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SORIANO HAS ARRIVED!

C.C.

By C.C.,
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CubColtPacer South Bend Cubs

CubColtPacer

Community Moderator
Posted
Posted
Too bad they could have had him for 100 million

 

There were at least a couple other teams that were offering 100 million, and Carlos Lee, who most teams saw as an inferior player, signed for 6 years, 100 million, and was actually offered a 6 year, 112 million contract by somebody. Soriano was not going to sign for less than 120 million.

Rob Knoxville Smokies

Rob

Old-Timey Member
Posted
Posted
Worth every cent of the 136 million.

 

He currently sports a .920 OPS (even after the 2 dingers tonight) and his previous high was .911 and his career OPS is .840. Basically, that means he's likely to regress (esp. over the last few years of the 8 year contract)... and anything less than a 1.000 OPS for 136 mil isn't worth it. So, no, he's not likely to be worth every cent (and wouldn't be even if he kept this same level of production up over the next 8 years)

Tracer Bullet Knoxville Smokies

Tracer Bullet

Old-Timey Member
Posted
Posted
He just hit his 3rd HR tonight. Bow down haters!

 

Good thing he's leading off. Wouldn't want to waste any of those HRs by having guys on in front of him. By putting Izturis and the P right in front of him, we've virtually guaranteed that 90% of the HRs he hits will be solo shots.

 

Well done, Cubs. Well done.

Transmogrified Tiger All-Star

Transmogrified Tiger

Community Moderator
Posted
Posted
He just hit his 3rd HR tonight. Bow down haters!

 

Good thing he's leading off. Wouldn't want to waste any of those HRs by having guys on in front of him. By putting Izturis and the P right in front of him, we've virtually guaranteed that 90% of the HRs he hits will be solo shots.

 

Well done, Cubs. Well done.

 

Better solo HR than no HR at all.

C.C. Chicago Cubs

C.C.

Old-Timey Member
Posted
  • Author
Posted
He just hit his 3rd HR tonight. Bow down haters!

 

Good thing he's leading off. Wouldn't want to waste any of those HRs by having guys on in front of him. By putting Izturis and the P right in front of him, we've virtually guaranteed that 90% of the HRs he hits will be solo shots.

 

Well done, Cubs. Well done.

 

It's still runs, no?

Wilson A2000 South Bend Cubs

Wilson A2000

Old-Timey Member
Posted
Posted
Worth every cent of the 136 million.

 

He currently sports a .920 OPS (even after the 2 dingers tonight) and his previous high was .911 and his career OPS is .840. Basically, that means he's likely to regress (esp. over the last few years of the 8 year contract)... and anything less than a 1.000 OPS for 136 mil isn't worth it. So, no, he's not likely to be worth every cent (and wouldn't be even if he kept this same level of production up over the next 8 years)

 

While he won't be able to continually progress, whose to say that he won't be able to get better this year and for a few years to come.

 

The Cubs still overpaid by abut 20 million for him.

Rob Knoxville Smokies

Rob

Old-Timey Member
Posted
Posted
Worth every cent of the 136 million.

 

He currently sports a .920 OPS (even after the 2 dingers tonight) and his previous high was .911 and his career OPS is .840. Basically, that means he's likely to regress (esp. over the last few years of the 8 year contract)... and anything less than a 1.000 OPS for 136 mil isn't worth it. So, no, he's not likely to be worth every cent (and wouldn't be even if he kept this same level of production up over the next 8 years)

 

While he won't be able to continually progress, whose to say that he won't be able to get better this year and for a few years to come.

 

The Cubs still overpaid by abut 20 million for him.

 

Nothing says he can't, but he's been around the league long enough that his career numbers are certainly worth entertaining. Could he establish a new baseline level of performance at 30? Sure, but it's not very likely.

Sammy Sofa GOAT

Sammy Sofa

Old-Timey Member
Posted
Posted
He just hit his 3rd HR tonight. Bow down haters!

 

Good thing he's leading off. Wouldn't want to waste any of those HRs by having guys on in front of him. By putting Izturis and the P right in front of him, we've virtually guaranteed that 90% of the HRs he hits will be solo shots.

 

Well done, Cubs. Well done.

 

Yes, because only the Cubs have realized that Soriano hits best out of the leadoff spot. Those stupid, stupid Cubs.

Tracer Bullet Knoxville Smokies

Tracer Bullet

Old-Timey Member
Posted
Posted
He just hit his 3rd HR tonight. Bow down haters!

