Dye, White Sox agree to extension

[Post Count Padder]

Jermaine Dye-OF-White Sox Aug. 18 - 1:36 pm et

 

According to FOXSports.com's Ken Rosenthal, the White Sox and Jermaine Dye have agreed to a two-year, $22 million extension with a mutual option for 2010.

 

Dye could have landed a four-year, $50 million or five-year, $60 million contract this winter if he could have avoided a substantial decline from his 2006 numbers. However, his ugly first half made him a far more reasonable signing fo the White Sox. Dye only figures to bounce back so far next year, but this is deal is short enough that it won't hurt the White Sox very much if Dye is little more than an average corner outfielder going forward. There's still going to be room for Ryan Sweeney and Brian Anderson if they prove they belong.

Source: FOXSports.com

[Prior4CyYoung]

LOL

[Jon]

I have a question: why?

[Prior4CyYoung]

I have a question: why?

 

Don't question the great Kenny Williams.

[UMFan83]

It's a bad deal but there's no doubt that Dye can still contribute for them. Maybe not $11 million dollars worth, but he has been making like $5 million a year the last 3 seasons so I guess they are doing it as gratitude for the last 3 years.

 

.311/.391/.680 with 12 HR since the All Star Break

[apete6]

I'd rather have Dye for the next 3 years/$33 than Soriano for the next 7/$126

[Balsa]

woof

[rawaction]

I don't think this is a bad deal for Dye. I think he's worth the $11M per on a short-term deal. And I think he will bounce back and have a decent year next year. However, I do think this is a bad deal for the Sox. I understand the team that won the series is still together for the most part, but they are also the same team that has been one of the worst teams in baseball since the 2006 AS break.

 

The team obviously isn't good enough as constructed. Why bring back that same team?

[NewUserName]

I dont think the White Sox are as far from competing as some here think. Starting pitching staff is pretty good. I dont know what they are going to do in center and left but it is very conceivable that Dye, Konerko and Thome all have .9-1 OPS next year. Fields is just as good as Crede. If somehow they get some production from left and center and their bullpen tightens up and Detroit and Cleveland dont get better, well they have a chance. If not they have a lot of good trade bait come next August if Williams doesnt ask for too much.

[rawaction]

I dont think the White Sox are as far from competing as some here think. Starting pitching staff is pretty good. I dont know what they are going to do in center and left but it is very conceivable that Dye, Konerko and Thome all have .9-1 OPS next year. Fields is just as good as Crede. If somehow they get some production from left and center and their bullpen tightens up and Detroit and Cleveland dont get better, well they have a chance. If not they have a lot of good trade bait come next August if Williams doesnt ask for too much.

 

Again, those are the same guys that couldn't win the last 2 years (3rd place in 06, last this year). As for their big 3 being over a .900 OPS next year, sure it's possible, but I wouldn't say "very conceivable". None of them are at .900 this year. Dye has only been that high twice in his career, and will be 34 next year. Thome is at .899 this year, but will be 37 next week, and at this point in his career is a health risk. Konerko has also been barely over .900 twice in his career, and will be 32 next year.

 

Not to mention, they play in the same division as the Twins, Tigers, and Indians. I think 3 of Sheff, Maggs, Granderson, Guillen (all at .880 OPS or higher), and Sizemore, Hafner, VMart, and even Mauer, Morneau, Cuddyer are more likely to be better offensively than the Sox big 3. All have the young pitching to be potentially miles better than the Sox.

[Backtobanks]

I dont think the White Sox are as far from competing as some here think. Starting pitching staff is pretty good. I dont know what they are going to do in center and left but it is very conceivable that Dye, Konerko and Thome all have .9-1 OPS next year. Fields is just as good as Crede. If somehow they get some production from left and center and their bullpen tightens up and Detroit and Cleveland dont get better, well they have a chance. If not they have a lot of good trade bait come next August if Williams doesnt ask for too much.

 

Kenny Williams needed to take lessons from Jon Daniels (Texas GM) on what to do with a team that has no chance of competing in 2007 or 2008. He should have received more for Iguchi and should have traded Dye, Konerko, and Contreras (if anyone would take him) at the deadline. This off season he should trade Uribe (if anyone wants him) and either Garland or Vasquez. The Sox are the 4th best team in their division and I can't see them passing the Tigers, Twins, or Indians for quite a few years since those teams are better and younger than the White Sox. Also, Reinsdorf is not noted for throwing around too much money at free agents, so there isn't much hope of a quick fix.

[UK1679666180]

Good move by the Sox. If Crede comes back 100% at 3B, Fields likely shifts to LF, there's two/thirds of the OF.

