Braves want young impact pitcher for Salty

[Mephistopheles]

hes actually top 40 in vorp right now. sorry

 

Really, is that updated for Saturday? I was just pulling it right off the BP stats page.

 

 

it doesnt include todays games. rich made his 19th start of the season today and that has him at 18 starts. He probably gained two or so runs on it today, pushing him up to the late 30s, but hell certainly be top 40 starters considering he was #41 going into the day -- there are four relievers ahead of him.

[nilodnayr]

I wouldn't give Salty for Arroyo either.

It will be interesting to see if the Reds involve Hatteberg into the deal. Salty has been playing 1st base for the Braves, so this way they get a SP and a 1st baseman.

 

I think I would ask for another prospect if Hatteberg was added into the deal, though. Maybe a lower level pitcher.

 

You think the reds should ask for another prospect from the braves?!?!? Arroyo has been absolutely brutul up until late. Hes signed to a fair contract, I don't see the point in trading for him when they can probably go out and find a guy like him in the FA market for the same pricetag.

As somebody who watches just about every Reds game, him struggling had more to do with Narron then it did Arroyo. He's been pitching MUCH better since Narron got canned.

 

While (as I acknowledged) he has pitched better lately, can you explain how Narron was the cause? I could be wrong, but I thought his turn around started before Narron was gone.

[reds44]

I wouldn't give Salty for Arroyo either.

It will be interesting to see if the Reds involve Hatteberg into the deal. Salty has been playing 1st base for the Braves, so this way they get a SP and a 1st baseman.

 

I think I would ask for another prospect if Hatteberg was added into the deal, though. Maybe a lower level pitcher.

 

I don't think Hatteberg would be enough for the Braves right now. Whether or not they should, they won't. They value Salty very highly.

It wouldn't be enough?

 

Hatteberg is a .300 hitter who walks alot. Arroyo, who is beginning to come back to form now that Narron is gone, would a great addition to their staff and is probably the best SP on the market.

 

I don't see the Braves getting a better offer then that.

 

And then they choose to keep Salty for now since there under no pressure to trade him.

Hatteberg and Arroyo are a substantial upgrade over Salty for THIS year. If they want to win THIS year, then they would do the deal.

 

I honeslty don't know, as a Reds fan, if I would trade Arroyo for Salty straight up.

Man, as a neither fan, if I were the braves theres no way I'd trade Salty for Arroyo straight up.

And I don't even disagree with you. Sometimes, a player is of greater value to a team then another.

 

In Arroyo, the Reds have a #2 starter to go along with Harang. With a team that's had awful pitching for years now, it's a great assest to have. Arroyo is very valuable to the Reds. Probably more so then he is to the Braves.

 

There's no pressing need to deal Arroyo.

[reds44]

I wouldn't give Salty for Arroyo either.

It will be interesting to see if the Reds involve Hatteberg into the deal. Salty has been playing 1st base for the Braves, so this way they get a SP and a 1st baseman.

 

I think I would ask for another prospect if Hatteberg was added into the deal, though. Maybe a lower level pitcher.

 

You think the reds should ask for another prospect from the braves?!?!? Arroyo has been absolutely brutul up until late. Hes signed to a fair contract, I don't see the point in trading for him when they can probably go out and find a guy like him in the FA market for the same pricetag.

As somebody who watches just about every Reds game, him struggling had more to do with Narron then it did Arroyo. He's been pitching MUCH better since Narron got canned.

 

While (as I acknowledged) he has pitched better lately, can you explain how Narron was the cause? I could be wrong, but I thought his turn around started before Narron was gone.

Just competley abused his arm. Well over 100 pitches everytime out, coming off a 240 inning year and pitching on the MLB tour in Japan. It was terrible to watch. Narron was managing to save his job, and it showed on Arroyo's arm.

[nilodnayr]

I wouldn't give Salty for Arroyo either.

It will be interesting to see if the Reds involve Hatteberg into the deal. Salty has been playing 1st base for the Braves, so this way they get a SP and a 1st baseman.