 

Good thing he's leading off. Wouldn't want to waste any of those HRs by having guys on in front of him. By putting Izturis and the P right in front of him, we've virtually guaranteed that 90% of the HRs he hits will be solo shots.

 

Well done, Cubs. Well done.

 

Yes, because only the Cubs have realized that Soriano hits best out of the leadoff spot. Those stupid, stupid Cubs.

 

I'm sorry, but I don't believe that where he hits in the lineup makes a damn bit of difference. Of course he wants to lead off, he loves to swing the bat. He gets more chance to do so if he hits first. But would he suddenly be terrible hitting 3rd or 5th? I don't believe it.

 

And frankly, there's no stats that "prove" in any real sense, that his spot in the lineup effects his performance. He had a great year last year hitting 1st. Would he have had the same production in his walk year hitting 3rd or 5th? I think so. It amazes me how many people say "he hits better in the leadoff spot" as if his position in the lineup determined the results of his ABs more than all the other factors at play.

Tracer Bullet Knoxville Smokies

Tracer Bullet

Old-Timey Member
Posted
Posted
He just hit his 3rd HR tonight. Bow down haters!

 

Good thing he's leading off. Wouldn't want to waste any of those HRs by having guys on in front of him. By putting Izturis and the P right in front of him, we've virtually guaranteed that 90% of the HRs he hits will be solo shots.

 

Well done, Cubs. Well done.

 

Better solo HR than no HR at all.

 

And better 2- or 3-run HR than solo.

Jazz ACL Cubs

Jazz

Old-Timey Member
Posted
Posted
He just hit his 3rd HR tonight. Bow down haters!

 

Good thing he's leading off. Wouldn't want to waste any of those HRs by having guys on in front of him. By putting Izturis and the P right in front of him, we've virtually guaranteed that 90% of the HRs he hits will be solo shots.

 

Well done, Cubs. Well done.

 

Better solo HR than no HR at all.

 

And better 2- or 3-run HR than solo.

 

When will people get that Soriano is just a better hitter in the leadoff spot. The stats are there. Live with it.

Transmogrified Tiger All-Star

Transmogrified Tiger

Community Moderator
Posted
Posted
He just hit his 3rd HR tonight. Bow down haters!

 

Good thing he's leading off. Wouldn't want to waste any of those HRs by having guys on in front of him. By putting Izturis and the P right in front of him, we've virtually guaranteed that 90% of the HRs he hits will be solo shots.

 

Well done, Cubs. Well done.

 

Better solo HR than no HR at all.

 

And better 2- or 3-run HR than solo.

 

Missing the point. Soriano is significantly better in that spot in the order. Why, I don't know, but there's enough of a sample for it not to be a fluke. You take him out of that spot and the solo HR turn into flyouts(intentional oversimplification).

Rob Knoxville Smokies

Rob

Old-Timey Member
Posted
Posted
He just hit his 3rd HR tonight. Bow down haters!

 

Good thing he's leading off. Wouldn't want to waste any of those HRs by having guys on in front of him. By putting Izturis and the P right in front of him, we've virtually guaranteed that 90% of the HRs he hits will be solo shots.

 

Well done, Cubs. Well done.

 

Yes, because only the Cubs have realized that Soriano hits best out of the leadoff spot. Those stupid, stupid Cubs.

 

I'm sorry, but I don't believe that where he hits in the lineup makes a damn bit of difference. Of course he wants to lead off, he loves to swing the bat. He gets more chance to do so if he hits first. But would he suddenly be terrible hitting 3rd or 5th? I don't believe it.

 

And frankly, there's no stats that "prove" in any real sense, that his spot in the lineup effects his performance. He had a great year last year hitting 1st. Would he have had the same production in his walk year hitting 3rd or 5th? I think so. It amazes me how many people say "he hits better in the leadoff spot" as if his position in the lineup determined the results of his ABs more than all the other factors at play.

 

If Soriano believes he can't his as well out of the leadoff spot, it's true. There's nothing about the leadoff spot itself that makes people hit better or worse, but if Soriano fools himself into thinking he can't hit anywhere else, we're better leaving him there.

Transmogrified Tiger All-Star

Transmogrified Tiger

Community Moderator
Posted
Posted
If Soriano believes he can't his as well out of the leadoff spot, it's true. There's nothing about the leadoff spot itself that makes people hit better or worse, but if Soriano fools himself into thinking he can't hit anywhere else, we're better leaving him there.

 

Right, and it goes beyond just last year too. There's a significant difference in every year of his career but one, IIRC.

Jon Chicago Cubs

Jon

Old-Timey Member
Posted
Posted (edited)
He just hit his 3rd HR tonight. Bow down haters!

