Lou on Marquis

[Keener98]

Ok, maybe Im looking too much into this comment but does anybody else get that this might be Lou hinting at a possible change?

 

What can the Cubs do to get the right-hander on track?

 

"We'll start him Tuesday against Philadelphia," Piniella said.

 

From cubs.com

[pitchcs]

Huh?

[Banedon]

I'm not seeing what you're seeing there Keener...

[C.C.]

I'm not feeling ya. Seems to me like a straight forward comment.

[Keener98]

I'm not seeing what you're seeing there Keener...

 

I guess its just him saying he will get his start in Philly. I guess I would expect an answer such as "Larry will work with him in between starts, and hopefully we can get Jason back to pitching how he was earlier in the season." By him saying he will get his start in Philly it seems pretty short sighted doesnt it?

 

Or the fact that I just got off work and have been up for quite awile could be affecting my judgment lol

[kente777]

This is exactly what I fear....a Marquis meltdown...or should I say, the Marquis we all expected when he was signed.

 

I really hope the Cubs get a good starter by the trade deadline, but I'm not sure who's available. Z and Lily are a good 1 and 2, but I don't think Marquis should be a number 3...neither do I think Hill and Marshall should be for that matter.

 

I worry about how those bottom 3 guys will do in a playoff scenerio. It's like holding your breath and wondering what pitcher will show up on any given day.

 

Ken

[Magnetic Curses]

we're stuck with marquis for the next 2 seasons, sorry to tell ya. he's going to have to start. that's jim's fault.

[Banedon]

This is exactly what I fear....a Marquis meltdown...or should I say, the Marquis we all expected when he was signed.

 

I really hope the Cubs get a good starter by the trade deadline, but I'm not sure who's available. Z and Lily are a good 1 and 2, but I don't think Marquis should be a number 3...neither do I think Hill and Marshall should be for that matter.

 

I worry about how those bottom 3 guys will do in a playoff scenerio. It's like holding your breath and wondering what pitcher will show up on any given day.

 

Ken

 

Even if the Cubs were to go out and get a starter (which I don't think they are going to do), do you really think the Cubs would make Marquis the odd man out? It'd be Marshall. He's cheaper, easier to send down, and doesn't make the money that Marquis does.

 

Unless they fake a Marquis injury I guess....

[Keener98]

This is exactly what I fear....a Marquis meltdown...or should I say, the Marquis we all expected when he was signed.

 

I really hope the Cubs get a good starter by the trade deadline, but I'm not sure who's available. Z and Lily are a good 1 and 2, but I don't think Marquis should be a number 3...neither do I think Hill and Marshall should be for that matter.

 

I worry about how those bottom 3 guys will do in a playoff scenerio. It's like holding your breath and wondering what pitcher will show up on any given day.

 

Ken

 

I really dont understand all the talk about us needing a starter. Z and Lilly are a good 1-2 combo, and Rich Hill and Marshall's numbers are better than 3/4 of the #3 starters in baseball. Marshall seems to really catch alot of the "I just dont trust him" comments and can I ask why?

 

look at these numbers...2 2 1 1 2 4 0 6 2 2 1 You know what those numbers are? Those are the earned runs given up by Marshall in his 11 starts, seriously what more does this guy have to do to garner some faith?

 

Rich Hills numbers put him in the top 30 pitchers in baseball, and you dont think he is good enough to be a number 3 starter?

 

What do you expect out of a number 3, because you are going to be hard pressed to find somebody with better numbers than Hill and Marshall.

[kente777]

This is exactly what I fear....a Marquis meltdown...or should I say, the Marquis we all expected when he was signed.

 

I really hope the Cubs get a good starter by the trade deadline, but I'm not sure who's available. Z and Lily are a good 1 and 2, but I don't think Marquis should be a number 3...neither do I think Hill and Marshall should be for that matter.

 

I worry about how those bottom 3 guys will do in a playoff scenerio. It's like holding your breath and wondering what pitcher will show up on any given day.

 

Ken

 

I really dont understand all the talk about us needing a starter. Z and Lilly are a good 1-2 combo, and Rich Hill and Marshall's numbers are better than 3/4 of the #3 starters in baseball. Marshall seems to really catch alot of the "I just dont trust him" comments and can I ask why?

 

look at these numbers...2 2 1 1 2 4 0 6 2 2 1 You know what those numbers are? Those are the earned runs given up by Marshall in his 11 starts, seriously what more does this guy have to do to garner some faith?

 

Rich Hills numbers put him in the top 30 pitchers in baseball, and you dont think he is good enough to be a number 3 starter?