 

I think I would ask for another prospect if Hatteberg was added into the deal, though. Maybe a lower level pitcher.

 

You think the reds should ask for another prospect from the braves?!?!? Arroyo has been absolutely brutul up until late. Hes signed to a fair contract, I don't see the point in trading for him when they can probably go out and find a guy like him in the FA market for the same pricetag.

As somebody who watches just about every Reds game, him struggling had more to do with Narron then it did Arroyo. He's been pitching MUCH better since Narron got canned.

 

While (as I acknowledged) he has pitched better lately, can you explain how Narron was the cause? I could be wrong, but I thought his turn around started before Narron was gone.

 

June 29th was when Arroyo started his string of good starts, July 2nd was when Narron was fired.

[nilodnayr]

I wouldn't give Salty for Arroyo either.

It will be interesting to see if the Reds involve Hatteberg into the deal. Salty has been playing 1st base for the Braves, so this way they get a SP and a 1st baseman.

 

I think I would ask for another prospect if Hatteberg was added into the deal, though. Maybe a lower level pitcher.

 

You think the reds should ask for another prospect from the braves?!?!? Arroyo has been absolutely brutul up until late. Hes signed to a fair contract, I don't see the point in trading for him when they can probably go out and find a guy like him in the FA market for the same pricetag.

As somebody who watches just about every Reds game, him struggling had more to do with Narron then it did Arroyo. He's been pitching MUCH better since Narron got canned.

 

While (as I acknowledged) he has pitched better lately, can you explain how Narron was the cause? I could be wrong, but I thought his turn around started before Narron was gone.

Just competley abused his arm. Well over 100 pitches everytime out, coming off a 240 inning year and pitching on the MLB tour in Japan. It was terrible to watch. Narron was managing to save his job, and it showed on Arroyo's arm.

 

114 pitches in his first start after narron got canned.

 

Additionally, if anything Narrons abuse is going to taint him moving forward.

[Drew Doughty]

I wouldn't give Salty for Arroyo either.

It will be interesting to see if the Reds involve Hatteberg into the deal. Salty has been playing 1st base for the Braves, so this way they get a SP and a 1st baseman.

 

I think I would ask for another prospect if Hatteberg was added into the deal, though. Maybe a lower level pitcher.

 

You think the reds should ask for another prospect from the braves?!?!? Arroyo has been absolutely brutul up until late. Hes signed to a fair contract, I don't see the point in trading for him when they can probably go out and find a guy like him in the FA market for the same pricetag.

As somebody who watches just about every Reds game, him struggling had more to do with Narron then it did Arroyo. He's been pitching MUCH better since Narron got canned.

 

While (as I acknowledged) he has pitched better lately, can you explain how Narron was the cause? I could be wrong, but I thought his turn around started before Narron was gone.

 

June 29th was when Arroyo started his string of good starts, July 2nd was when Narron was fired.

 

well, he had good starts while narron was there, he's been far more consistent since narron was fired though.

 

whether that's the cause or not...I don't know. but i wouldn't point to one start to prove much of anything in this case. he had a similar 6 start stretch earlier this year.

[reds44]

I wouldn't give Salty for Arroyo either.

It will be interesting to see if the Reds involve Hatteberg into the deal. Salty has been playing 1st base for the Braves, so this way they get a SP and a 1st baseman.

 

I think I would ask for another prospect if Hatteberg was added into the deal, though. Maybe a lower level pitcher.

 

You think the reds should ask for another prospect from the braves?!?!? Arroyo has been absolutely brutul up until late. Hes signed to a fair contract, I don't see the point in trading for him when they can probably go out and find a guy like him in the FA market for the same pricetag.

As somebody who watches just about every Reds game, him struggling had more to do with Narron then it did Arroyo. He's been pitching MUCH better since Narron got canned.

 

While (as I acknowledged) he has pitched better lately, can you explain how Narron was the cause? I could be wrong, but I thought his turn around started before Narron was gone.

