What to do about Cedeño?

[weis21]

What will we (should we) do with Ronny Cedeno? He has been tearing it up at AAA since he was sent down (385/.461/.566/1.027 as of 6/27), but I'm just not sure how much faith I have in him anymore. However, I'm hopeful that he's gotten some really good instruction at AAA and they have improved his plate discipline and technique.

 

Surely he's an upgrade over Izturis both offensively and defensively, but with Fontenot getting a start last night and Theriot spot starting, it's a bit of a log jam.

 

I guess I would be open to demoting Theriot, but if Cedeno doesn't get enough AB's then he may regress to what we saw earlier this year.

 

Selling high is certainly a possibility given his numbers right now, but it appears that Jim isn't one to do that. On top of that, who knows how many, if any, moves can be made with the new ownership dilemma.

Edited June 27, 2007 by weis21

[killthegoat06]

Who's Cendeno? :wink:

[weis21]

oops, is there a way i can fix the title? nm, just edit the first post.

[jersey cubs fan]

I would not hesitate to include him in a trade for any impact player. On the other hand, I'm not dying to get rid of him. A guy capable of putting up even mediocre numbers for the minimum price can be valuable.

 

I'd keep him in AAA for now, and see how the DeRosa/Fontenot combo works. But I would consider calling him up if, in a month, the Cubs haven't dealt for a real SS and aren't getting enough out of DeRosa/Fontenot.

[Drew Doughty]

wait for fontenot to cool off/lose his position defensively and call him up.

[Tracer Bullet]

I'd call him up. I like the idea of Cedeno and Fontenot up the middle with DeRosa playing spot duty. I'm just not confident DeRosa can continue putting up starter-worthy #s, I guess.

 

BTW - why is it that our log-jams are always Cedeno, Fontenot, Theriot or JJ and Floyd. Just once, I'd like to have a "we have Jeter and ARod that both play SS? Whatever will we do?" log-jam.

[jersey cubs fan]

I'd call him up. I like the idea of Cedeno and Fontenot up the middle with DeRosa playing spot duty. I'm just not confident DeRosa can continue putting up starter-worthy #s, I guess.

 

Even if you aren't confident, I think you have to keep giving DeRosa a shot. He's cooled off, but he's still getting on base.

[Warren Brusstar]

I'd call him up and either DFA Izturis or demote Theriot.

 

I suspect that this is simply a small-sample size fluke. But Cedeno can't possibly perform worse than the Izturis or Theriot. So there's no downside.

[RynoRules]

Cedeno's career is tracking a lot like Dubois' did, IMO.

[CubColtPacer]

I'd call him up. I like the idea of Cedeno and Fontenot up the middle with DeRosa playing spot duty. I'm just not confident DeRosa can continue putting up starter-worthy #s, I guess.

 

BTW - why is it that our log-jams are always Cedeno, Fontenot, Theriot or JJ and Floyd. Just once, I'd like to have a "we have Jeter and ARod that both play SS? Whatever will we do?" log-jam.

 

I agree that DeRosa is not a lock to keep putting up starter-like numbers, but I'm not sure why Cedeno and Fontenot should both be trusted to put up better numbers than DeRosa. How is Cedeno's 100 AAA at-bats worth more than DeRosa's last 800 ML at-bats? The same goes for Fontenot on a lesser scale.

If one of DeRosa or Fontneot start sliding majorly, then replace that one with Cedeno. Otherwise, there isn't really a good reason to make a change.

[killthegoat06]

I like Derosa more than Cedeno.

[cubfan1955]

I like Cedeno mor than Izturis.

[jersey cubs fan]

Cedeno's career is tracking a lot like Dubois' did, IMO.

 

It's very difficult to justify the comparison. Dubois played a spot that demanded solid production, and he was weak defensively. Cedeno plays a position where mediocre production can be tolerated, and he's good with the glove.

 

Dubois was a college guy who began to produce right away, but was always a tad old for his league. He was 24 when he first saw AA and 25 when he first saw AAA and the majors. Ronny was 21 in AA and 22 when he first saw AAA and the majors, and is just 24 at this moment. Dubois struck out at a considerably more frequent rate, a bit of a red flag for prospects who are old for their league.

 

I don't really see much similarity at all in their career track. That's not to say Ronny won't end up being a AAAA player. He might. I never had a ton of confidence in him, and was really surprised when he was an early 40-man roster addition way back before his first modestly decent season.

[killthegoat06]

I like Cedeno mor than Izturis.

 

No brainer.

[Tracer Bullet]

I'd call him up. I like the idea of Cedeno and Fontenot up the middle with DeRosa playing spot duty. I'm just not confident DeRosa can continue putting up starter-worthy #s, I guess.

 

Even if you aren't confident, I think you have to keep giving DeRosa a shot. He's cooled off, but he's still getting on base.

 

Yes he is and I'm never one to abandon a good source of OBP. But I'd like to see if Cedeno can actually play the SS position at the ML level and not be a total 0 with the bat. And Fontenot has played well enough to get a long look at 2B. But I guess I don't really care which of those two (Fontenot and DeRosa) gets the starts - I'm less concerned about finding a decent 2B than SS.

