Barrett vs. Rich Hill

[CubinNY]

I like your attitude JonnyRed. This team can play a lot better and when we do the Brewers will be in trouble! I do think MB should go though. His D gives up more runs than his O can make up.

 

got any numbers to support that ridiculous claim?

 

didn't think so. honestly though, i would love to see you list all the instances where barrett's d cost the cubs a run.

 

That's the beauty of "he doesn't call a good game"

 

Just blame everything that goes wrong with a pitcher on the catcher if you happen to not like him! The proof's in the pudding, look how bad he pitched!!

 

All that may be true, Barrett is still a terrible defensive catcher.

 

If he hits, I'm fine with him behind the plate. If he doesn't/isn't he's worse than usless.

 

My personal opinion is that defense at the catcher position is vastly overrated as long as it doesn't go too far to the extreme.

 

I tottaly disagree. Catcher is perhaps the only positon where defense matters. The catcher has to set the target for the pitcher, he has to be able to anticipate when the ball is going in the dirt and where. He has to have a strong throwing arm. A team can get away with a butcher at most other positions but not at catcher.

 

I don't really put much stock into game calling, b/c the pitcher or pitching coach is in charge of that. And CERA is a bunk stat. But Barrett sets up late, he hops around, someting moving the target, he has really bad footwork, sometimes stabbing at balls instead of blocking them with his chest protector, he releases the ball too high on throws to second and he doesn't go out to the pitcher's mound enough. Sometimes a pitcher just needs to slow things down a little.

 

Barrett's defense is just good enough that he still has a job as long as he hits. If the Cubs had a better offense they could get away with not having him on the team, but they can't (as long as he is hitting).

[tkenm356]

In the National League this year, Michael Barrett is.....

 

The Good:

 

1st in HR

T-3rd in RBI

5th in R

T-6th in H

4th in TB

T-4th in BB

4th in SLG

4th in OPS

 

 

The Bad:

10th in OBP

10th in AVG

His Defense as a whole

 

 

Now yeah, his defense sucks, but despite his low AVG and OBP, his offensive numbers, compared to catchers in the National League, are among the Top 5 in almost every category. While we will joke around saying that some of those stats are meaningless (and they are, in some cases), teams will still look at this. Barrett DOES have value as an offensive catcher.

 

If we could trade Barrett to get a position player who isn't a catcher who is putting up numbers that could match Barrett's, then we could stick in Blanco or Hill or whoever that can play the crap out of that position on D, and not be hurt by the loss of Barrett's bat.

 

Now maybe this spot of my post belongs in a Transactions thread, but regardless...

 

The way I see it the Cubs need either an everyday RF, SS, or pitching (it never hurts to have too much good pitching). Teams that have either A) Awful offensive catchers or B) No decent catchers in their farm system and could use a dose of offense from the catcher position with players we could use/somehow might have a chance to attain include:

 

Baltimore

- Hernandez on the DL, and he's hitting for a similar average with less production. Bako is their starter (BAKOOOOO). Only players I assume we'd be interested in are Tejada, Bedard, and maybe Markakis

 

Cincinnati

- David Ross is trash this year, and Javier Valentin isn't much better. Dunn is on the block (I still don't want to trade for him), and Griffey is rumored to be as well (would be awesome to have).

 

Colorado

- Iannetta and Torrealba for lack of a better word, stink offensively. They won't let go of Tulowitzki, but I recall hearing some Brad Hawpe trade rumors a while back but he'd be tough to get even if he is on the block (and he's the kind of player that would be just what the Cubs need). They also have Hirsh (who is awful this year) and Franklin Morales in the farm system (though I doubt they'd want to give them up)

 

Tampa Bay

- Navarro is probably one of the worst offenwive catchers in the game. The backup, Casanova, is doing well, but it's a 4 game sample size, and the other catcher, Josh Paul is on the 60-day DLthe Rays don't have a top catching prospect in their system. Even though he'd probably cost a pitcher or two extra, Carl Crawford would be a nice fit in RF (or move Sori to RF and put Crawford in LF). Granted, the Ray have a ton of offense already, and don't neccesarily need Barrett's bat at the catcher position, sadly. However with Brendan Harris performing well, Ben Zobrist could be had for cheap. He's not performing that well in the minors right now (.255AVG) however he is still patient (.388OBP). Could be a project, and might not have to give up Barrett

 

Washington

- Schneider isn't exactly setting the world on fire, and they have no major catchers in their farm system. I remember a hot trade target this offseason was Ryan Church, but the Nationals were asking too much for him. Maybe Barrett would be enough?