Just competley abused his arm. Well over 100 pitches everytime out, coming off a 240 inning year and pitching on the MLB tour in Japan. It was terrible to watch. Narron was managing to save his job, and it showed on Arroyo's arm.

 

114 pitches in his first start after narron got canned.

 

Additionally, if anything Narrons abuse is going to taint him moving forward.

Look at what happend to his numbers after the 130 pitch effort in San Diego.

[nilodnayr]

hes actually top 40 in vorp right now. sorry

 

Really, is that updated for Saturday? I was just pulling it right off the BP stats page.

 

 

it doesnt include todays games. rich made his 19th start of the season today and that has him at 18 starts. He probably gained two or so runs on it today, pushing him up to the late 30s, but hell certainly be top 40 starters considering he was #41 going into the day -- there are four relievers ahead of him.

 

Bah, forgot to filter IPs to weed out relievers. Thanks.

[nilodnayr]

I wouldn't give Salty for Arroyo either.

It will be interesting to see if the Reds involve Hatteberg into the deal. Salty has been playing 1st base for the Braves, so this way they get a SP and a 1st baseman.

 

I think I would ask for another prospect if Hatteberg was added into the deal, though. Maybe a lower level pitcher.

 

You think the reds should ask for another prospect from the braves?!?!? Arroyo has been absolutely brutul up until late. Hes signed to a fair contract, I don't see the point in trading for him when they can probably go out and find a guy like him in the FA market for the same pricetag.

As somebody who watches just about every Reds game, him struggling had more to do with Narron then it did Arroyo. He's been pitching MUCH better since Narron got canned.

 

While (as I acknowledged) he has pitched better lately, can you explain how Narron was the cause? I could be wrong, but I thought his turn around started before Narron was gone.

Just competley abused his arm. Well over 100 pitches everytime out, coming off a 240 inning year and pitching on the MLB tour in Japan. It was terrible to watch. Narron was managing to save his job, and it showed on Arroyo's arm.

 

114 pitches in his first start after narron got canned.

 

Additionally, if anything Narrons abuse is going to taint him moving forward.

Look at what happend to his numbers after the 130 pitch effort in San Diego.

 

No doubt, hes tainted goods.

[d_money]

Why wouldn't you deal Hill for Salty? That is a no brainer. Hill is replaceable. As we have seen this season, a young catcher that has similar ability to Russell Martin is not as easy to replace.

 

How exactly do you go about replacing Hill? He's a top 20-40 starter in the game under team control for the forseeable future.

 

Wow, that is a bold statement. I think that that this is wildly untrue but I would be happy to listen to you prove it.

 

THe jury's still out on Hill. He has yet to demonstrate that he can pitch consistently year over year. No stamina. If trading Hill is all it will take to get Salty, get Salty.

[Keener98]

Why wouldn't you deal Hill for Salty? That is a no brainer. Hill is replaceable. As we have seen this season, a young catcher that has similar ability to Russell Martin is not as easy to replace.

 

How exactly do you go about replacing Hill? He's a top 20-40 starter in the game under team control for the forseeable future.

 

Wow, that is a bold statement. I think that that this is wildly untrue but I would be happy to listen to you prove it.

 

His numbers since he became a full time starter prove it, so I dont know why you seem to think is such a wild bold statement.

[abuck1220]

Why wouldn't you deal Hill for Salty? That is a no brainer. Hill is replaceable. As we have seen this season, a young catcher that has similar ability to Russell Martin is not as easy to replace.

 

How exactly do you go about replacing Hill? He's a top 20-40 starter in the game under team control for the forseeable future.

 

Wow, that is a bold statement. I think that that this is wildly untrue but I would be happy to listen to you prove it.

 

THe jury's still out on Hill. He has yet to demonstrate that he can pitch consistently year over year. No stamina. If trading Hill is all it will take to get Salty, get Salty.

 

the jury's still out on hill, but you're sold on salty's 133 big league ab's?

[brinoch]

Why wouldn't you deal Hill for Salty? That is a no brainer. Hill is replaceable. As we have seen this season, a young catcher that has similar ability to Russell Martin is not as easy to replace.

