not really hurt himself for game 4, you're playing for a game that might not exist and the earlier you go to the bullpen, the earlier you get to the weak guys in the pen.

 

And I don't care that the Cubs had the advantage in the matchups in games 2 - 4. We saw what that meant yesterday - and we saw what it meant in 2003 with Prior and Wood in games 6 and 7. Take advantage of the game you can actually win then and there in a short series.

[Elrhino]

I didn't really have a problem with the Zambrano pull, because as stated above .. it's not like he went to a bad pitcher. He went to a guy who had a 1.10 WHIP and .169 BAA for the season.

 

I was much more disappointed with leaving Lilly in with the entire philosophy behind the decision. Lou's explaination seemed to be "Well, he's obviously struggling ... but I think that maybe he can pull things together and 'survive' until the 5th."

 

"Suriving" is what you want out of Marquis in June in the 5th inning of a tough outing. When you're down 4-2 in a must win game in a 5 game series a pitcher "surviving" shouldn't be your best case scenerio when you have some really good middle relievers available.

[Tracer Bullet]

Saving Zambrano for game four was without question one of the stupidest thing I have seen this post-season. You can't save a pitcher to throw for a game that didn't exist then and still doesn't exist. What good is saving Zambrano if the Cubs lose on Saturday?

 

Post-season baseball is about winning the game at hand and NOT thinking about the immediate future.

It's not like he replaced Zambrano with Marquis. Marmol has been lights out all year, and there's no reason to think he couldn't have pitched good innings in relief. We lost game one because we scored one run on 4 hits.

 

Unless my math is fuzzy, Zambrano had only given up 1 run as well.

 

1-1 is not a loss.

 

And if Zambrano is asked to bunt to move Theriot to 3rd, it's quite possible that Soriano's fly out to CF scores Theriot.

 

Now you have Zambrano still pitching with a 2-1 lead.

 

And if Lee had homered in every AB, we would have won!

 

Look, if you disagree w/ removing Z in a 1-1 tie, that's one thing, but your hypo imagines a Lou mistake (not bunting w/ Z w/ Theriot on 2nd & 0 out) didn't happen. In reality it was a 1-1 game and the really good guys in the pen were fresh.

 

I still think that if Z were left in and given up the lead, we'd be crucifying Lou for that. I'm no Lou apologist, I think he's made some really dumb moves. Lifting Z at that point is not one of them. It's completely illogical to play Game 1 of a 5 game serious as if it's Game 7 of the WS.

[Tracer Bullet]

Saving Zambrano for game four was without question one of the stupidest thing I have seen this post-season. You can't save a pitcher to throw for a game that didn't exist then and still doesn't exist. What good is saving Zambrano if the Cubs lose on Saturday?

 

Post-season baseball is about winning the game at hand and NOT thinking about the immediate future.

It's not like he replaced Zambrano with Marquis. Marmol has been lights out all year, and there's no reason to think he couldn't have pitched good innings in relief. We lost game one because we scored one run on 4 hits.

 

It's a tie game, Lou only trusts 2 guys in his pen. Assuming Marmol and Howry do well, they probably go for a combined 2-3 innings, Lou has to turn the pen over to Dempster who he doesn't trust. The decision to take out Z after 6 had multiple holes in it...Z was cruising and could have gone 1 inning and not really hurt himself for game 4, you're playing for a game that might not exist and the earlier you go to the bullpen, the earlier you get to the weak guys in the pen.

 

And I don't care that the Cubs had the advantage in the matchups in games 2 - 4. We saw what that meant yesterday - and we saw what it meant in 2003 with Prior and Wood in games 6 and 7. Take advantage of the game you can actually win then and there in a short series.

 

I disagree. I think Lou trusts Wood too. And if we get the lead, he's not going to go to anyone other than Dempster, so whether or not he "trusts" him is irrelevant, he wasn't going to pitch Dempster if we were tied or behind - only if we had the lead; and if we had it, he wasn't going to go to anyone other than Dempster.

 

So he needed 2 IP out of Marmol, Wood, and Howry, figuring the offense scores at least 1 and Dempster gets the save in the 9th. No issues w/ that move.