 

Given that OF, I don't know if they could trust Sweeney in CF though since non of them would have much range for any of the OF spots.

[biittner77]

Cubs dodge bullet.

[NewUserName]

I dont think the White Sox are as far from competing as some here think. Starting pitching staff is pretty good. I dont know what they are going to do in center and left but it is very conceivable that Dye, Konerko and Thome all have .9-1 OPS next year. Fields is just as good as Crede. If somehow they get some production from left and center and their bullpen tightens up and Detroit and Cleveland dont get better, well they have a chance. If not they have a lot of good trade bait come next August if Williams doesnt ask for too much.

 

Again, those are the same guys that couldn't win the last 2 years (3rd place in 06, last this year). As for their big 3 being over a .900 OPS next year, sure it's possible, but I wouldn't say "very conceivable". None of them are at .900 this year. Dye has only been that high twice in his career, and will be 34 next year. Thome is at .899 this year, but will be 37 next week, and at this point in his career is a health risk. Konerko has also been barely over .900 twice in his career, and will be 32 next year.

 

Not to mention, they play in the same division as the Twins, Tigers, and Indians. I think 3 of Sheff, Maggs, Granderson, Guillen (all at .880 OPS or higher), and Sizemore, Hafner, VMart, and even Mauer, Morneau, Cuddyer are more likely to be better offensively than the Sox big 3. All have the young pitching to be potentially miles better than the Sox.

 

 

I cant disagree with your post. I just think the ifs for the White Sox arent completely out of the question.

 

What I find a little discouraging is this. I am not sure the Cubs are better than the Sox. Certainly not better by a large margin.

[Careless]

why would you sign a guy who was an average player through his prime years to $11 million a year coming off a bad year after a really high babip (if quite good, though it was his only good year of the decade) year?

[biittner77]

why would you sign a guy who was an average player through his prime years to $11 million a year coming off a bad year after a really high babip (if quite good, though it was his only good year of the decade) year?

 

Sounds like something Hendry would do. Really glad he never got the chance.

[nilodnayr]

why would you sign a guy who was an average player through his prime years to $11 million a year coming off a bad year after a really high babip (if quite good, though it was his only good year of the decade) year?

 

Since when was a 334 BABIP on a 20.1 LD% really high? .013 above expected BABIP? Thats nothing. His BABIP is 256 this year on a 17.4 LD%. Thats .038 points below expected, or 3x as unluck as he was in 2006.

 

In 2005 he had a 286 BABIP on a 20.7 LD%. Thats .031 below expected.

 

Is Dye as good as his 2006 campaign? No, but hes better than he was in 2005 and better than hes been this year (especially because hes had to deal with injuries.

 

He has a 20.6M MORP for 2008-2009.

 

The Sox were hoping to have 4 serviceable, cheap OF options for 2008 with Anderson, Sweeney, Owens, and Fields (until he takes over for Crede in 2009). Of those Fields is the only one whos been anything close to adequate (only trails Konerko, Thome, and Dye in OPS).

 

With no adequate internal options, no options on the FA market for the $ or years, and PR, I don't see how this is nothing short of a really good move by the whitesox.

[Careless]

why would you sign a guy who was an average player through his prime years to $11 million a year coming off a bad year after a really high babip (if quite good, though it was his only good year of the decade) year?

 

Since when was a 334 BABIP on a 20.1 LD% really high? .013 above expected BABIP? Thats nothing. His BABIP is 256 this year on a 17.4 LD%. Thats .038 points below expected, or 3x as unluck as he was in 2006.

 

In 2005 he had a 286 BABIP on a 20.7 LD%. Thats .031 below expected.

 

Is Dye as good as his 2006 campaign? No, but hes better than he was in 2005 and better than hes been this year (especially because hes had to deal with injuries.

 

He has a 20.6M MORP for 2008-2009.

 

The Sox were hoping to have 4 serviceable, cheap OF options for 2008 with Anderson, Sweeney, Owens, and Fields (until he takes over for Crede in 2009). Of those Fields is the only one whos been anything close to adequate (only trails Konerko, Thome, and Dye in OPS).

 

With no adequate internal options, no options on the FA market for the $ or years, and PR, I don't see how this is nothing short of a really good move by the whitesox.

.334 is high when you have a career average of .297 over 5900 PAs and have only had a similarly high BABIP once, 5 or so years ago. Maybe he became a significantly better batter in terms of core skills at age 32 and this is just a fluke. I don't know, I don't watch the Sox. Maybe I'm way off base. Still, aside from last year and 2003 (a terrible injury year) he's been pretty average this decade. Not bad average, but $11 million average?