 

Good thing he's leading off. Wouldn't want to waste any of those HRs by having guys on in front of him. By putting Izturis and the P right in front of him, we've virtually guaranteed that 90% of the HRs he hits will be solo shots.

 

Well done, Cubs. Well done.

 

Better solo HR than no HR at all.

 

And better 2- or 3-run HR than solo.

 

Missing the point. Soriano is significantly better in that spot in the order. Why, I don't know, but there's enough of a sample for it not to be a fluke. You take him out of that spot and the solo HR turn into flyouts(intentional oversimplification).

The sample might be there, but I'm certainly not convinced it isn't just a coincidence. I'm too lazy to find his 2001 (he wasn't very good, anyways) splits, but here's what he's done:

 

2002 (NYY)

Overall - .300/.332/.547/.879

Batting #1 (679/696 ABs) - .296/.329/.542/.871

 

2003 (NYY)

Overall - .290/.338/.525/.863

Batting #1 (627/682 ABs) - .293/.342/.533/.875

Batting #3 (43/682 ABs) - .233/.244/.465/.709

 

2004 (TEX)

Overall - .280/.324/.484/.808

Batting #1 (67/608 ABs) - .269/.310/.597/.907

Batting #3 (485/608 ABs) - .280/.328/.476/.804

Batting #5 (47/608 ABs) - .277/.300/.404/.704

 

2005 (TEX)

Overall - .268/.309/.512/.821

Batting #1 (98/637 ABs) - .276/.301/.480/.781

Batting #4 (37/637 ABs) - .216/.250/.432/.682

Batting #5 (497/637 ABs) - .270/.315/.523/.838

 

2006 (WAS)

Overall - .277/.351/.560/.911

Batting #1 (541/647 ABs) - .294/.368/.588/.956

Batting #3 (72/647 ABs) - .153/.235/.333/.568

Batting #5 (29/647 ABs) - .310/.375/.690/1.065

 

 

Soriano hit leadoff exclusively in 2002 and 2003. When he moved to Texas, he really didn't see much time at the top of the order. After his move to Washington, he was back to primarily hitting leadoff.

 

He's never had more than two consecutive good seasons. And you can't look within any single season because he always primarily hit in one position and as a result, the sample size is just too small.

 

It's not like he had 300 ABs hitting leadoff and 300 ABs in the 5th spot each and every season to really provide a decent sample. I think it's much easier and safer to come to the conclusion that he just wasn't a great hitter when he was in Texas.

Edited by Jon
Cubfanintheknow First Round Pick

Cubfanintheknow

Old-Timey Member
Posted
Posted
He just hit his 3rd HR tonight. Bow down haters!

 

Good thing he's leading off. Wouldn't want to waste any of those HRs by having guys on in front of him. By putting Izturis and the P right in front of him, we've virtually guaranteed that 90% of the HRs he hits will be solo shots.

 

Well done, Cubs. Well done.

 

Better solo HR than no HR at all.

 

And better 2- or 3-run HR than solo.

 

Soriano probably doesn't get those fat pitches with runners on base.

 

Amazing that a guy hits three home runs and people still aren't happy. I'm not expecting everyone to start doing cartwheels and changing their first name to Alfonso, but geez... take a break from wetting on the charcoals for an evening, would ya?

Jon Chicago Cubs

Jon

Old-Timey Member
Posted
Posted

Some more stats:

 

 

2002

Overall - .300/.332/.547/.879

Leading off an inning (264 ABs)- .277/.318/.500/.818

 

2003

Overall - .290/.338/.525/.863

Leading off an inning (256 ABs) - .340/.379/.680/1.059

 

2004

Overall - .280/.324/.484/.808

Leading off an inning (134 ABs) - .231/.264/.425/.689

 

2005

Overall - .268/.309/.512/.821

Leading off an inning (161 ABs) - .360/.401/.689/1.090

 

2006

Overall - .277/.351/.560/.911

Leading off an inning (256 ABs) - .297/.343/.555/.898

 

 

 

Again, you really can't draw that much from these numbers, and not just because of the limited sample size. In his three good seasons, his OPS leading off compared to his overall numbers were -.061, +.196, and -.013. In his two average (or however you want to define them), they were -.119 and +.269.

 

Kind of all over the place there.

NewUserName Myrtle Beach Pelicans

NewUserName

Verified Member
Posted
Posted
Worth every cent of the 136 million.

 

 

When he is putting up a +850 ops in 8 years I will agree with this statement. Tufffy Rhodes hit 3 hr in a game once, I wouldnt pay him $136.

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