Lou on the bullpen

[Soul]

Wuertz isn't going anywhere. He's had a very good year so far other than last night. I could see placing Eyre on the DL with a phantom injury to make room for another reliever to be called up.

 

I don't know about Wuertz. Haven't we seen this act from him before? I seem to remember him starting out good one other year and then tanking. I'm not sure I would give him all that much more time. He seems to be unable to maintain any consistency over the long haul.

[cubfan1955]

We all read that 'clutchiness' doesnt exist, but jeez did they forget to include the Chicago Cubs in their analysis? The pen does very well with the game not on the line or 'tight' and sure as its on the line...poof...up in smoke. Dempster, Howry and now Wuertz last night all in a week. This is getting nuts. The offense needs to hit better in the late innings too, but man this bullpen is putting up solid numbers but not performing as well as they should in tight games. Turn this merrygo round around.

 

The problem is not a lack of clutch relief work. The problem is the lineup and starting rotation aren't taking care of business enough on their own, so when the bullpen does falter, as all bullpens do from time to time, it's glaring.

Other teams bullpens rarely falter when they face the Cubs. It usually looks like they are trotting Cy Young out there. Look what the Pirates relievers did in the 15 inning game. Pathetic.

 

Agree completely about the lineup being the biggest problem and it has been for a long, long time.

 

and the cubs bullpen stopped the pirates for 5 innings.

Which proves the point our lineup is the problem and the bullpen can only do so much. At home against the Pirates and they can't muster one solitary run against the Bucs bullpen in 5 plus innings?

[jersey cubs fan]

Wuertz isn't going anywhere. He's had a very good year so far other than last night. I could see placing Eyre on the DL with a phantom injury to make room for another reliever to be called up.

 

I don't know about Wuertz. Haven't we seen this act from him before? I seem to remember him starting out good one other year and then tanking. I'm not sure I would give him all that much more time. He seems to be unable to maintain any consistency over the long haul.

 

You have no idea what you are talking about. He's been the most consistently effective reliever on the team for the past few years.

[CubColtPacer]

Wuertz isn't going anywhere. He's had a very good year so far other than last night. I could see placing Eyre on the DL with a phantom injury to make room for another reliever to be called up.

 

I don't know about Wuertz. Haven't we seen this act from him before? I seem to remember him starting out good one other year and then tanking. I'm not sure I would give him all that much more time. He seems to be unable to maintain any consistency over the long haul.

 

It's been the opposite actually. Wuertz has been typically poor in the first half, and unbelievable in the second half. Here are his combined numbers from 2004-2006:

 

Pre All-Star-60.0 IP, 5.40 ERA, 62 H, 9 HR, 59 K/37 BB, .273 BAA

Post All-Star-85.1 IP, 2.32 ERA, 55 H, 6 HR, 102 K/36 BB, .182 BAA

[Backtobanks]

The Cubs seem to lead the league in jumping out to a 4-5 run lead and then hibernating for the next 6-7 innings.

[rynefan]

There's not doubt the offense could do more (in most every game), but walking in a run is sickening at any point, and in my opinion, inexcusable. To walk in the winning run, in a game where you had a 4 run lead? Unreal. Just because the offense isn't doing its job, doesn't mean the relievers have to get in on the party.

[Outshined_One]

I saw a fascinating article on The Hardball Times about this sort of thing.

 

Yoink

 

The Most Boring Teams

 

Not every team has a lot of critical situation, however. Some teams just play boring games, with little in the way of low-scoring late-inning drama and much in the way of blowouts. One way to look at this is to check the leverage index for a team's crew of relievers (Dave ran a similar list last week):

 

Team LI

White Sox 1.54

Cubs 1.41

Reds 1.41

Athletics 1.37

Diamondbacks 1.36

Tigers 1.31

Rockies 1.25

Pirates 1.24

Padres 1.22

Phillies 1.21

Indians 1.19

Marlins 1.19

Brewers 1.17

Nationals 1.14

Dodgers 1.13

Orioles 1.13

Braves 1.11

Blue Jays 1.08

Devil Rays 1.08

Giants 1.07

Twins 1.05

Astros 1.03

Yankees 1.02

Angels 1.01

Royals 0.99

Red Sox 0.97

Mets 0.92

Cardinals 0.88

Rangers 0.73

Mariners 0.65

 

 

Remember, the higher the leverage, the more critical the situation is. The list shows how important of a situation a team's relievers are being thrown into, which is a kind of proxy measure of how tense a team's games are.

 

Chicago fans of both persuasions are being treated to exciting games this year, even if they don't always come out on the winning end. On the other hand, despite being two games over .500, the Mariners haven't played very exciting baseball. The Mets and Red Sox are exerting their dominance by dispatching opponents without drama; the Brewers and Indians are winning and putting on a show at the same time.