 

How exactly do you go about replacing Hill? He's a top 20-40 starter in the game under team control for the forseeable future.

 

Wow, that is a bold statement. I think that that this is wildly untrue but I would be happy to listen to you prove it.

 

THe jury's still out on Hill. He has yet to demonstrate that he can pitch consistently year over year. No stamina. If trading Hill is all it will take to get Salty, get Salty.

 

You're right about the jury still being out; but the jury is considering whether Salty is enough return for Hill. Pitching is the most valuable commodity in baseball, and Hill's posted phenomenal numbers since he came back last year. What more does he need to do to prove his value to his detractors? He has a 1.14 WHIP, a 3.58 ERA and his K/9 is 8.01 (and to boot he's 14th in MLB in WHIP and his 105 K's places him 23rd in MLB). His numbers are better than Zambrano's in pretty much every category except W's and GS.

 

It seems each and every time he has any struggle he becomes 'one-pitch Rich' and everyone jumps on him.

 

We should be glad to have Hill. The trio of Zambrano, Lilly and Hill are among the best 1-3's in baseball.

 

But I guess Rich's lack of wins means that he isn't man enough to stand among the best pitchers in baseball. Instead we should relegate him to the bullpen or AAA.

Edited July 22, 2007 by brinoch

[abuck1220]

and saltalamacchia only wishes he was russell martin.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

If we could get the Braves to toss a young arm in return, I'd do Hill for Salty. For example, if the Braves would trade Salty + Reyes for Hill or Salty + Harrison, or Salty + Smith, I'd take the chance. I'm not sure I'd do Salty for Hill as an even exchange.

[shnsajax]

If we could get the Braves to toss a young arm in return, I'd do Hill for Salty. For example, if the Braves would trade Salty + Reyes for Hill or Salty + Harrison, or Salty + Smith, I'd take the chance. I'm not sure I'd do Salty for Hill as an even exchange.

 

I'd do it. Its a risk, but could be a good trade for both teams.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Why wouldn't you deal Hill for Salty? That is a no brainer. Hill is replaceable. As we have seen this season, a young catcher that has similar ability to Russell Martin is not as easy to replace.

 

How exactly do you go about replacing Hill? He's a top 20-40 starter in the game under team control for the forseeable future.

 

Wow, that is a bold statement. I think that that this is wildly untrue but I would be happy to listen to you prove it.

 

I'm a bit late, but since you asked me and I'm not a huge fan of VORP, I'll lay it out for you. As of today, among qualified starters(or at least 80 IP) Hill is:

 

31st in ERA

13th in WHIP

19th in K/9

34th in K/BB

21st in Average Game Score (whatever that's worth)

13th in Batting Average against

18th in OBP against

27th in OPS against

 

So, there you have it. What's the justification for Hill being outside the Top 40?

[Keener98]

Why wouldn't you deal Hill for Salty? That is a no brainer. Hill is replaceable. As we have seen this season, a young catcher that has similar ability to Russell Martin is not as easy to replace.

 

How exactly do you go about replacing Hill? He's a top 20-40 starter in the game under team control for the forseeable future.

 

Wow, that is a bold statement. I think that that this is wildly untrue but I would be happy to listen to you prove it.

 

I'm a bit late, but since you asked me and I'm not a huge fan of VORP, I'll lay it out for you. As of today, among qualified starters(or at least 80 IP) Hill is:

 

31st in ERA

13th in WHIP

19th in K/9

34th in K/BB

21st in Average Game Score (whatever that's worth)

13th in Batting Average against

18th in OBP against

27th in OPS against

 

So, there you have it. What's the justification for Hill being outside the Top 40?

 

He only has 1 pitch........

[JimSorgi]

If we could get the Braves to toss a young arm in return, I'd do Hill for Salty. For example, if the Braves would trade Salty + Reyes for Hill or Salty + Harrison, or Salty + Smith, I'd take the chance. I'm not sure I'd do Salty for Hill as an even exchange.

