Scouts. Inc. - Cobs had worst 2002 draft in MLB

[Fanzones trumpet]

This is one draft where injuries did much more damage than poor player development, imo.

 

I agree with that assessment given the promise Hagerty, Blasko and (to a lesser extent) Jones showed before their injuries, but it still hurts a lot to see a Brownlie taken a couple of spots ahead of Jeff Francouer and 6 guys taken ahead of Brian McCann. Where would the Cubs be now (and in the forseeable future) with those two guys in the lineup?. I think the 2002 draft ultimately shows the fallacy in the MacPhail/Hendry draft strategy of favoring pitchers at the expense of position players in the belief that excess pitching can always be used to acquire good position players. The strategy is flawed given the high volume of injuries to young pitchers. And even if you eventually get into position to use young piching in a trade, there's no guarantee that the player you acquire will benefit your ballclub. See Juan Pierre.

[Derwood]

this is why I'm fine with the "no trading draft picks" rule in the MLB. The draft is such a crap shoot, that high draft picks are rarely guaranteed. For every Chipper Jones, Alex Rodriguez and Ken Griffey Jr. you have a Paul Wilson, Ben McDonald and Brien Taylor

[Transmogrified Tiger]

this is why I'm fine with the "no trading draft picks" rule in the MLB. The draft is such a crap shoot, that high draft picks are rarely guaranteed. For every Chipper Jones, Alex Rodriguez and Ken Griffey Jr. you have a Paul Wilson, Ben McDonald and Brien Taylor

 

Why would that make you opposed to trading picks? I would think that would be an argument for trading them, since bad teams could get better assets for a pick that has a strong likelihood of being worth significantly less than what they would receive.

[Derwood]

this is why I'm fine with the "no trading draft picks" rule in the MLB. The draft is such a crap shoot, that high draft picks are rarely guaranteed. For every Chipper Jones, Alex Rodriguez and Ken Griffey Jr. you have a Paul Wilson, Ben McDonald and Brien Taylor

 

Why would that make you opposed to trading picks? I would think that would be an argument for trading them, since bad teams could get better assets for a pick that has a strong likelihood of being worth significantly less than what they would receive.

 

i'm not opposed to it, i'm just not clamoring for it. The value of a draft pick in the MLB vs. the NBA is exponential.

[muntjack]

I spent last night perusing this:

http://www.baseball-reference.com/draft/

 

We certainly aren't the only ones to botch a draft.

 

Also, take a look at the list of pitchers taken #1 overall and compare to those taken #2.

 

#1's: Bryan Bullington, Matt Anderson, Kris Benson, Paul Wilson, Brien Taylor, Ben McDonald, Andy Benes

 

#2's: Justin Verlander, Mark Prior, Adam Johnson, Josh Beckett, Mark Mulder, Darren Dreifort, Paul Shuey, Greg Swindell

[TruffleShuffle]

And here's an interesting story on Matt Clanton: http://cubs.scout.com/2/527823.html

 

way to do your homework, Cubs :roll:

[KingKongvs.Godzilla]

And here's an interesting story on Matt Clanton: http://cubs.scout.com/2/527823.html

 

way to do your homework, Cubs :roll:

 

“It was honestly the darkest point in my life,” Clanton says, his voice filled with emotion, cracking in spots. “Jim Hendry once quoted to me, ‘This [organization] is not a democracy. It is a dictatorship. You shut the f--k up.’

 

Not only is this f*cked up, but could anyone else picture Hendry spitting food out of his mouth while he says this?

[NCCubFan]

And here's an interesting story on Matt Clanton: http://cubs.scout.com/2/527823.html

 

way to do your homework, Cubs :roll:

 

“It was honestly the darkest point in my life,” Clanton says, his voice filled with emotion, cracking in spots. “Jim Hendry once quoted to me, ‘This [organization] is not a democracy. It is a dictatorship. You shut the f--k up.’

 

Not only is this f*cked up, but could anyone else picture Hendry spitting food out of his mouth while he says this?

I'm far from a Hendry fan, but I can't believe he said that. I think Clanton's high school incident erases any credibility his story may have otherwise had.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

And here's an interesting story on Matt Clanton: http://cubs.scout.com/2/527823.html

 

way to do your homework, Cubs :roll:

 

“It was honestly the darkest point in my life,” Clanton says, his voice filled with emotion, cracking in spots. “Jim Hendry once quoted to me, ‘This [organization] is not a democracy. It is a dictatorship. You shut the f--k up.’

 

Not only is this f*cked up, but could anyone else picture Hendry spitting food out of his mouth while he says this?

 

I'm not sure that one can so easily trust Clanton's version of events.

[Outshined_One]

And here's an interesting story on Matt Clanton: http://cubs.scout.com/2/527823.html

 

way to do your homework, Cubs :roll:

 

“It was honestly the darkest point in my life,” Clanton says, his voice filled with emotion, cracking in spots. “Jim Hendry once quoted to me, ‘This [organization] is not a democracy. It is a dictatorship. You shut the f--k up.’