 

In other words, the Cubs have been in the second most pressure-filled games when they hand it over to the bullpen of any team in baseball.

 

This basically means that, compared to all but one team this year, the Cubs' bullpen has been placed in situations with little to no room for error. Even if the bullpen has been merely decent, with those kinds of situations constantly popping up, that's not good enough.

 

Take it for what you will. Maybe the starters need to improve, maybe the lineup needs to do a better job, or maybe the bullpen could use an upgrade. Heck, maybe it's all of the above. The bottom line is, these tense situations in games handed over to the bullpen have magnified any flaws it has to a strong extent.

[cubweiser03]

We all read that 'clutchiness' doesnt exist, but jeez did they forget to include the Chicago Cubs in their analysis? The pen does very well with the game not on the line or 'tight' and sure as its on the line...poof...up in smoke. Dempster, Howry and now Wuertz last night all in a week. This is getting nuts. The offense needs to hit better in the late innings too, but man this bullpen is putting up solid numbers but not performing as well as they should in tight games. Turn this merrygo round around.

 

The problem is not a lack of clutch relief work. The problem is the lineup and starting rotation aren't taking care of business enough on their own, so when the bullpen does falter, as all bullpens do from time to time, it's glaring.

 

3/5th of the rotation has been stellar. Im not about to ask anymore from them other than Z. Wuertz has very good #s but his 2 bad games coincide with tight blow leads. Same goes for Howry's 3 turds. Cherry drops his first turd in a game with the lead last night too. Ohman hasnt done as well as he could when asked to. Dempster has done very well and his only flub is 1 run on one hit inning. For being the closer, he has been rock solid so far.

 

Yes, the offense production in the late innings is terrible, they need to do better no doubt. Why they arent pounding the crap out of the worst pitchers on the opposing teams is beyond me. But the bullpen has the talent to do very well. They need to do a better job in tight situations too.

[rawaction]

I saw a fascinating article on The Hardball Times about this sort of thing.

 

Yoink

 

The Most Boring Teams

 

Not every team has a lot of critical situation, however. Some teams just play boring games, with little in the way of low-scoring late-inning drama and much in the way of blowouts. One way to look at this is to check the leverage index for a team's crew of relievers (Dave ran a similar list last week):

 

Team LI

White Sox 1.54

Cubs 1.41

Reds 1.41

Athletics 1.37

Diamondbacks 1.36

Tigers 1.31

Rockies 1.25

Pirates 1.24

Padres 1.22

Phillies 1.21

Indians 1.19

Marlins 1.19

Brewers 1.17

Nationals 1.14

Dodgers 1.13

Orioles 1.13

Braves 1.11

Blue Jays 1.08

Devil Rays 1.08

Giants 1.07

Twins 1.05

Astros 1.03

Yankees 1.02

Angels 1.01

Royals 0.99

Red Sox 0.97

Mets 0.92

Cardinals 0.88

Rangers 0.73

Mariners 0.65

 

 

Remember, the higher the leverage, the more critical the situation is. The list shows how important of a situation a team's relievers are being thrown into, which is a kind of proxy measure of how tense a team's games are.

 

Chicago fans of both persuasions are being treated to exciting games this year, even if they don't always come out on the winning end. On the other hand, despite being two games over .500, the Mariners haven't played very exciting baseball. The Mets and Red Sox are exerting their dominance by dispatching opponents without drama; the Brewers and Indians are winning and putting on a show at the same time.

 

In other words, the Cubs have been in the second most pressure-filled games when they hand it over to the bullpen of any team in baseball.

 

This basically means that, compared to all but one team this year, the Cubs' bullpen has been placed in situations with little to no room for error. Even if the bullpen has been merely decent, with those kinds of situations constantly popping up, that's not good enough.

 

Take it for what you will. Maybe the starters need to improve, maybe the lineup needs to do a better job, or maybe the bullpen could use an upgrade. Heck, maybe it's all of the above. The bottom line is, these tense situations in games handed over to the bullpen have magnified any flaws it has to a strong extent.

 

That's interesting.

[cubfan1955]

I saw a fascinating article on The Hardball Times about this sort of thing.

 

Yoink

 

The Most Boring Teams

 

Not every team has a lot of critical situation, however. Some teams just play boring games, with little in the way of low-scoring late-inning drama and much in the way of blowouts. One way to look at this is to check the leverage index for a team's crew of relievers (Dave ran a similar list last week):

 

Team LI

White Sox 1.54

Cubs 1.41

Reds 1.41

Athletics 1.37

Diamondbacks 1.36

Tigers 1.31

Rockies 1.25

Pirates 1.24

Padres 1.22

Phillies 1.21

Indians 1.19

Marlins 1.19

Brewers 1.17

Nationals 1.14

Dodgers 1.13

Orioles 1.13

Braves 1.11

Blue Jays 1.08

Devil Rays 1.08

Giants 1.07

Twins 1.05

Astros 1.03

Yankees 1.02

Angels 1.01

Royals 0.99

Red Sox 0.97

Mets 0.92

Cardinals 0.88

Rangers 0.73

Mariners 0.65

 

 

Remember, the higher the leverage, the more critical the situation is. The list shows how important of a situation a team's relievers are being thrown into, which is a kind of proxy measure of how tense a team's games are.

