Shortstop II + Fixing the Cubs + The Future

[brinoch]

im not so sure either of those teams value murt's skillset which is why i suggested someone like Oakland or Toronto.

 

Well, he's not a relief pitcher, so I definitely don't think the Reds will want him. I don't know about Minny.

 

judging by some of the players they've employed or been low on, i don't think they'd really appreciate his skillset. On the other hand, he's cheap talent which probably would fit into their plans.

 

Somehow Jacque Jones comes to mind.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

It's a shame that Tejada got hurt. He'd be the perfect fit for this team.

 

He still might be, actually. On the other hand, who wants to take that risk?

 

Depending on the cost in players, I'd take it.

[brinoch]

It's a shame that Tejada got hurt. He'd be the perfect fit for this team.

 

He still might be, actually. On the other hand, who wants to take that risk?

 

Depending on the cost in players, I'd take it.

 

Theriot + Petrick.

[Mephistopheles]

that wouldnt get it done

[nilodnayr]

im not so sure either of those teams value murt's skillset which is why i suggested someone like Oakland or Toronto.

 

Well, he's not a relief pitcher, so I definitely don't think the Reds will want him. I don't know about Minny.

 

judging by some of the players they've employed or been low on, i don't think they'd really appreciate his skillset. On the other hand, he's cheap talent which probably would fit into their plans.

 

Somehow Jacque Jones comes to mind.

 

Yeah, while the twins are a team that likes to makes outs on purpose, they do have quite a pressing OF situation without the $ to be able to address it appropriately in the offseason. They might like Murton. Although they might just see him as Kubel-esque and pass. If they fall further out in the next week (and with the Yanks surging and Cuddyer injured they probably will) they should definitely listen to Hunter for young cheap OF offers. Hunter will probably go to TX in the offseason so they'll get a sandwich and a 2nd round pick, so not the draft bounty he could bring.

 

Meph, how many win upgrade would Hunter be?

[Mephistopheles]

It depends. He's playing over his head with his .305 EqA. His career EqA is only .273 and he's not the demon he once was in the OF. He probably average as a CF or a bit more than average. Ill conservatively give him +1 run over the remainder of the season and a .290 EqA is something hes done once before this season (.291 in 2002). With those we're looking at an additional 9.4 runs on offense .... in total about .9 wins pushing us to 90.6.

[nilodnayr]

It depends. He's playing over his head with his .305 EqA. His career EqA is only .273 and he's not the demon he once was in the OF. He probably average as a CF or a bit more than average. Ill conservatively give him +1 run over the remainder of the season and a .290 EqA is something hes done once before this season (.291 in 2002). With those we're looking at an additional 9.4 runs on offense .... in total about .9 wins pushing us to 90.6.

 

If I'm the twins, I'd take Jacque and Murton for Hunter and if I'm the cubs, it'd be nice to have that extra win and two extra draft picks next year to give to Wilken. I'm a murton fan, but its increasingly looking like he doesnt have a place in this organization.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

It's a shame that Tejada got hurt. He'd be the perfect fit for this team.

 

He still might be, actually. On the other hand, who wants to take that risk?

 

Depending on the cost in players, I'd take it.

 

Theriot + Petrick.

 

I'd take the risk, though I might try Cedeno + Petrick.

 

But either way, it's a small price to pay for the upgrade if Tejeda comes back healthy.

[Keener98]

It's a shame that Tejada got hurt. He'd be the perfect fit for this team.

 

He still might be, actually. On the other hand, who wants to take that risk?

 

Depending on the cost in players, I'd take it.

 

Theriot + Petrick.

 

I'd take the risk, though I might try Cedeno + Petrick.

 

But either way, it's a small price to pay for the upgrade if Tejeda comes back healthy.

 

Looks like Tejada could be back by the end of this week. He has already started doing baseball activities, I just wonder if there is any chance he could get moved.