 

Not only is this f*cked up, but could anyone else picture Hendry spitting food out of his mouth while he says this?

 

Yeah, I remember reading that story when it first came out. I was convinced this guy was full of it then and I have yet to change my mind. The guy's got bats in the belfry.

 

Well, if pitching prospects are basically drafted to get injured, maybe the Cubs should focus on positional prospects. Much less risk involved. Plus, the Cubs have plenty of money to sign free agents to plug in pitching holes. If not, then the organization must trade more of the pitchers before they get hurt.

 

See, I'm of the opposite mind. The Cubs have done a phenomenal job of effectively drafting and coaching pitchers through the minors over the past few years, and yet their record with positional prospects has been nothing short of abysmal.

 

Stop and think about the number of products of the Cubs' farm system are pitching in the major leagues now. Cripes, just stop and look at how many former Cubs prospects are currently pitching for the Marlins alone; it's practically insane. The Cubs have an excellent track record when it comes to drafting pitchers, the 2002 draft aside. Moreover, enough of these guys manage to make it to the majors and have varying levels of success to make me think this team is doing something right.

 

But when it comes to positional prospects...ugh. I have high hopes for guys like Felix Pie and Eric Patterson, but history has not been on this team's side when it comes to drafting and developing position players.

 

Moreover, stop and look at this team's farm system. From my standpoint, this is a really weak year down on the farm talent-wise (until the draft goes down, at least). Looking at each team's roster, I'd say way more pitchers have a better chance of making it to the majors than position players. When you get past Pie, Patterson, Fox, and Colvin...it gets ugly. The pitching situation is also bleak, but much of their potential gives me higher hopes than the position players.

[jyoung55]

I'm hoping that Pie will be the exception to O_O's list since he wasn't drafted.

[jersey cubs fan]

See, I'm of the opposite mind. The Cubs have done a phenomenal job of effectively drafting and coaching pitchers through the minors over the past few years, and yet their record with positional prospects has been nothing short of abysmal.

 

Stop and think about the number of products of the Cubs' farm system are pitching in the major leagues now. Cripes, just stop and look at how many former Cubs prospects are currently pitching for the Marlins alone; it's practically insane. The Cubs have an excellent track record when it comes to drafting pitchers, the 2002 draft aside. Moreover, enough of these guys manage to make it to the majors and have varying levels of success to make me think this team is doing something right.

 

But when it comes to positional prospects...ugh.

 

That's the problem. They spent a decade building the organization around the theory of stockpiling arms and then trading the surplus for bats when needed. And it's failed them miserably. They need to think of a way to start drafting and developing their own bats, and stop thinking pitching is the only thing.

[jjgman21]

And here's an interesting story on Matt Clanton: http://cubs.scout.com/2/527823.html

 

way to do your homework, Cubs :roll:

 

“It was honestly the darkest point in my life,” Clanton says, his voice filled with emotion, cracking in spots. “Jim Hendry once quoted to me, ‘This [organization] is not a democracy. It is a dictatorship. You shut the f--k up.’

 

Not only is this f*cked up, but could anyone else picture Hendry spitting food out of his mouth while he says this?

 

I'm not sure that one can so easily trust Clanton's version of events.

 

even if this version is correct, I don't know why someone would have a problem with it. it should be in large part a dictatorship.

[Exile on Waveland]

See, I'm of the opposite mind. The Cubs have done a phenomenal job of effectively drafting and coaching pitchers through the minors over the past few years, and yet their record with positional prospects has been nothing short of abysmal.

 

Stop and think about the number of products of the Cubs' farm system are pitching in the major leagues now. Cripes, just stop and look at how many former Cubs prospects are currently pitching for the Marlins alone; it's practically insane. The Cubs have an excellent track record when it comes to drafting pitchers, the 2002 draft aside. Moreover, enough of these guys manage to make it to the majors and have varying levels of success to make me think this team is doing something right.

 

But when it comes to positional prospects...ugh.

 

That's the problem. They spent a decade building the organization around the theory of stockpiling arms and then trading the surplus for bats when needed. And it's failed them miserably. They need to think of a way to start drafting and developing their own bats, and stop thinking pitching is the only thing.

 

I was about to respond with something similar to this.

 

The theory of stockpiling young pitchers (the most valuable baseball asset) is a sound one, I believe. However, the Cubs haven't kept them healthy nor have they traded many at their peak value. And, when they have, they got crap (see Pierre, Juan) in return. So, maybe, my problem isn't the theory itself, but the organization applying the theory.

 

I do agree they've done a good job developing young arms, 2002 draft class notwithstanding, but you also must develop young positional players.