 

What do you expect out of a number 3, because you are going to be hard pressed to find somebody with better numbers than Hill and Marshall.

 

I have my doubts on how well they'll pitch in a playoff push in September. Hill started out great but has been unpredictable lately. The same for Marshall.

 

Assuming, the Cubs 5 starter rotation is set through the rest of the year, let's get together and talk at the end of September. I will gladly admit I was wrong if Marquis, Hill, and Marshall are pitching strong and consistent. All 3 have been showing signs of inconsistency.

 

I have my doubts, however. that in a playoff race, they will be consistent enough to win. If we don't get another bat, and it's looking more and more like we won't, it's gonna be our pitching that will define whether we are a legitimate playoff team or not.

Edited July 27, 2007 by kente777

[Abe Frohman]

I think Brenly made the statement a couple weeks ago that Jason Marquis was not throwing his changeup and off-speed pitches as frequently as he was earlier in the year. If I remember the rumors correctly, Marquis got hammered last year because he had too much faith in the fastball and threw it too much. That kinda sounds like he is resorting to that mold. I haven't really been paying attention but I will next time he takes the bump.

[Keener98]

This is exactly what I fear....a Marquis meltdown...or should I say, the Marquis we all expected when he was signed.

 

I really hope the Cubs get a good starter by the trade deadline, but I'm not sure who's available. Z and Lily are a good 1 and 2, but I don't think Marquis should be a number 3...neither do I think Hill and Marshall should be for that matter.

 

I worry about how those bottom 3 guys will do in a playoff scenerio. It's like holding your breath and wondering what pitcher will show up on any given day.

 

Ken

 

I really dont understand all the talk about us needing a starter. Z and Lilly are a good 1-2 combo, and Rich Hill and Marshall's numbers are better than 3/4 of the #3 starters in baseball. Marshall seems to really catch alot of the "I just dont trust him" comments and can I ask why?

 

look at these numbers...2 2 1 1 2 4 0 6 2 2 1 You know what those numbers are? Those are the earned runs given up by Marshall in his 11 starts, seriously what more does this guy have to do to garner some faith?

 

Rich Hills numbers put him in the top 30 pitchers in baseball, and you dont think he is good enough to be a number 3 starter?

 

What do you expect out of a number 3, because you are going to be hard pressed to find somebody with better numbers than Hill and Marshall.

 

I have my doubts on how well they'll pitch in a playoff push in September. Hill started out great but has been unpredictable lately. The same for Marshall.

 

Assuming, the Cubs 5 starter rotation is set through the rest of the year, let's get together and talk at the end of September. I will gladly admit I was wrong if Marquis, Hill, and Marshall are pitching strong and consistent. All 3 have been showing signs of inconsistency.

 

I have my doubts, however. that in a playoff race, they will be consistent enough to win. If we don't get another bat, and it's looking more and more like we won't, it's gonna be our pitching that will define whether we are a legitimate playoff team or not.

 

What about Marshalls numbers are inconsistent? 2 2 1 1 2 4 0 6 2 2 1 If thats not consistency, then I dont know what is

[jersey cubs fan]

I'm not seeing what you're seeing there Keener...

 

I guess its just him saying he will get his start in Philly. I guess I would expect an answer such as "Larry will work with him in between starts, and hopefully we can get Jason back to pitching how he was earlier in the season." By him saying he will get his start in Philly it seems pretty short sighted doesnt it?

 

Or the fact that I just got off work and have been up for quite awile could be affecting my judgment lol

 

I see why you'd think that. There's two ways of looking at it. Assuming somebody asked "what can you do with Marquis" Lou was either saying everything is status quo and he'll just go out there for his next start and hopefully perform well. Or he was sending a subtle hint that yeah, he's making his next start, but just the fact that I have to say that should tell you he's got a short leash.

 

After a strong start Marquis has an ERA over 5 in both June and July. There has been a start or two where he was "lucky" that some runs he gave up were unearned. One game in particular he gave up 6 runs but only 2 were "earned" due to Marquis' own error. His ERA is already at 4.20 and probably could be around 4.50 or higher considering the other runs he's let in. People mistakenly criticize Hill and Marshall for being inconsistent, but it's Marquis who is most inconsistent. He followed that complete game shutout earlier in the year with 3 of 4 terrible starts. 3 of his past 4 have been just as awful.

[kente777]

This is exactly what I fear....a Marquis meltdown...or should I say, the Marquis we all expected when he was signed.