 

Chicago fans of both persuasions are being treated to exciting games this year, even if they don't always come out on the winning end. On the other hand, despite being two games over .500, the Mariners haven't played very exciting baseball. The Mets and Red Sox are exerting their dominance by dispatching opponents without drama; the Brewers and Indians are winning and putting on a show at the same time.

 

In other words, the Cubs have been in the second most pressure-filled games when they hand it over to the bullpen of any team in baseball.

 

This basically means that, compared to all but one team this year, the Cubs' bullpen has been placed in situations with little to no room for error. Even if the bullpen has been merely decent, with those kinds of situations constantly popping up, that's not good enough.

 

Take it for what you will. Maybe the starters need to improve, maybe the lineup needs to do a better job, or maybe the bullpen could use an upgrade. Heck, maybe it's all of the above. The bottom line is, these tense situations in games handed over to the bullpen have magnified any flaws it has to a strong extent.

That is interesting. I wonder how Rolaids sales are doing in Chicago? :lol:

[jersey cubs fan]

There's not doubt the offense could do more (in most every game), but walking in a run is sickening at any point, and in my opinion, inexcusable. To walk in the winning run, in a game where you had a 4 run lead? Unreal. Just because the offense isn't doing its job, doesn't mean the relievers have to get in on the party.

 

Okay, we get it, you're pissed he walked in the winning run. Fine. But what does the fact that they had a lead earlier in the game matter? Do you really think it's better to do that when you spent the first 8 innings leapfrogging each other with 1-run leads? Or if your team came back from a 4-0 deficit?

 

The point is the bullpen is going to surrender runs. It happens. They are your less reliable pitchers, by definition. That is why they are in the bullpen. They aren't going to win you games. And they aren't going to determine your season. If you need your bullpen to go 3 scoreless in order to win games, you are going to lose a lot of games.

[cbbryan]

There's not doubt the offense could do more (in most every game), but walking in a run is sickening at any point, and in my opinion, inexcusable. To walk in the winning run, in a game where you had a 4 run lead? Unreal. Just because the offense isn't doing its job, doesn't mean the relievers have to get in on the party.

 

Okay, we get it, you're pissed he walked in the winning run. Fine. But what does the fact that they had a lead earlier in the game matter? Do you really think it's better to do that when you spent the first 8 innings leapfrogging each other with 1-run leads? Or if your team came back from a 4-0 deficit?

 

The point is the bullpen is going to surrender runs. It happens. They are your less reliable pitchers, by definition. That is why they are in the bullpen. They aren't going to win you games. And they aren't going to determine your season. If you need your bullpen to go 3 scoreless in order to win games, you are going to lose a lot of games.

 

My issue with last nights game is not that the Cubs lost via the bullpen, but that it was a walk that scored the run. Make Delgado put the ball in play. I don't think throwing a strike is too much to ask for MLB level pitcher, do you?

 

I would have rather seen Delgado hit a GS in that position, rather then get a walk.

[BeerHere]

I saw a fascinating article on The Hardball Times about this sort of thing.

 

Yoink

 

The Most Boring Teams

 

Not every team has a lot of critical situation, however. Some teams just play boring games, with little in the way of low-scoring late-inning drama and much in the way of blowouts. One way to look at this is to check the leverage index for a team's crew of relievers (Dave ran a similar list last week):

 

Team LI

White Sox 1.54

Cubs 1.41

Reds 1.41

Athletics 1.37

Diamondbacks 1.36

Tigers 1.31

Rockies 1.25

Pirates 1.24

Padres 1.22

Phillies 1.21

Indians 1.19

Marlins 1.19

Brewers 1.17

Nationals 1.14

Dodgers 1.13

Orioles 1.13

Braves 1.11

Blue Jays 1.08

Devil Rays 1.08

Giants 1.07

Twins 1.05

Astros 1.03

Yankees 1.02

Angels 1.01

Royals 0.99

Red Sox 0.97

Mets 0.92

Cardinals 0.88

Rangers 0.73

Mariners 0.65

 

 

Remember, the higher the leverage, the more critical the situation is. The list shows how important of a situation a team's relievers are being thrown into, which is a kind of proxy measure of how tense a team's games are.

 

Chicago fans of both persuasions are being treated to exciting games this year, even if they don't always come out on the winning end. On the other hand, despite being two games over .500, the Mariners haven't played very exciting baseball. The Mets and Red Sox are exerting their dominance by dispatching opponents without drama; the Brewers and Indians are winning and putting on a show at the same time.