[Guest]

You're going to run into injuries when you're developing young power arms and it appears the Cubs are doing a good job of not wearing out the arms in the minors (obviously quite the opposite once Dusty or Kimm or... got their hands on them in the big leagues). I have to think there's a fundamental problem in the system with development of hitters in the minors (something that possibly goes beyond the plate discipline issues that most every hitter that came up through this system has displayed).

[Exile on Waveland]

I'd like to preface this by saying I think it's quite intuitive that an organization should draft the best players and build with both pitching and positional prospects. You need both to win.

 

However, as I pondered this more, I believe the stockpiling pitching to trade or keep theory is counterintuitive for a big-market, high-payroll team like the Cubs.

 

1. A low budget team is likely to be forced into making sacrifices. This should never be the case for a team spending $100 million or so, or more, annually in player salaries. The Cubs should, and can, afford to field a team (and minor league system) that is both rich in pitching and hitting.

 

2. Pitching talent is in the most demand, while also having the least supply. Therefore, pitching is the most expensive asset currently in baseball. However, to be competitive, pitching is possibly the most important factor. Lower budget teams aren't able to sign big name pitchers in free agency, or at least not very often.

 

To me, perhaps the best way to stay competitive with a lower payroll is by developing pitchers and filling your staff with inexpensive, rookie contract players. With the volatility of young arms, drafting pitchers in bulk may be the best way to achieve this end. Plus, demand being what it is, you can always trade young pitchers for hitters.

 

The Cubs, on the other hand, can (and do) afford to pay big free agent contracts to pitchers (whether they spend the money wisely is another issue). They don't necessarily need rookie contract pitchers. Certainly, every team needs some cheap, productive players scattered about the roster like Murton, Hill, Guzman, Pie, etc. A high revenue team just doesn't necessarily need those players to be on its pitching staff. If the minor league system consistently supplied positional players to the parent club, then that club could focus on a few key positional players via trades or free agency, and still have money left over for pitchers.

 

 

 

Again, I think the best way to draft is to spread your resources (prospects) around. Draft and develop pitching and positional prospects. I'm not advocating only drafting positional prospects or only acquiring pitchers via free agency. The Cubs should draft and develop for all facets of the game. But, if you're the Cubs and you have to focus on one, I'd choose hitters. They are more predictable and less prone to injury.

[Soul]

And here's an interesting story on Matt Clanton: http://cubs.scout.com/2/527823.html

 

way to do your homework, Cubs :roll:

 

“It was honestly the darkest point in my life,” Clanton says, his voice filled with emotion, cracking in spots. “Jim Hendry once quoted to me, ‘This [organization] is not a democracy. It is a dictatorship. You shut the f--k up.’

 

Not only is this f*cked up, but could anyone else picture Hendry spitting food out of his mouth while he says this?

 

I'm not sure that one can so easily trust Clanton's version of events.

 

even if this version is correct, I don't know why someone would have a problem with it. it should be in large part a dictatorship.

 

Believe it or not, I agree. It should be. I can see Hendry saying the first two sentences. I'll bet that last one, with Jim swearing, was added later, either in Clanton's mind or because he was upset.

 

Darkest days of your life? You're young, drafted by the Cubs, playing baseball every day instead of working like a dog like the rest of the world. That just seems a little ridiculous on the face of it.

[Monco]

Guess this explains why they were willing to sacrifice their 2nd - 4th round picks last year.

[Have a seat, Neifi]

FYI - Baseball America's Alan Mathews had this say to about our possible draft choice at #3:

 

Derek (Chi,IL): Any truth to the terrible Sean Doolittle to the Cubs at #3 rumors?

 

Alan Matthews: (2:07 PM ET ) With the presence of Cubs GM Jim Hendry at Virginia's regional this weekend, and new ownership perhaps tightening the purse strings in Chicago, the Cubs could make Doolittle a signability pick at No. 3 overall, despite his talent warranting a spot at their sandwich round pick at 48. He has a nice swing and he's a fluid athlete with plus-plus defense at first base. But there's questions about his power potential, and he might be more of a player along the lines of Dave Magadan. He's a safe bet to make it to the big leagues, but his ceiling pales in comparison to other candidates on the board at No. 3 overall.

[nick23]

FYI - Baseball America's Alan Mathews had this say to about our possible draft choice at #3:

 

Derek (Chi,IL): Any truth to the terrible Sean Doolittle to the Cubs at #3 rumors?

 

Alan Matthews: (2:07 PM ET ) With the presence of Cubs GM Jim Hendry at Virginia's regional this weekend, and new ownership perhaps tightening the purse strings in Chicago, the Cubs could make Doolittle a signability pick at No. 3 overall, despite his talent warranting a spot at their sandwich round pick at 48. He has a nice swing and he's a fluid athlete with plus-plus defense at first base. But there's questions about his power potential, and he might be more of a player along the lines of Dave Magadan. He's a safe bet to make it to the big leagues, but his ceiling pales in comparison to other candidates on the board at No. 3 overall.

 

I'm starting to get a really sick feeling in my stomache.