[Rob]

I'm not too terribly interested in acquiring Glaus to play short or right. Don't get me wrong, I know he'd be a pretty huge upgrade over what we've gotten at either position this year. Looking just at short though, I'm not convinced that the gain on offense is enough to cover for the loss in defense paired with the cost of acquiring him (both the money and the talent being shipped to Toronto). If we could get him on the cheap, I'd jump on the bandwagon in a moment. Going forward though, I'm not convinced that this is the best thing for the team a couple years from now.

 

Glaus in RF did get me thinking, though. While I do think that would be an upgrade, there's somebody else I'd much rather acquire to play out of position.

 

Mark Teixeira is available, under contract for one more season, and a beast on offense. He has previous RF experience, and was about the definition of average defensively out there.

 

Considering the needs of Texas, we might be able to get a deal done involving Soto, EPatt, and Veal... all three of whom I'm sure the Cubs will screw up anyways.

 

Meph, what do the numbers say about this idea?

[E.J.]

I'm not too terribly interested in acquiring Glaus to play short or right. Don't get me wrong, I know he'd be a pretty huge upgrade over what we've gotten at either position this year. Looking just at short though, I'm not convinced that the gain on offense is enough to cover for the loss in defense paired with the cost of acquiring him (both the money and the talent being shipped to Toronto). If we could get him on the cheap, I'd jump on the bandwagon in a moment. Going forward though, I'm not convinced that this is the best thing for the team a couple years from now.

 

Glaus in RF did get me thinking, though. While I do think that would be an upgrade, there's somebody else I'd much rather acquire to play out of position.

 

Mark Teixeira is available, under contract for one more season, and a beast on offense. He has previous RF experience, and was about the definition of average defensively out there.

 

Considering the needs of Texas, we might be able to get a deal done involving Soto, EPatt, and Veal... all three of whom I'm sure the Cubs will screw up anyways.

 

Meph, what do the numbers say about this idea?

 

It's definitely going to cost more than Soto, EPatt, and Veal to get Tex, but I would absolutely love to have him on the team. Could you imagine a lineup like this:

 

1. Soriano LF

2. Derosa 2b

3. Lee 1b

4. Aram 3b

5. Teixeira RF

6. Jones CF

7. Cedeno/Theriot SS

8. Hill/Kendall

9. pitcher

 

 

=P~

[Rob]

I'm not too terribly interested in acquiring Glaus to play short or right. Don't get me wrong, I know he'd be a pretty huge upgrade over what we've gotten at either position this year. Looking just at short though, I'm not convinced that the gain on offense is enough to cover for the loss in defense paired with the cost of acquiring him (both the money and the talent being shipped to Toronto). If we could get him on the cheap, I'd jump on the bandwagon in a moment. Going forward though, I'm not convinced that this is the best thing for the team a couple years from now.

 

Glaus in RF did get me thinking, though. While I do think that would be an upgrade, there's somebody else I'd much rather acquire to play out of position.

 

Mark Teixeira is available, under contract for one more season, and a beast on offense. He has previous RF experience, and was about the definition of average defensively out there.

 

Considering the needs of Texas, we might be able to get a deal done involving Soto, EPatt, and Veal... all three of whom I'm sure the Cubs will screw up anyways.

 

Meph, what do the numbers say about this idea?

 

It's definitely going to cost more than Soto, EPatt, and Veal to get Tex, but I would absolutely love to have him on the team. Could you imagine a lineup like this:

 

1. Soriano LF

2. Derosa 2b

3. Lee 1b

4. Aram 3b

5. Teixeira RF

6. Jones CF

7. Cedeno/Theriot SS

8. Hill/Kendall

9. pitcher

 

 

=P~

 

Yeah, I'm fairly certain it would cost more than that. But I think those three would be useful to the Rangers in pretty short time, and would be a very good starting point. I'd be willing to part with Huseby as well... and I think that might get it done. All four of those guys would immediately jump into the Rangers top 10 prospects.

