Jocketty to the Cubs???

[Mizzou]

Can someone please tell me why Walt Jocketty is a great GM?

[BigbadB]

Can someone please tell me why Walt Jocketty is a great GM?

 

Looking up and down the Cardinals roster and their minor league system, I would steer clear of this guy. Sure, he lucked into a World Series Championship this year, but he most certainly didn't build a dynasty.

 

He's better than Hendry, but that ain't sayin' much.

[The Voice of Reason]

Can someone please tell me why Walt Jocketty is a great GM?

 

In the last 11 years the Cardinals have won seven divison titles, two NL pennants and a World Series.

 

In the last 11 years the Cubs have won one division title (by one game) and one wild card.

[jersey cubs fan]

Can someone please tell me why Walt Jocketty is a great GM?

 

In the last 11 years the Cardinals have won seven divison titles, two NL pennants and a World Series.

 

In the last 11 years the Cubs have won one division title (by one game) and one wild card.

 

But did he trade for DLee and Ramirez?

[CardsFanInChiTown]

Can someone please tell me why Walt Jocketty is a great GM?

 

In the last 11 years the Cardinals have won seven divison titles, two NL pennants and a World Series.

 

In the last 11 years the Cubs have won one division title (by one game) and one wild card.

 

 

Not to mention the 2nd best record in baseball behind the Yankees. Jocketty has had great success wherever he's gone.

 

 

And FWIW Williams is underrated GM by many SABR folks.

[CardsFanInChiTown]

Can someone please tell me why Walt Jocketty is a great GM?

 

Looking up and down the Cardinals roster and their minor league system, I would steer clear of this guy. Sure, he lucked into a World Series Championship this year, but he most certainly didn't build a dynasty.

 

He's better than Hendry, but that ain't sayin' much.

 

 

Pretty close to a dynasty unless WS rings is your only criteria.

[cubweiser03]

Can someone please tell me why Walt Jocketty is a great GM?

 

Looking up and down the Cardinals roster and their minor league system, I would steer clear of this guy. Sure, he lucked into a World Series Championship this year, but he most certainly didn't build a dynasty.

 

He's better than Hendry, but that ain't sayin' much.

 

 

Pretty close to a dynasty unless WS rings is your only criteria.

 

That criteria is only reserved for Yankee fans.

For Cub fans winning 5 games in a row would constitute a dynasty right now.

[jersey cubs fan]

Can someone please tell me why Walt Jocketty is a great GM?

 

Looking up and down the Cardinals roster and their minor league system, I would steer clear of this guy. Sure, he lucked into a World Series Championship this year, but he most certainly didn't build a dynasty.

 

He's better than Hendry, but that ain't sayin' much.

 

 

Pretty close to a dynasty unless WS rings is your only criteria.

 

I wouldn't say anywhere close to a dynasty. Rings are the most important category if you're talking dynasty. 1 doesn't cut it. The only exception is what Atlanta did with their incredible run and 1 ring.

[indifferent]

I can understand how WJ's star has dulled this year, but I don't think it's fair to judge him in arguably his worst year as a GM. Could he have been a little blindsided by the market changing and free agency depth taking a dive, possibly. I think he fell victim to the WS glow as a lot of GMs tend to do following WS wins (with the exception of Williams).

 

His record as a GM has already been pointed out, but he also has always been predisposed to a stars and scrubs lineup. He just didn't factor in the degree of decline with Rolen and Edmonds and picked the wrong scrubs this year. There's been a lot of fun poked at the Suppan's, William's, and Marquis' on the Cards, but those rotations (primarily 04 and 05) sported low ERAs and the Cards have been near the top for least no. of starters used annually.

 

Regardless of the minutiae, his track record speaks for itself.

[indifferent]

Can someone please tell me why Walt Jocketty is a great GM?

 

Looking up and down the Cardinals roster and their minor league system, I would steer clear of this guy. Sure, he lucked into a World Series Championship this year, but he most certainly didn't build a dynasty.

 

He's better than Hendry, but that ain't sayin' much.

 

 

Pretty close to a dynasty unless WS rings is your only criteria.

 

I wouldn't say anywhere close to a dynasty. Rings are the most important category if you're talking dynasty. 1 doesn't cut it. The only exception is what Atlanta did with their incredible run and 1 ring.

 

By this definition, who would qualify as a good GM, only Schuerholz? I don't think CFICT's arguing WJ created a dynasty, just that his tenure has also been better than "most definitely didn't create a dynasty" as Big Bad B states.

[CardsFanInChiTown]

Can someone please tell me why Walt Jocketty is a great GM?

 

Looking up and down the Cardinals roster and their minor league system, I would steer clear of this guy. Sure, he lucked into a World Series Championship this year, but he most certainly didn't build a dynasty.

 

He's better than Hendry, but that ain't sayin' much.

 

 

Pretty close to a dynasty unless WS rings is your only criteria.

 

I wouldn't say anywhere close to a dynasty. Rings are the most important category if you're talking dynasty. 1 doesn't cut it. The only exception is what Atlanta did with their incredible run and 1 ring.

 

 

I would consider Atlanta's run a dynasty however I understand if people feel differently.