 

The only point I'd make about DeRosa's OBP is he's hitting in front of guys like Pagan, Hill, Bowen, Pie and the pitcher in most of his ABs. I'm not terribly surprised that he's finding it pretty easy to patiently wait for a decent pitch and walk if he doesn't get one. His AVG is still solid at .275 and it's not like he has a huge walk total, but it's not a huge leap of faith to think either Theriot or Fontenot can match that OBP at 2B.

 

And, I guess I'd like some pop at the 5/6 spot where he's been hitting. While his OBP has held pretty firm in the .340-.360 range most of the year, his SLG has been in a slow steady decline since the end of April. It's not like he has no power at all, but his XBH appear to fewer and farther between as the season goes on (he has 4 total in June: 3 doubles, 1 HR). He's a fine player and his overall #s still look pretty good, but I don't think he's a guy we have to have in the lineup. If Fontenot can basically match the .350 OBP and hit in the 2 spot, I'd call up Cedeno just to see if we can get more than a .600 OPS out of the SS position without trading for one.

 

Edit to add: I'm in no way saying Cedeno is that source of pop. If Lee, ARam and Floyd hit 3, 4, 5, maybe DeRosa is the only source of any power and has to hit 6th. Again, I'm not that concerned about who plays 2B this year - I don't see that choice impacting our win total a great deal. But if we can give Cedeno 3 months to see if he can be a decent SS at this level, and the cost is ABs for 2 of Theriot, Fontenot or DeRosa...meh.

Edited June 27, 2007 by yanrslatr

[jersey cubs fan]

If Fontenot can basically match the .350 OBP and hit in the 2 spot, I'd call up Cedeno just to see if we can get more than a .600 OPS out of the SS position without trading for one.

 

Certainly, but why not let Fontenot play their for now and see what he can do?

[BigbadB]

What to do with Cedeno.

 

It is imperative that the Iowa Cubs win the World Series, so he must be kept in Iowa all year. All sarcasm aside......

 

If a guy looks like he can help the parent club now, by all means, promote him. Especially if he's replacing someone whose production is a drag on the parent team (ahem, Izturis, ahem).

 

To me, this is a no brainer.

[Tracer Bullet]

If Fontenot can basically match the .350 OBP and hit in the 2 spot, I'd call up Cedeno just to see if we can get more than a .600 OPS out of the SS position without trading for one.

 

Certainly, but why not let Fontenot play their for now and see what he can do?

 

I edited my post a bit while you were posting this, but in reply I'd say: b/c Cedeno is tearing up AAA. He essentially tore up AAA the last time he was there (05). He really has nothing left to prove there. And maybe not having Dusty and his staff around will help him (or maybe he fixed what was broken this time around). Whatever the case, I'd like to give him some real time at the ML level to see if he can do anything here (he is still only 24). If he's a AAAA player, so be it. But we're not going to really know that unless he's up here getting ML ABs. And no other team is either, so I wouldn't think his trade value would be that high (and it's not like we'd be trading from a position of depth).

 

My preference would be to have Cedeno and Fontenot at SS and 2B respectively. DeRosa has been good, but not so good that you just have to play him. And frankly, if we can trade him and get decent value - go for it - let Theriot be supersub.

 

If DeRosa was absolutely crushing the ball, I'd say you have to keep him in the lineup - so you can only take a look at Cedeno or Fontenot (not both). But DeRosa's merely pretty good right now. If it's not likely to cost you a ton of runs to put him in a reserve role and call up a true SS that's owning AAA, I don't see how you don't make that move (which means sending Theriot down and getting rid of Izturis by whatever means necessary).

[Guest]

Cedeno's career is tracking a lot like Dubois' did, IMO.

 

I really don't see this comparison at all. They're vastly different players with different abilities who struggled in the big leagues after coming up in different paths (one a college guy with major strikeout problems and no defensive position, the other a raw, much younger MIF who had problems getting on base).

 

And Dubois can only dream of matching Cedeno's K/BB ratio at AAA while keeping his production up.

[Tracer Bullet]

I realize DeRosa (2B and 3-run HR today) is doing is best to make me look like an idiot for saying his SLG is trending down. Despite today's performance, I still think we should bring up Cedeno for Theriot and play either Fontenot or DeRosa (or a combo) at 2B.

[jersey cubs fan]

I'd call him up. I like the idea of Cedeno and Fontenot up the middle with DeRosa playing spot duty. I'm just not confident DeRosa can continue putting up starter-worthy #s, I guess.

 

Even if you aren't confident, I think you have to keep giving DeRosa a shot. He's cooled off, but he's still getting on base.

 

Yes he is and I'm never one to abandon a good source of OBP. But I'd like to see if Cedeno can actually play the SS position at the ML level and not be a total 0 with the bat. And Fontenot has played well enough to get a long look at 2B. But I guess I don't really care which of those two (Fontenot and DeRosa) gets the starts - I'm less concerned about finding a decent 2B than SS.