[nilodnayr]

I'm not too terribly interested in acquiring Glaus to play short or right. Don't get me wrong, I know he'd be a pretty huge upgrade over what we've gotten at either position this year. Looking just at short though, I'm not convinced that the gain on offense is enough to cover for the loss in defense paired with the cost of acquiring him (both the money and the talent being shipped to Toronto). If we could get him on the cheap, I'd jump on the bandwagon in a moment. Going forward though, I'm not convinced that this is the best thing for the team a couple years from now.

 

Glaus in RF did get me thinking, though. While I do think that would be an upgrade, there's somebody else I'd much rather acquire to play out of position.

 

Mark Teixeira is available, under contract for one more season, and a beast on offense. He has previous RF experience, and was about the definition of average defensively out there.

 

Considering the needs of Texas, we might be able to get a deal done involving Soto, EPatt, and Veal... all three of whom I'm sure the Cubs will screw up anyways.

 

Meph, what do the numbers say about this idea?

 

It's definitely going to cost more than Soto, EPatt, and Veal to get Tex, but I would absolutely love to have him on the team. Could you imagine a lineup like this:

 

1. Soriano LF

2. Derosa 2b

3. Lee 1b

4. Aram 3b

5. Teixeira RF

6. Jones CF

7. Cedeno/Theriot SS

8. Hill/Kendall

9. pitcher

 

 

=P~

 

1. Soriano LF

2. Lee 1b

3. Teixeira RF

4. Aram 3b

5. DeRosa 2B

6. Jones CF

7. Cedeno/Theriot SS

8. Hill/Kendall

9. pitcher

 

Much better

[Rob]

I'm not too terribly interested in acquiring Glaus to play short or right. Don't get me wrong, I know he'd be a pretty huge upgrade over what we've gotten at either position this year. Looking just at short though, I'm not convinced that the gain on offense is enough to cover for the loss in defense paired with the cost of acquiring him (both the money and the talent being shipped to Toronto). If we could get him on the cheap, I'd jump on the bandwagon in a moment. Going forward though, I'm not convinced that this is the best thing for the team a couple years from now.

 

Glaus in RF did get me thinking, though. While I do think that would be an upgrade, there's somebody else I'd much rather acquire to play out of position.

 

Mark Teixeira is available, under contract for one more season, and a beast on offense. He has previous RF experience, and was about the definition of average defensively out there.

 

Considering the needs of Texas, we might be able to get a deal done involving Soto, EPatt, and Veal... all three of whom I'm sure the Cubs will screw up anyways.

 

Meph, what do the numbers say about this idea?

 

It's definitely going to cost more than Soto, EPatt, and Veal to get Tex, but I would absolutely love to have him on the team. Could you imagine a lineup like this:

 

1. Soriano LF

2. Derosa 2b

3. Lee 1b

4. Aram 3b

5. Teixeira RF

6. Jones CF

7. Cedeno/Theriot SS

8. Hill/Kendall

9. pitcher

 

 

=P~

 

1. Soriano LF

2. Lee 1b

3. Teixeira RF

4. Aram 3b

5. DeRosa 2B

6. Jones CF

7. Cedeno/Theriot SS

8. Hill/Kendall

9. pitcher

 

Much better

 

Soriano LF

Lee 1B

Teixeira RF

Ramirez 3B

DeRosa 2B

Jones CF

Cedeno/Theriot SS

P

Hill/Kendall

 

Even better still. :wink:

[biittner77]

While we're floating unconventional ideas out there, can Derosa play CF? He wouldn't have great speed but if he could not embarass himself it would be much more useful than having Pagan be the RH part of a platoon.

 

Assuming Cedeno replaces Moore the lineup against LH pitching would be

 

Soriano

Theriot - 2nd base

Lee

Ramirez

Derosa

Fox

Cedeno

.100 hitting catcher du jour

pitcher

 

Didn't the Cubs toy with having Theriot play CF in ST?

[CubColtPacer]

While we're floating unconventional ideas out there, can Derosa play CF? He wouldn't have great speed but if he could not embarass himself it would be much more useful than having Pagan be the RH part of a platoon.

