Pittsburgh's defense

[CubmanPi]

As of the end of the 4-game series against the Brewers, the Pirates have played more than 100 consecutive innings without a single error on defense at any position.

 

With LaRoche heating up, all of a sudden this looks like a team that could fight with anyone in the league right now.

[killthegoat06]

100 innings without an error? Wow is that impressive.

[cheapseats]

Pittsburgh has one of the five worst defenses in major league baseball this year.

[Jake]

With LaRoche heating up, all of a sudden this looks like a team that could fight with anyone in the league right now.

 

We'll see over the next three games. We need to take two of three from yinz guys, with three pitchers not named Snell and Gorzelany. If we do, then, ....

Nah, it will never happen.

 

First of all, we're too far back right now. Second, our management won't go out and get us that one player that could put us over the top (I WISH FOR KENNY LOFTON!) Third, while Mahalom has come on as of late, VanB & Youman are still unknowns, so our starting pitching is suspect.

[abuck1220]

defense wins!

[cheapseats]

defense wins!

 

Well, again, they're the 26th-best defensive team in MLB. Not making errors doesn't necessarily mean good defense.

 

Good defensive teams usually are winning teams. The Cubs of last year were a (glaring) exception.

[Jake]

defense wins!

 

Well, again, they're the 26th-best defensive team in MLB. Not making errors doesn't necessarily mean good defense.

 

Good defensive teams usually are winning teams. The Cubs of last year were a (glaring) exception.

 

Where are you getting this from?

[Transmogrified Tiger]

defense wins!

 

Well, again, they're the 26th-best defensive team in MLB. Not making errors doesn't necessarily mean good defense.

 

Good defensive teams usually are winning teams. The Cubs of last year were a (glaring) exception.

 

Where are you getting this from?

 

http://www.baseballprospectus.com/statistics/sortable/index.php?cid=204024

[Bruno7481]

defense wins!

 

Well, again, they're the 26th-best defensive team in MLB. Not making errors doesn't necessarily mean good defense.

 

Good defensive teams usually are winning teams. The Cubs of last year were a (glaring) exception.

 

Where are you getting this from?

 

http://www.baseballprospectus.com/statistics/sortable/index.php?cid=204024

 

I am a little less inclined to look at those type of statistics when it comes to defensive ability. I think defense, moreso than hitting or pitching, can be judged better with your eyes.

 

For instance, I don't think I would consider this Cubs team to have a great defense, but according to those numbers they are ranked 3rd.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

defense wins!

 

Well, again, they're the 26th-best defensive team in MLB. Not making errors doesn't necessarily mean good defense.

 

Good defensive teams usually are winning teams. The Cubs of last year were a (glaring) exception.

 

Where are you getting this from?

 

http://www.baseballprospectus.com/statistics/sortable/index.php?cid=204024

 

I am a little less inclined to look at those type of statistics when it comes to defensive ability. I think defense, moreso than hitting or pitching, can be judged better with your eyes.

 

For instance, I don't think I would consider this Cubs team to have a great defense, but according to those numbers they are ranked 3rd.

 

Individually, yes, but team defense is different than the sum of the individual parts. While defensive efficiency isn't perfect(the Cubs can likely attribute that rating to their K happy pitching staff), it provides a fairly accurate picture of how well the entirety of the defense has been for a particular team.

[cheapseats]

defense wins!

 

Well, again, they're the 26th-best defensive team in MLB. Not making errors doesn't necessarily mean good defense.

 

Good defensive teams usually are winning teams. The Cubs of last year were a (glaring) exception.

 

Where are you getting this from?

 

http://www.baseballprospectus.com/statistics/sortable/index.php?cid=204024

 

I am a little less inclined to look at those type of statistics when it comes to defensive ability. I think defense, moreso than hitting or pitching, can be judged better with your eyes.

 

For instance, I don't think I would consider this Cubs team to have a great defense, but according to those numbers they are ranked 3rd.

 

Individually, yes, but team defense is different than the sum of the individual parts. While defensive efficiency isn't perfect(the Cubs can likely attribute that rating to their K happy pitching staff), it provides a fairly accurate picture of how well the entirety of the defense has been for a particular team.

 

I'm not sure how K's would figure in. Defensive efficiency measures the percentage of balls in play that are turned into outs. K's don't factor.

 

But I agree with your point: whatever you might believe about measurements of an individual's defense, team defense IS pretty easy to quantify with statistics.

[Bruno7481]

defense wins!

 

Well, again, they're the 26th-best defensive team in MLB. Not making errors doesn't necessarily mean good defense.

 

Good defensive teams usually are winning teams. The Cubs of last year were a (glaring) exception.

 

Where are you getting this from?

 

http://www.baseballprospectus.com/statistics/sortable/index.php?cid=204024

 

I am a little less inclined to look at those type of statistics when it comes to defensive ability. I think defense, moreso than hitting or pitching, can be judged better with your eyes.