[nilodnayr]

why would you sign a guy who was an average player through his prime years to $11 million a year coming off a bad year after a really high babip (if quite good, though it was his only good year of the decade) year?

 

Since when was a 334 BABIP on a 20.1 LD% really high? .013 above expected BABIP? Thats nothing. His BABIP is 256 this year on a 17.4 LD%. Thats .038 points below expected, or 3x as unluck as he was in 2006.

 

In 2005 he had a 286 BABIP on a 20.7 LD%. Thats .031 below expected.

 

Is Dye as good as his 2006 campaign? No, but hes better than he was in 2005 and better than hes been this year (especially because hes had to deal with injuries.

 

He has a 20.6M MORP for 2008-2009.

 

The Sox were hoping to have 4 serviceable, cheap OF options for 2008 with Anderson, Sweeney, Owens, and Fields (until he takes over for Crede in 2009). Of those Fields is the only one whos been anything close to adequate (only trails Konerko, Thome, and Dye in OPS).

 

With no adequate internal options, no options on the FA market for the $ or years, and PR, I don't see how this is nothing short of a really good move by the whitesox.

.334 is high when you have a career average of .297 over 5900 PAs and have only had a similarly high BABIP once, 5 or so years ago. Maybe he became a significantly better batter in terms of core skills at age 32 and this is just a fluke. I don't know, I don't watch the Sox. Maybe I'm way off base. Still, aside from last year and 2003 (a terrible injury year) he's been pretty average this decade. Not bad average, but $11 million average?

 

Its more appropriate to look at the variance of the difference between his expected BABIP and actual BABIP. .013 "lucky" is not high whatsoever.

 

I think no one really expects him to repeat 2006, but hes provided very solid, consistant production over the course of his career. Like I said, you have to look at the opportunity costs. What are the white sox going to put in RF if they don't resign Dye?

 

Can they get production anywhere close to Dye's for similar or less money in a contract for similar or less years on the FA market? The answer is a resounding NO.

 

Can the whitesox offense afford to hand RF over to an unproven youngster (unproven as in they've all sucked this year) or a crappy 25th man. Again, the answer is a resounding NO.

 

Can the whitesox from a PR perspective let one of their more popular players leave in a critical time as their following is waning in a possible last place finish, just two years after a WS Ring? Again, a resounding NO.

 

Regardless of whether you believe a .013 BABIP over eBABIP is significantly high or not, I don't think anyone can dispute with the answer to those 3 questions, and thats all that really matters when making the decision.

[Backtobanks]

why would you sign a guy who was an average player through his prime years to $11 million a year coming off a bad year after a really high babip (if quite good, though it was his only good year of the decade) year?

 

Since when was a 334 BABIP on a 20.1 LD% really high? .013 above expected BABIP? Thats nothing. His BABIP is 256 this year on a 17.4 LD%. Thats .038 points below expected, or 3x as unluck as he was in 2006.

 

In 2005 he had a 286 BABIP on a 20.7 LD%. Thats .031 below expected.

 

Is Dye as good as his 2006 campaign? No, but hes better than he was in 2005 and better than hes been this year (especially because hes had to deal with injuries.

 

He has a 20.6M MORP for 2008-2009.

 

The Sox were hoping to have 4 serviceable, cheap OF options for 2008 with Anderson, Sweeney, Owens, and Fields (until he takes over for Crede in 2009). Of those Fields is the only one whos been anything close to adequate (only trails Konerko, Thome, and Dye in OPS).

 

With no adequate internal options, no options on the FA market for the $ or years, and PR, I don't see how this is nothing short of a really good move by the whitesox.

.334 is high when you have a career average of .297 over 5900 PAs and have only had a similarly high BABIP once, 5 or so years ago. Maybe he became a significantly better batter in terms of core skills at age 32 and this is just a fluke. I don't know, I don't watch the Sox. Maybe I'm way off base. Still, aside from last year and 2003 (a terrible injury year) he's been pretty average this decade. Not bad average, but $11 million average?

 

Its more appropriate to look at the variance of the difference between his expected BABIP and actual BABIP. .013 "lucky" is not high whatsoever.

 

I think no one really expects him to repeat 2006, but hes provided very solid, consistant production over the course of his career. Like I said, you have to look at the opportunity costs. What are the white sox going to put in RF if they don't resign Dye?

 

Can they get production anywhere close to Dye's for similar or less money in a contract for similar or less years on the FA market? The answer is a resounding NO.