 

I really hope the Cubs get a good starter by the trade deadline, but I'm not sure who's available. Z and Lily are a good 1 and 2, but I don't think Marquis should be a number 3...neither do I think Hill and Marshall should be for that matter.

 

I worry about how those bottom 3 guys will do in a playoff scenerio. It's like holding your breath and wondering what pitcher will show up on any given day.

 

Ken

 

I really dont understand all the talk about us needing a starter. Z and Lilly are a good 1-2 combo, and Rich Hill and Marshall's numbers are better than 3/4 of the #3 starters in baseball. Marshall seems to really catch alot of the "I just dont trust him" comments and can I ask why?

 

look at these numbers...2 2 1 1 2 4 0 6 2 2 1 You know what those numbers are? Those are the earned runs given up by Marshall in his 11 starts, seriously what more does this guy have to do to garner some faith?

 

Rich Hills numbers put him in the top 30 pitchers in baseball, and you dont think he is good enough to be a number 3 starter?

 

What do you expect out of a number 3, because you are going to be hard pressed to find somebody with better numbers than Hill and Marshall.

 

I have my doubts on how well they'll pitch in a playoff push in September. Hill started out great but has been unpredictable lately. The same for Marshall.

 

Assuming, the Cubs 5 starter rotation is set through the rest of the year, let's get together and talk at the end of September. I will gladly admit I was wrong if Marquis, Hill, and Marshall are pitching strong and consistent. All 3 have been showing signs of inconsistency.

 

I have my doubts, however. that in a playoff race, they will be consistent enough to win. If we don't get another bat, and it's looking more and more like we won't, it's gonna be our pitching that will define whether we are a legitimate playoff team or not.

 

What about Marshalls numbers are inconsistent? 2 2 1 1 2 4 0 6 2 2 1 If thats not consistency, then I dont know what is

 

So you went from Hill to Marshall?? :wink:

 

Well then make Marshall your number 3. Right now Marquis is in that position....do you think that's warranted?

 

Let's see how Marshall holds up under the pressure of a pennant race. I don't have the confidence that he will be consistent in a MUST WIN scenerio. As I said, I'll gladly admit if I'm wrong....and I hope I am.

[CubColtPacer]

I think Brenly made the statement a couple weeks ago that Jason Marquis was not throwing his changeup and off-speed pitches as frequently as he was earlier in the year. If I remember the rumors correctly, Marquis got hammered last year because he had too much faith in the fastball and threw it too much. That kinda sounds like he is resorting to that mold. I haven't really been paying attention but I will next time he takes the bump.

 

That's exactly what Ron Santo was saying last night. He said in his last outing, he got back to his breaking stuff (which is why he was successful), and then in the 5th inning you could hear him shaking his head after every pitch and saying "another fastball..come on Marquis, throw that breaking ball!" Ron thinks Marquis is more wild with his fastball, and when he tries to depend on it too much that's what causes his walk problems.

[Electron Blue]

This is exactly what I fear....a Marquis meltdown...or should I say, the Marquis we all expected when he was signed.

 

I really hope the Cubs get a good starter by the trade deadline, but I'm not sure who's available. Z and Lily are a good 1 and 2, but I don't think Marquis should be a number 3...neither do I think Hill and Marshall should be for that matter.

 

I worry about how those bottom 3 guys will do in a playoff scenerio. It's like holding your breath and wondering what pitcher will show up on any given day.

 

Ken

 

I really dont understand all the talk about us needing a starter. Z and Lilly are a good 1-2 combo, and Rich Hill and Marshall's numbers are better than 3/4 of the #3 starters in baseball. Marshall seems to really catch alot of the "I just dont trust him" comments and can I ask why?

 

look at these numbers...2 2 1 1 2 4 0 6 2 2 1 You know what those numbers are? Those are the earned runs given up by Marshall in his 11 starts, seriously what more does this guy have to do to garner some faith?

 

Rich Hills numbers put him in the top 30 pitchers in baseball, and you dont think he is good enough to be a number 3 starter?

 

What do you expect out of a number 3, because you are going to be hard pressed to find somebody with better numbers than Hill and Marshall.

 

I have my doubts on how well they'll pitch in a playoff push in September. Hill started out great but has been unpredictable lately. The same for Marshall.

 

Assuming, the Cubs 5 starter rotation is set through the rest of the year, let's get together and talk at the end of September. I will gladly admit I was wrong if Marquis, Hill, and Marshall are pitching strong and consistent. All 3 have been showing signs of inconsistency.

 

I have my doubts, however. that in a playoff race, they will be consistent enough to win. If we don't get another bat, and it's looking more and more like we won't, it's gonna be our pitching that will define whether we are a legitimate playoff team or not.