 

Assuming Cedeno replaces Moore the lineup against LH pitching would be

 

Soriano

Theriot - 2nd base

Lee

Ramirez

Derosa

Fox

Cedeno

.100 hitting catcher du jour

pitcher

 

Didn't the Cubs toy with having Theriot play CF in ST?

 

Is Theriot that much better than Pagan though? In that scenario, I'd rather have DeRosa play second and Pagan CF.

The offense would be similar between Theriot and Pagan (and right now possibly even a small edge to Pagan), and the defense of course would be much better with DeRosa at second and Pagan in CF.

[Mephistopheles]

Teixeira would play fine in RF. Better bat and similar glove, but as you admitted it would be too costly. I'd think a package for him would have to start with Pie and Marshall plus another two or three top level prospects. The Rangers have been dying to get good centerfielders in their system for a couple years now. They added Tenn's Borbon this year in the draft, but they would certainly covet Pie as much as any team in baseball if we thought about dealing him -- which we won't.

[Mephistopheles]

the numbers...to keep things consistent im not going to include todays L.

 

+22.9 runs on offense.

 

His defense is a little trickier. Im going to give a conservative +3.

 

91.9 Ws

[Rob]

Teixeira would play fine in RF. Better bat and similar glove, but as you admitted it would be too costly. I'd think a package for him would have to start with Pie and Marshall plus another two or three top level prospects. The Rangers have been dying to get good centerfielders in their system for a couple years now. They added Tenn's Borbon this year in the draft, but they would certainly covet Pie as much as any team in baseball if we thought about dealing him -- which we won't.

 

Personally, while I think they'll go straight after Pie, I think they'd fold on that demand if we held off and offered extra prospects. And since I still feel Marshall is outperforming what we can reasonably expect of him by a decent margin, I'd be willing to put him in the deal and see what a guy like Gallagher or Holliman could do as our fifth starter until Guzman gets healthy.

 

Veal, Marshall, EPatt, Huseby, and Soto might bankrupt our farm system, but I think it would be worthwhile to get Teixeira.

[Mephistopheles]

Why would Texas have any interest in the best prospect in that deal (Patterson). They already have a fine young 2B who is locked up for four more years and is probably going to wind up being considerably better than Patterson over the next 5-10 years.

 

The Rangers aren't going to trade Tex for some spare parts. Every single player you mentioned would be spare parts for them. They could use a ML ready starter like Marshall -- I'll give you that. Soto? Eh, maybe. Their needs reside in the outfield and at first if they dump Tex. The deal would have to involve Pie, and probably Marshall and/or Murton as well.

 

The deal you posted would get blown out of the water by 28 other ML teams and probably all 12 Japanese league teams

[Flames24Rulz]

Not big on the Glaus thing, but I would love Tex in RF. That would be studly.

[biittner77]

While we're floating unconventional ideas out there, can Derosa play CF? He wouldn't have great speed but if he could not embarass himself it would be much more useful than having Pagan be the RH part of a platoon.

 

Assuming Cedeno replaces Moore the lineup against LH pitching would be

 

Soriano

Theriot - 2nd base

Lee

Ramirez

Derosa

Fox

Cedeno

.100 hitting catcher du jour

pitcher

 

Didn't the Cubs toy with having Theriot play CF in ST?

 

Is Theriot that much better than Pagan though? In that scenario, I'd rather have DeRosa play second and Pagan CF.

The offense would be similar between Theriot and Pagan (and right now possibly even a small edge to Pagan), and the defense of course would be much better with DeRosa at second and Pagan in CF.

 

Pagan's OPS vs. LH pitching is a little below .800 which isn't bad provided he continues to slg over .500 against them. That doesn't seem very likely based on what he did last year.

 

Theriot's OPS vs LH is about .750 with a good and more likely sustainable OBP of ~.375

 

I'd rather have Theriot's .375 OBP batting 2nd aginst LH than I would have Pagan batting 7th.

[Rob]

Why would Texas have any interest in the best prospect in that deal (Patterson). They already have a fine young 2B who is locked up for four more years and is probably going to wind up being considerably better than Patterson over the next 5-10 years.