 

The only point I'd make about DeRosa's OBP is he's hitting in front of guys like Pagan, Hill, Bowen, Pie and the pitcher in most of his ABs. I'm not terribly surprised that he's finding it pretty easy to patiently wait for a decent pitch and walk if he doesn't get one. His AVG is still solid at .275 and it's not like he has a huge walk total, but it's not a huge leap of faith to think either Theriot or Fontenot can match that OBP at 2B.

 

And, I guess I'd like some pop at the 5/6 spot where he's been hitting. While his OBP has held pretty firm in the .340-.360 range most of the year, his SLG has been in a slow steady decline since the end of April. It's not like he has no power at all, but his XBH appear to fewer and farther between as the season goes on (he has 4 total in June: 3 doubles, 1 HR). He's a fine player and his overall #s still look pretty good, but I don't think he's a guy we have to have in the lineup. If Fontenot can basically match the .350 OBP and hit in the 2 spot, I'd call up Cedeno just to see if we can get more than a .600 OPS out of the SS position without trading for one.

 

Edit to add: I'm in no way saying Cedeno is that source of pop. If Lee, ARam and Floyd hit 3, 4, 5, maybe DeRosa is the only source of any power and has to hit 6th. Again, I'm not that concerned about who plays 2B this year - I don't see that choice impacting our win total a great deal. But if we can give Cedeno 3 months to see if he can be a decent SS at this level, and the cost is ABs for 2 of Theriot, Fontenot or DeRosa...meh.

 

Ball, Strike (looking), Ball, M DeRosa homered to left center, D Lee and C Floyd scored

 

In your face!

 

 

 

 

 

:D

[TheDude]

I don't think Ronny is going to get chance at everyday play on this team until Fontenot comes down to earth. And even then, Ronny would have to battle him for the spot.

 

I see no reason at all that DeRosa shouldn't be locked into 2nd or RF platoon at 150 games this year. He is on pace to match that .350/.800 OBP/OPS from last year and he is 3rd on the team in RBI production.

[SouthSideRyan]

And followed by an absolute bomb by Fontenot. Mike Fontenot is not gonna hit 400 all year, but there's no reason to take ABs away from him while he is.

[Tracer Bullet]

I'd call him up. I like the idea of Cedeno and Fontenot up the middle with DeRosa playing spot duty. I'm just not confident DeRosa can continue putting up starter-worthy #s, I guess.

 

Even if you aren't confident, I think you have to keep giving DeRosa a shot. He's cooled off, but he's still getting on base.

 

Yes he is and I'm never one to abandon a good source of OBP. But I'd like to see if Cedeno can actually play the SS position at the ML level and not be a total 0 with the bat. And Fontenot has played well enough to get a long look at 2B. But I guess I don't really care which of those two (Fontenot and DeRosa) gets the starts - I'm less concerned about finding a decent 2B than SS.

 

The only point I'd make about DeRosa's OBP is he's hitting in front of guys like Pagan, Hill, Bowen, Pie and the pitcher in most of his ABs. I'm not terribly surprised that he's finding it pretty easy to patiently wait for a decent pitch and walk if he doesn't get one. His AVG is still solid at .275 and it's not like he has a huge walk total, but it's not a huge leap of faith to think either Theriot or Fontenot can match that OBP at 2B.

 

And, I guess I'd like some pop at the 5/6 spot where he's been hitting. While his OBP has held pretty firm in the .340-.360 range most of the year, his SLG has been in a slow steady decline since the end of April. It's not like he has no power at all, but his XBH appear to fewer and farther between as the season goes on (he has 4 total in June: 3 doubles, 1 HR). He's a fine player and his overall #s still look pretty good, but I don't think he's a guy we have to have in the lineup. If Fontenot can basically match the .350 OBP and hit in the 2 spot, I'd call up Cedeno just to see if we can get more than a .600 OPS out of the SS position without trading for one.

 

Edit to add: I'm in no way saying Cedeno is that source of pop. If Lee, ARam and Floyd hit 3, 4, 5, maybe DeRosa is the only source of any power and has to hit 6th. Again, I'm not that concerned about who plays 2B this year - I don't see that choice impacting our win total a great deal. But if we can give Cedeno 3 months to see if he can be a decent SS at this level, and the cost is ABs for 2 of Theriot, Fontenot or DeRosa...meh.

 

Ball, Strike (looking), Ball, M DeRosa homered to left center, D Lee and C Floyd scored

 

In your face!

 

 

 

 

 

:D

 

That's why I posted a few minutes ago - DeRosa must have read my post before the game and got pissed.

 

Although, Fontenot had a HR of his own today, so he's not that far behind in the power department...

[CubsWin]

And followed by an absolute bomb by Fontenot. Mike Fontenot is not gonna hit 400 all year, but there's no reason to take ABs away from him while he is.

I think this is exactly right. Fontenot's play should be the deciding factor.

 

I'm basically with Goony on this. We've seen fast starts from Theriot and others before only to be followed by a pretty long and corrective slump. That may never come for Fontenot, but if it does, and it likely will, if Cedeno is still tearing up AAA, he should be called up.

 

Until such time, Cedeno should remain in AAA. He has only been raking at this level for 67 ABs, so he could use more time to maintain a level of consistency.