 

What about Marshalls numbers are inconsistent? 2 2 1 1 2 4 0 6 2 2 1 If thats not consistency, then I dont know what is

 

really? He had two bad games (only one really bad one), and has managed a quite decent ERA (3.25) and WHIP (1.26). Every pitcher is going to have a couple rough outings -- Sean has twice out of 11 starts, not bad considering his stats when they're averaged out.

 

EDIT: haha, I'm an illiterate moran -- misread your post. sorry keener :)

[Keener98]

This is exactly what I fear....a Marquis meltdown...or should I say, the Marquis we all expected when he was signed.

 

I really hope the Cubs get a good starter by the trade deadline, but I'm not sure who's available. Z and Lily are a good 1 and 2, but I don't think Marquis should be a number 3...neither do I think Hill and Marshall should be for that matter.

 

I worry about how those bottom 3 guys will do in a playoff scenerio. It's like holding your breath and wondering what pitcher will show up on any given day.

 

Ken

 

I really dont understand all the talk about us needing a starter. Z and Lilly are a good 1-2 combo, and Rich Hill and Marshall's numbers are better than 3/4 of the #3 starters in baseball. Marshall seems to really catch alot of the "I just dont trust him" comments and can I ask why?

 

look at these numbers...2 2 1 1 2 4 0 6 2 2 1 You know what those numbers are? Those are the earned runs given up by Marshall in his 11 starts, seriously what more does this guy have to do to garner some faith?

 

Rich Hills numbers put him in the top 30 pitchers in baseball, and you dont think he is good enough to be a number 3 starter?

 

What do you expect out of a number 3, because you are going to be hard pressed to find somebody with better numbers than Hill and Marshall.

 

I have my doubts on how well they'll pitch in a playoff push in September. Hill started out great but has been unpredictable lately. The same for Marshall.

 

Assuming, the Cubs 5 starter rotation is set through the rest of the year, let's get together and talk at the end of September. I will gladly admit I was wrong if Marquis, Hill, and Marshall are pitching strong and consistent. All 3 have been showing signs of inconsistency.

 

I have my doubts, however. that in a playoff race, they will be consistent enough to win. If we don't get another bat, and it's looking more and more like we won't, it's gonna be our pitching that will define whether we are a legitimate playoff team or not.

 

What about Marshalls numbers are inconsistent? 2 2 1 1 2 4 0 6 2 2 1 If thats not consistency, then I dont know what is

 

So you went from Hill to Marshall?? :wink:

 

Well then make Marshall your number 3. Right now Marquis is in that position....do you think that's warranted?

 

Let's see how Marshall holds up under the pressure of a pennant race. I don't have the confidence that he will be consistent in a MUST WIN scenerio. As I said, I'll gladly admit if I'm wrong....and I hope I am.

 

I dont know what you are talking about, 90% of my post was about Marshall and his earned runs given up so far this season. As for who is 1 2 3 4 5 right now, it doesnt mean a damn thing. After the 1st week of the season, and sometimes right after the ASB does your #1 usually face the other teams # 1 and same goes for the rest of the rotation. If the playoffs started today, and we were in them, I have no doubt in my mind that Marquis would not be the pitcher starting in game 3. And as far as them being consistent in a must win scenerio, Id like their chances against all the other teams 3rd best starter.

[YearofDaCubs]

Marquis is stubborn and doesn't want to listen. It's been documented a couple of times already and even Lou has once hinted at that. He had the same problem when he was with the Cards. If we were to make the playoffs, I can definitely see a scenario where he is left off the playoff roster. He's not good, and for a sinkerballer he gives up a whole lot of fly balls and homers.

[Keener98]

I'm not seeing what you're seeing there Keener...

 

I guess its just him saying he will get his start in Philly. I guess I would expect an answer such as "Larry will work with him in between starts, and hopefully we can get Jason back to pitching how he was earlier in the season." By him saying he will get his start in Philly it seems pretty short sighted doesnt it?

 

Or the fact that I just got off work and have been up for quite awile could be affecting my judgment lol

 

I see why you'd think that. There's two ways of looking at it. Assuming somebody asked "what can you do with Marquis" Lou was either saying everything is status quo and he'll just go out there for his next start and hopefully perform well. Or he was sending a subtle hint that yeah, he's making his next start, but just the fact that I have to say that should tell you he's got a short leash.