 

Can the whitesox offense afford to hand RF over to an unproven youngster (unproven as in they've all sucked this year) or a crappy 25th man. Again, the answer is a resounding NO.

 

Can the whitesox from a PR perspective let one of their more popular players leave in a critical time as their following is waning in a possible last place finish, just two years after a WS Ring? Again, a resounding NO.

 

Regardless of whether you believe a .013 BABIP over eBABIP is significantly high or not, I don't think anyone can dispute with the answer to those 3 questions, and thats all that really matters when making the decision.

 

Resigning Dye was a good PR move, but a lousy baseball move. The Sox should have been big-time sellers at the deadline and should be selling again this off season. As I've written before, the Sox should have received more for Taguchi, traded Dye, Konerko, and Contreras (for a bag of sunflower seeds) at the deadline. During the off season, they should trade either Garland or Vasquez and Uribe (if anybody wants him).

The trading of Dye, Konerko, and Garland/Vasquez should have gotten them 2 major league ready players and at least 2 more very good prospects. The White Sox have no hope of competing in 2008, so their focus should have been on 2009-2010. They will be a 4th place club next year.

[nilodnayr]

why would you sign a guy who was an average player through his prime years to $11 million a year coming off a bad year after a really high babip (if quite good, though it was his only good year of the decade) year?

 

Since when was a 334 BABIP on a 20.1 LD% really high? .013 above expected BABIP? Thats nothing. His BABIP is 256 this year on a 17.4 LD%. Thats .038 points below expected, or 3x as unluck as he was in 2006.

 

In 2005 he had a 286 BABIP on a 20.7 LD%. Thats .031 below expected.

 

Is Dye as good as his 2006 campaign? No, but hes better than he was in 2005 and better than hes been this year (especially because hes had to deal with injuries.

 

He has a 20.6M MORP for 2008-2009.

 

The Sox were hoping to have 4 serviceable, cheap OF options for 2008 with Anderson, Sweeney, Owens, and Fields (until he takes over for Crede in 2009). Of those Fields is the only one whos been anything close to adequate (only trails Konerko, Thome, and Dye in OPS).

 

With no adequate internal options, no options on the FA market for the $ or years, and PR, I don't see how this is nothing short of a really good move by the whitesox.

.334 is high when you have a career average of .297 over 5900 PAs and have only had a similarly high BABIP once, 5 or so years ago. Maybe he became a significantly better batter in terms of core skills at age 32 and this is just a fluke. I don't know, I don't watch the Sox. Maybe I'm way off base. Still, aside from last year and 2003 (a terrible injury year) he's been pretty average this decade. Not bad average, but $11 million average?

 

Its more appropriate to look at the variance of the difference between his expected BABIP and actual BABIP. .013 "lucky" is not high whatsoever.

 

I think no one really expects him to repeat 2006, but hes provided very solid, consistant production over the course of his career. Like I said, you have to look at the opportunity costs. What are the white sox going to put in RF if they don't resign Dye?

 

Can they get production anywhere close to Dye's for similar or less money in a contract for similar or less years on the FA market? The answer is a resounding NO.

 

Can the whitesox offense afford to hand RF over to an unproven youngster (unproven as in they've all sucked this year) or a crappy 25th man. Again, the answer is a resounding NO.

 

Can the whitesox from a PR perspective let one of their more popular players leave in a critical time as their following is waning in a possible last place finish, just two years after a WS Ring? Again, a resounding NO.

 

Regardless of whether you believe a .013 BABIP over eBABIP is significantly high or not, I don't think anyone can dispute with the answer to those 3 questions, and thats all that really matters when making the decision.

 

Resigning Dye was a good PR move, but a lousy baseball move. The Sox should have been big-time sellers at the deadline and should be selling again this off season. As I've written before, the Sox should have received more for Taguchi, traded Dye, Konerko, and Contreras (for a bag of sunflower seeds) at the deadline. During the off season, they should trade either Garland or Vasquez and Uribe (if anybody wants him).

The trading of Dye, Konerko, and Garland/Vasquez should have gotten them 2 major league ready players and at least 2 more very good prospects. The White Sox have no hope of competing in 2008, so their focus should have been on 2009-2010. They will be a 4th place club next year.

 

Above all of what you said, if we are saying to hell with PR, we are rebuilding, the Sox should have traded Jenks. They had the opportunity to blow the whole thing up and they should have. But I can see how from a PR/business perspective thats hard to do (unless you're Wayne Huizenga). But if you aren't going to blow the whole thing up, this is an absolutely necessary signing.