 

The Rangers aren't going to trade Tex for some spare parts. Every single player you mentioned would be spare parts for them. They could use a ML ready starter like Marshall -- I'll give you that. Soto? Eh, maybe. Their needs reside in the outfield and at first if they dump Tex. The deal would have to involve Pie, and probably Marshall and/or Murton as well.

 

The deal you posted would get blown out of the water by 28 other ML teams and probably all 12 Japanese league teams

 

I don't think EPatt would be too terribly extended in CF, especially since all I keep hearing about him is that he's gonna have to move into the OF anyways. And Botts slots in nicely at the 1B vacancy.

[CubColtPacer]

While we're floating unconventional ideas out there, can Derosa play CF? He wouldn't have great speed but if he could not embarass himself it would be much more useful than having Pagan be the RH part of a platoon.

 

Assuming Cedeno replaces Moore the lineup against LH pitching would be

 

Soriano

Theriot - 2nd base

Lee

Ramirez

Derosa

Fox

Cedeno

.100 hitting catcher du jour

pitcher

 

Didn't the Cubs toy with having Theriot play CF in ST?

 

Is Theriot that much better than Pagan though? In that scenario, I'd rather have DeRosa play second and Pagan CF.

The offense would be similar between Theriot and Pagan (and right now possibly even a small edge to Pagan), and the defense of course would be much better with DeRosa at second and Pagan in CF.

 

Pagan's OPS vs. LH pitching is a little below .800 which isn't bad provided he continues to slg over .500 against them. That doesn't seem very likely based on what he did last year.

 

Theriot's OPS vs LH is about .750 with a good and more likely sustainable OBP of ~.375

 

I'd rather have Theriot's .375 OBP batting 2nd aginst LH than I would have Pagan batting 7th.

 

Theriot only has a .346 OBP against left-handers this year, not .375.

 

If it were just a battle between the two of them offensively against LHP, I wouldn't mind if the answer was Theriot-the two of them are very close in that department. When you consider the defensive ramifications of putting DeRosa or Theriot in CF though, that makes it much more of an edge for Pagan.

[biittner77]

While we're floating unconventional ideas out there, can Derosa play CF? He wouldn't have great speed but if he could not embarass himself it would be much more useful than having Pagan be the RH part of a platoon.

 

Assuming Cedeno replaces Moore the lineup against LH pitching would be

 

Soriano

Theriot - 2nd base

Lee

Ramirez

Derosa

Fox

Cedeno

.100 hitting catcher du jour

pitcher

 

Didn't the Cubs toy with having Theriot play CF in ST?

 

Is Theriot that much better than Pagan though? In that scenario, I'd rather have DeRosa play second and Pagan CF.

The offense would be similar between Theriot and Pagan (and right now possibly even a small edge to Pagan), and the defense of course would be much better with DeRosa at second and Pagan in CF.

 

Pagan's OPS vs. LH pitching is a little below .800 which isn't bad provided he continues to slg over .500 against them. That doesn't seem very likely based on what he did last year.

 

Theriot's OPS vs LH is about .750 with a good and more likely sustainable OBP of ~.375

 

I'd rather have Theriot's .375 OBP batting 2nd aginst LH than I would have Pagan batting 7th.

 

Theriot only has a .346 OBP against left-handers this year, not .375.

 

If it were just a battle between the two of them offensively against LHP, I wouldn't mind if the answer was Theriot-the two of them are very close in that department. When you consider the defensive ramifications of putting DeRosa or Theriot in CF though, that makes it much more of an edge for Pagan.

 

Huh, I overestimated his OBP and under estimated his slugging. In the end I was still pretty close with his OPS.

 

Anyway, I don't see Pagan as being much more than adequate in CF. The fact that they kept Jones in CF and Pagan in RF while Floyd was out suggests that the Cubs aren't exactly in awe of his CF defense either.

 

I guess based on experience Pagan does have the edge defensively. He justs makes too many outs.