 

For instance, I don't think I would consider this Cubs team to have a great defense, but according to those numbers they are ranked 3rd.

 

Individually, yes, but team defense is different than the sum of the individual parts. While defensive efficiency isn't perfect(the Cubs can likely attribute that rating to their K happy pitching staff), it provides a fairly accurate picture of how well the entirety of the defense has been for a particular team.

 

I'm not sure how K's would figure in. Defensive efficiency measures the percentage of balls in play that are turned into outs. K's don't factor.

 

.

 

So, a defense penalized when pitchers give up hits? How is it the defense fault when players shoot ball in the gaps, hit homeruns, etc.?

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

Pittsburgh's defense didn't look so hot tonight.

[Careless]

Pittsburgh's defense didn't look so hot tonight.

hey, they had no errors, they were perfect!

[cheapseats]

 

So, a defense penalized when pitchers give up hits? How is it the defense fault when players shoot ball in the gaps, hit homeruns, etc.?

 

You're certainly asking the right questions.

 

Homeruns (except for the inside-the-park variety) are not balls in play, so homeruns don't count against defensive efficiency.

 

Hits do count against the defense. Why? Because the evidence shows that pitchers have very little (if any) influence on whether a ball in play becomes a hit or not.

 

http://www.hardballtimes.com/main/article/another-look-at-dips1/

 

4 of the Cubs starting pitchers are in the top 40 in BABIP (batting average of balls in play) so far this season (min 75 innings pitched):

 

6. Jason Marquis

8. Rich Hill

21. Ted Lilly

29. Carlos Zambrano

[CubColtPacer]

 

So, a defense penalized when pitchers give up hits? How is it the defense fault when players shoot ball in the gaps, hit homeruns, etc.?

 

You're certainly asking the right questions.

 

Homeruns (except for the inside-the-park variety) are not balls in play, so homeruns don't count against defensive efficiency.

 

Hits do count against the defense. Why? Because the evidence shows that pitchers have very little (if any) influence on whether a ball in play becomes a hit or not.

 

http://www.hardballtimes.com/main/article/another-look-at-dips1/

 

4 of the Cubs starting pitchers are in the top 40 in BABIP (batting average of balls in play) so far this season (min 75 innings pitched):

 

6. Jason Marquis

8. Rich Hill

21. Ted Lilly

29. Carlos Zambrano

 

Z has his highest BABIP in 3 years. Ted Lilly has had 3 years of league average BABIP and 3 years below average in the past 6 years-this years number is not particularly unusual for him. There isn't much data on Hill, although last year was similar to this years (and significantly below league average). Marquis is the only one who hasn't shown a number like this years, and he has had a below average BABIP each of the last 3 years.

 

As a whole, expecting pitchers to maintain a similar BABIP doesn't end up proving out. However, some individual pitchers can maintain a consistently average or better BABIP, and the fact that out of those 4 pitchers you mentioned, there isn't a single season in the last 3 years in which even one of those pitchers was below average in BABIP. They are good bets to be above average in that department, and that can skew the team defense metric.

[Bruno7481]

 

So, a defense penalized when pitchers give up hits? How is it the defense fault when players shoot ball in the gaps, hit homeruns, etc.?

 

You're certainly asking the right questions.

 

Homeruns (except for the inside-the-park variety) are not balls in play, so homeruns don't count against defensive efficiency.

 

Hits do count against the defense. Why? Because the evidence shows that pitchers have very little (if any) influence on whether a ball in play becomes a hit or not.

 

http://www.hardballtimes.com/main/article/another-look-at-dips1/

 

4 of the Cubs starting pitchers are in the top 40 in BABIP (batting average of balls in play) so far this season (min 75 innings pitched):

 

6. Jason Marquis

8. Rich Hill

21. Ted Lilly

29. Carlos Zambrano

 

yeah my bad, I realized my mistake of asking about HR's right after I submitted that last post.

 

I think hose numbers have some value, but I still don't but into it 100% in the conclusion that Pittsburgh's defense is in the bottom 3 of the league.

Edited July 9, 2007 by Bruno7481

[Jake]

I'm not surprised by this.

 

Two major items contributing to this would be Freddy Sanchez at second and Ronnie Paulino behind the plate.

 

Freddy's playing a new position this year and missed most of spring training with a knee injury. Having said that, his defense is starting to come around.

 

Paulino, to be kind, has been abysmal defensively. Many of us wonder why he's playing so much, especially with his average down 90 points off of last year.

 

And, our outfied defense has also been very lax. Everyone is running on Jason Bay. Doumit is a catcher playing the outfield some times. We've also had Brad Eldred out there.

 

However, Chris Duffy, when he plays, has been getting to some balls that others wouldn't. Jack Wilson is doing above average at SS. Bautista seems competent at Third, and getting better.

 

I think, with Zach Duke out of the rotation, our defensive numbers will improve.