[jersey cubs fan]

By this definition, who would qualify as a good GM, only Schuerholz? I don't think CFICT's arguing WJ created a dynasty, just that his tenure has also been better than "most definitely didn't create a dynasty" as Big Bad B states.

 

Where did I say he wasn't good. I refuted the claim that he built a dynasty.

[jersey cubs fan]

I wouldn't say anywhere close to a dynasty. Rings are the most important category if you're talking dynasty. 1 doesn't cut it. The only exception is what Atlanta did with their incredible run and 1 ring.

 

 

I would consider Atlanta's run a dynasty however I understand if people feel differently.

 

That's why I called them an exception. If it was a 5-6 year run with 1 ring they aren't, but that run was unprecedented and tremendous.

[CardsFanInChiTown]

I wouldn't say anywhere close to a dynasty. Rings are the most important category if you're talking dynasty. 1 doesn't cut it. The only exception is what Atlanta did with their incredible run and 1 ring.

 

 

I would consider Atlanta's run a dynasty however I understand if people feel differently.

 

That's why I called them an exception. If it was a 5-6 year run with 1 ring they aren't, but that run was unprecedented and tremendous.

 

 

It's all semantics really, besides I didn't call the Cards a dynasty. The fact remains Jocketty has won a lot of games with the A's and Cards.

[SouthSideRyan]

If you don't think Walt Jocketty is a great GM, then the only reasonable explanation is that you think Tony LaRussa is the greatest manager in baseball history.

[wolf stansson]

Hooooly crap.

 

Of course, while talking about the scrap heap finds, some of you also ignore that the reason he goes for scrap heap guys is because he's done such a damn good job wrapping up his payroll into superstuds that are extremely reliable like Pujols, Carpenter, Rolen, and Edmonds. This year, that strategy hasn't worked because for the first time since they came into the league, Rolen and Edmonds are healthy and not producing.

 

It's impossible to accurately quantify the value of managers or general managers, because they aren't performing on the field, but to act like Jocketty wouldn't be a significant upgrade and the best available option is a joke.

 

My favorite part of the thread was this:

Can someone please tell me why Walt Jocketty is a great GM?

 

In the last 11 years the Cardinals have won seven divison titles, two NL pennants and a World Series.

 

In the last 11 years the Cubs have won one division title (by one game) and one wild card.

 

But did he trade for DLee and Ramirez?

 

I hope you're joking.

 

McGwire for TJ Matthews and such crap that I can't remember.

Edmonds for Kent Bottenfield and Adam Kennedy.

Rolen for Bud Smith and Placido Polanco.

Woody Williams trade, Chris Carpenter signing, Pujols draft, 7 div titles in 11 years, 5 nlcs appearances, 2 pennants, 1 world series, etc.

[SouthSideRyan]

He was joking.

[jersey cubs fan]

My favorite part was when somebody took that comment seriously.

 

 

The standard defense against Hendry blasting has been, "Yeah, but he got us Ramirez and Lee so he can't be a bad GM."

[SouthSideRyan]

And he drafted Vernon Wells.

 

No wait...

[TruffleShuffle]

i like that people who bash hendry - the primary reason being his track poor track record of overall success - are not interested in a guy who has been the GM of inarguably one of the five most successful franchises in baseball since 1996. If Jocketty became a "free agent" after this year, I'd sign him without thinking twice.

[The Voice of Reason]

i like that people who bash hendry - the primary reason being his track poor track record of overall success - are not interested in a guy who has been the GM of inarguably one of the five most successful franchises in baseball since 1996. If Jocketty became a "free agent" after this year, I'd sign him without thinking twice.

 

What he said^.

[RichHillIsABeast]

Hendry was two bits of luck from having a dynasty (Prior and Wood healthy).

 

WJ targets some really crap players, but his gold mines have all panned out. There's some real luck in that. It's not like Pujols was a top draft pick (402nd overall).

 

WJ is no genius. He's made a couple of good moves (so has Hendry), but he flat out lucked into his core player.

[CardsFanInChiTown]

WJ targets some really crap players, but his gold mines have all panned out. There's some real luck in that.

 

Not true, he's had a lot of player failures. Spivey? Ponson? Unlike Hendry he's much more willing to experiment with several players at a position instead of paying top dollar for medicore talent.

[RichHillIsABeast]

WJ targets some really crap players, but his gold mines have all panned out. There's some real luck in that.

 

Not true, he's had a lot of player failures. Spivey? Ponson? Unlike Hendry he's much more willing to experiment with several players at a position instead of paying top dollar for medicore talent.

 

I was exaggerating when I said "all," but you can't deny that WJ flat out lucked into maybe the best hitter of this generation. It's pretty easy to have cash to throw around with a Pujols coming up from your system.

 

I love some of his deals, don't get me wrong. Flat out steals, but it's not like Hendry hasn't pulled those off.

 

I just don't see the vast difference in Hendry/WJ. They both target the types of players I absolutely loathe. Every once in a while they luck into some good moves or are handed premium talent (Prior, Wood, Pujols) by other people in the organization. Whether or not that talent stays healthy is a big factor in a team's success. Walt has had that. Hendry hasn't.

[SouthSideRyan]

They target players you loathe??

 

I understand loathing Edmonds on a personal level, but how can you loathe his skillset?