 

After a strong start Marquis has an ERA over 5 in both June and July. There has been a start or two where he was "lucky" that some runs he gave up were unearned. One game in particular he gave up 6 runs but only 2 were "earned" due to Marquis' own error. His ERA is already at 4.20 and probably could be around 4.50 or higher considering the other runs he's let in. People mistakenly criticize Hill and Marshall for being inconsistent, but it's Marquis who is most inconsistent. He followed that complete game shutout earlier in the year with 3 of 4 terrible starts. 3 of his past 4 have been just as awful.

 

Ok good Im not crazy in my thinking then :D Lou was asked what they could do to get him back on track, and he replied with" He will start in Philly", to me that sounds like a subtle hint of "Well hes getting a chance in Philly to right the ship, and if not we will look at the options".

[jersey cubs fan]

I'm not seeing what you're seeing there Keener...

 

I guess its just him saying he will get his start in Philly. I guess I would expect an answer such as "Larry will work with him in between starts, and hopefully we can get Jason back to pitching how he was earlier in the season." By him saying he will get his start in Philly it seems pretty short sighted doesnt it?

 

Or the fact that I just got off work and have been up for quite awile could be affecting my judgment lol

 

I see why you'd think that. There's two ways of looking at it. Assuming somebody asked "what can you do with Marquis" Lou was either saying everything is status quo and he'll just go out there for his next start and hopefully perform well. Or he was sending a subtle hint that yeah, he's making his next start, but just the fact that I have to say that should tell you he's got a short leash.

 

After a strong start Marquis has an ERA over 5 in both June and July. There has been a start or two where he was "lucky" that some runs he gave up were unearned. One game in particular he gave up 6 runs but only 2 were "earned" due to Marquis' own error. His ERA is already at 4.20 and probably could be around 4.50 or higher considering the other runs he's let in. People mistakenly criticize Hill and Marshall for being inconsistent, but it's Marquis who is most inconsistent. He followed that complete game shutout earlier in the year with 3 of 4 terrible starts. 3 of his past 4 have been just as awful.

 

Ok good Im not crazy in my thinking then :D Lou was asked what they could do to get him back on track, and he replied with" He will start in Philly", to me that sounds like a subtle hint of "Well hes getting a chance in Philly to right the ship, and if not we will look at the options".

 

If he really did say Marquis will start in Philly, perhaps he's being a lot less subtle than we think.

[TruffleShuffle]

Hill and Marshall are too young, better trade for some proven veterans who know how to win down the stretch.

[NCCubFan]

If he really did say Marquis will start in Philly, perhaps he's being a lot less subtle than we think.

Lou said against Philadelphia, not in.

"We'll start him Tuesday against Philadelphia' date='" Piniella said.[/quote']

[NewUserName]

Hill and Marshall are too young, better trade for some proven veterans who know how to win down the stretch.

 

 

Jose Contreras and Jack Morris?

[Keener98]

I'm not seeing what you're seeing there Keener...

 

I guess its just him saying he will get his start in Philly. I guess I would expect an answer such as "Larry will work with him in between starts, and hopefully we can get Jason back to pitching how he was earlier in the season." By him saying he will get his start in Philly it seems pretty short sighted doesnt it?

 

Or the fact that I just got off work and have been up for quite awile could be affecting my judgment lol

 

I see why you'd think that. There's two ways of looking at it. Assuming somebody asked "what can you do with Marquis" Lou was either saying everything is status quo and he'll just go out there for his next start and hopefully perform well. Or he was sending a subtle hint that yeah, he's making his next start, but just the fact that I have to say that should tell you he's got a short leash.

 

After a strong start Marquis has an ERA over 5 in both June and July. There has been a start or two where he was "lucky" that some runs he gave up were unearned. One game in particular he gave up 6 runs but only 2 were "earned" due to Marquis' own error. His ERA is already at 4.20 and probably could be around 4.50 or higher considering the other runs he's let in. People mistakenly criticize Hill and Marshall for being inconsistent, but it's Marquis who is most inconsistent. He followed that complete game shutout earlier in the year with 3 of 4 terrible starts. 3 of his past 4 have been just as awful.

 

Ok good Im not crazy in my thinking then :D Lou was asked what they could do to get him back on track, and he replied with" He will start in Philly", to me that sounds like a subtle hint of "Well hes getting a chance in Philly to right the ship, and if not we will look at the options".

 

If he really did say Marquis will start in Philly, perhaps he's being a lot less subtle than we think.

 

I need to go to bed #-o

[inari]

Sounds to good to be true. We're reading way too much into it, though. Marquis is not going to lose his spot in the rotation unless he's just epic-bad.

 

Imagine if we had Lilly and Meche.