I'll do that. I'm a huge fan of Salty.

[shnsajax]

Why wouldn't you deal Hill for Salty? That is a no brainer. Hill is replaceable. As we have seen this season, a young catcher that has similar ability to Russell Martin is not as easy to replace.

 

How exactly do you go about replacing Hill? He's a top 20-40 starter in the game under team control for the forseeable future.

 

Wow, that is a bold statement. I think that that this is wildly untrue but I would be happy to listen to you prove it.

 

I'm a bit late, but since you asked me and I'm not a huge fan of VORP, I'll lay it out for you. As of today, among qualified starters(or at least 80 IP) Hill is:

 

31st in ERA

13th in WHIP

19th in K/9

34th in K/BB

21st in Average Game Score (whatever that's worth)

13th in Batting Average against

18th in OBP against

27th in OPS against

 

So, there you have it. What's the justification for Hill being outside the Top 40?

 

He only has 1 pitch........

 

To be fair he does have two pitches.

[XZero771679666304]

Why wouldn't you deal Hill for Salty? That is a no brainer. Hill is replaceable. As we have seen this season, a young catcher that has similar ability to Russell Martin is not as easy to replace.

 

How exactly do you go about replacing Hill? He's a top 20-40 starter in the game under team control for the forseeable future.

 

Wow, that is a bold statement. I think that that this is wildly untrue but I would be happy to listen to you prove it.

 

I'm a bit late, but since you asked me and I'm not a huge fan of VORP, I'll lay it out for you. As of today, among qualified starters(or at least 80 IP) Hill is:

 

31st in ERA

13th in WHIP

19th in K/9

34th in K/BB

21st in Average Game Score (whatever that's worth)

13th in Batting Average against

18th in OBP against

27th in OPS against

 

So, there you have it. What's the justification for Hill being outside the Top 40?

 

He only has 1 pitch........

 

To be fair he does have two pitches.

 

Maybe 1 1/2.

[mhuber92211]

and he is inconsistent. 1 good stretch, 1 bad stretch and so on. You never know which Hill you are getting

[Drew Doughty]

and he is inconsistent. 1 good stretch, 1 bad stretch and so on. You never know which Hill you are getting

 

that describes just about every pitcher in the game except for the top tier elite. even chris young wasn't amazing for his first 5 starts. though he hasn't had a bad start in weeks.

[KingCubsFan]

Why wouldn't you deal Hill for Salty? That is a no brainer. Hill is replaceable. As we have seen this season, a young catcher that has similar ability to Russell Martin is not as easy to replace.

 

How exactly do you go about replacing Hill? He's a top 20-40 starter in the game under team control for the forseeable future.

 

Wow, that is a bold statement. I think that that this is wildly untrue but I would be happy to listen to you prove it.

 

THe jury's still out on Hill. He has yet to demonstrate that he can pitch consistently year over year. No stamina. If trading Hill is all it will take to get Salty, get Salty.

 

You're right about the jury still being out; but the jury is considering whether Salty is enough return for Hill. Pitching is the most valuable commodity in baseball, and Hill's posted phenomenal numbers since he came back last year. What more does he need to do to prove his value to his detractors? He has a 1.14 WHIP, a 3.58 ERA and his K/9 is 8.01 (and to boot he's 14th in MLB in WHIP and his 105 K's places him 23rd in MLB). His numbers are better than Zambrano's in pretty much every category except W's and GS.

 

It seems each and every time he has any struggle he becomes 'one-pitch Rich' and everyone jumps on him.

 

We should be glad to have Hill. The trio of Zambrano, Lilly and Hill are among the best 1-3's in baseball.

 

But I guess Rich's lack of wins means that he isn't man enough to stand among the best pitchers in baseball. Instead we should relegate him to the bullpen or AAA.

I agree, but a young catcher who has the potential to be strong offensively is probably the rarest commodity in the game today (Mauer, Martin, Clement..???). I'm not sure if I'd do the trade, but I think getting Salty would be an OK return