 

Just some thoughts. Sorry for wasting time/getting off-topic. if I need to move this to a transactions thread, let me know. Now, 1... 2... 3... CRITICIZE!

[jaydee]

id rather have a good offensive catcher. put in some offensively useless catcher who is good on D and your basically conceding an extra out in the lineup. for the amount of whining about the cubs offense on here that would not be a good tihng

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

I like your attitude JonnyRed. This team can play a lot better and when we do the Brewers will be in trouble! I do think MB should go though. His D gives up more runs than his O can make up.

 

got any numbers to support that ridiculous claim?

 

didn't think so. honestly though, i would love to see you list all the instances where barrett's d cost the cubs a run.

 

Well, using one formula for Runs Created, Barrett has generated 26.1 runs for us. I don't know what the "average catcher" would have generated, but taking Blanco's numbers and extrapolating them upward to equal Barrett's playing time, you come up with 11.5 RC. Doing the same with Koyie Hill you get 2.4 RC. On the other side of the coin, I can think of 3 or 4 instances where Barrett's defense or bone headed base running contributed to a CUBS loss. Some will undoubtedly argue that there are more. I can't imagine that there are enough runs given up by Barrett to negate the extra offense he brings, in spite of his current slump.

 

Thank-you, Fred. That sums it up. Barrett may have cost the Cubs a run here or there, but I doubt he's cost anywhere near the 15 run difference between him and Blanco.

[CubColtPacer]

I like your attitude JonnyRed. This team can play a lot better and when we do the Brewers will be in trouble! I do think MB should go though. His D gives up more runs than his O can make up.

 

got any numbers to support that ridiculous claim?

 

didn't think so. honestly though, i would love to see you list all the instances where barrett's d cost the cubs a run.

 

Well, using one formula for Runs Created, Barrett has generated 26.1 runs for us. I don't know what the "average catcher" would have generated, but taking Blanco's numbers and extrapolating them upward to equal Barrett's playing time, you come up with 11.5 RC. Doing the same with Koyie Hill you get 2.4 RC. On the other side of the coin, I can think of 3 or 4 instances where Barrett's defense or bone headed base running contributed to a CUBS loss. Some will undoubtedly argue that there are more. I can't imagine that there are enough runs given up by Barrett to negate the extra offense he brings, in spite of his current slump.

 

Thank-you, Fred. That sums it up. Barrett may have cost the Cubs a run here or there, but I doubt he's cost anywhere near the 15 run difference between him and Blanco.

 

I agree that Barrett probably still outdoes Blanco, but I think Blanco's extrapolated numbers skew the numbers a little bit against him. He has only had 36 AB's, and I don't think it's reasonable that he'd stay at a .481 OPS if he got more AB's and a better sample size. He's had 8 full time seasons, and his worst one was a .524, with his second worst at .602. So he'd still be horrible at the plate, but he would have to make up a few less runs on Barrett if he was at .602 rather than .481, and I don't think .602 is optimistic at all (his last 3 years have been .628, .678, and .723).

[moorecg]

"Marshall worked in concert with backup catcher Koyie Hill. With Hill behind the plate since his promotion from the minor leagues June 1, the Cubs are 4-1. Hill credited Marshall’s stuff for Wednesday’s win."

 

 

From Bruce's article today...I wonder if this is/can/should be read as a comment on Barrett.

[jersey cubs fan]

I agree that Barrett probably still outdoes Blanco, but I think Blanco's extrapolated numbers skew the numbers a little bit against him. He has only had 36 AB's, and I don't think it's reasonable that he'd stay at a .481 OPS if he got more AB's and a better sample size. He's had 8 full time seasons, and his worst one was a .524, with his second worst at .602. So he'd still be horrible at the plate, but he would have to make up a few less runs on Barrett if he was at .602 rather than .481, and I don't think .602 is optimistic at all (his last 3 years have been .628, .678, and .723).

 

Blanco is also 36 years old. He's logged a good amount of time behind the plate, appears to be a horrible athlete and is not in good shape. Add in the fact that he's already banged up and it may be a stretch to assume more playing time would mean better numbers. I don't think there's a long list of crappy catchers that maintained their numbers through their mid 30's.

[Coach C]

Wonder if it'd be a good idea to trade him to a AL team. MB would be a good spot for a DH hitter.

 

I wonder if his numbers this year are low due to the milage that he's been putting in as a catcher.

[SouthSideRyan]

Barrett doesn't have the usual miles on him since he was drafted as a SS. It's why heading into this year I was okayish with him signing a 3 year extension or so.