 

In other words, the Cubs have been in the second most pressure-filled games when they hand it over to the bullpen of any team in baseball.

 

This basically means that, compared to all but one team this year, the Cubs' bullpen has been placed in situations with little to no room for error. Even if the bullpen has been merely decent, with those kinds of situations constantly popping up, that's not good enough.

 

Take it for what you will. Maybe the starters need to improve, maybe the lineup needs to do a better job, or maybe the bullpen could use an upgrade. Heck, maybe it's all of the above. The bottom line is, these tense situations in games handed over to the bullpen have magnified any flaws it has to a strong extent.

 

Fantastic analysis.

[Outshined_One]

See kids? Statistics can be fun and insightful! :D

[Pushfrog98]

Wuertz isn't going anywhere. He's had a very good year so far other than last night. I could see placing Eyre on the DL with a phantom injury to make room for another reliever to be called up.

 

I don't know about Wuertz. Haven't we seen this act from him before? I seem to remember him starting out good one other year and then tanking. I'm not sure I would give him all that much more time. He seems to be unable to maintain any consistency over the long haul.

Watch out soul! The ONE thing i've learned in my short time here is that you don't say ANYTHING bad about Wuertz. The amount of man-love for that guy is enormous here!

[Abe Frohman]

This is crazy. It's not the bullpens fault. Both papers all over that today. The pen gave up one run last night in three innings of work. They've got a 3.77 ERA on the season.

 

Four runs is not enough. We are struggling because we aren't scoring enough runs.

 

The Cubs bullpen has lost 10 games for us so far.

[jersey cubs fan]

There's not doubt the offense could do more (in most every game), but walking in a run is sickening at any point, and in my opinion, inexcusable. To walk in the winning run, in a game where you had a 4 run lead? Unreal. Just because the offense isn't doing its job, doesn't mean the relievers have to get in on the party.

 

Okay, we get it, you're pissed he walked in the winning run. Fine. But what does the fact that they had a lead earlier in the game matter? Do you really think it's better to do that when you spent the first 8 innings leapfrogging each other with 1-run leads? Or if your team came back from a 4-0 deficit?

 

The point is the bullpen is going to surrender runs. It happens. They are your less reliable pitchers, by definition. That is why they are in the bullpen. They aren't going to win you games. And they aren't going to determine your season. If you need your bullpen to go 3 scoreless in order to win games, you are going to lose a lot of games.

 

My issue with last nights game is not that the Cubs lost via the bullpen, but that it was a walk that scored the run. Make Delgado put the ball in play. I don't think throwing a strike is too much to ask for MLB level pitcher, do you?

 

I would have rather seen Delgado hit a GS in that position, rather then get a walk.

 

It should be noted that Wuertz threw 6 strikes in the at bat.

 

The 4 balls to Beltran were de facto intentional. Wasn't there a pitchout in the 1st walk (I hate pitchouts). So a good chunk of the balls were more or less thrown on purpose at the behest of the manager. I don't like putting a pitcher in a position where he has to throw strikes. Ideally he does. But bad things happen when a batter knows a pitcher has to come at him.

[BeerHere]

My 2 cents:

 

The offense couldn't bring in an insurance run which certainly would have lessened the pressure on the pen. The runs that Cherry let in were charged to Marquis, as they should have been.

 

That being said, Cherry was brought in for one purpose, to get outta that jam. It absolutely was a tough job, but the bottom line is, he didn't do it. (I didn't see the game live) but it sounded like he left two pitches up in the zone (one double, the other a sac fly) when he absolutely needed to keep the ball down.

 

Wuertz was trying to be too perfect in the 9th. When the bases are loaded and one run ends it in a loss, if you're at 3-2, you have to throw a strike. A ball most likely ends the game since the hitter knows you're wild. At least with a strike you give your defense a chance to make a play to win it for you. Wuertz lost his release point and couldn't throw a strike. A smart hitter will make a wild pitcher get him out in that situation. Wuertz couldn't do it.

[jersey cubs fan]

This is crazy. It's not the bullpens fault. Both papers all over that today. The pen gave up one run last night in three innings of work. They've got a 3.77 ERA on the season.

 

Four runs is not enough. We are struggling because we aren't scoring enough runs.

 

The Cubs bullpen has lost 10 games for us so far.

 

10 of the losses are attributed to relievers. That doesn't mean the bullpen lost 10 games. It takes a full team to win, if they don't, it's the team's fault. This isn't some juggernaut ballclub being letdown by the bullpen.

[jersey cubs fan]

Wuertz was trying to be too perfect in the 9th. When the bases are loaded and one run ends it in a loss, if you're at 3-2, you have to throw a strike. A ball most likely ends the game since the hitter knows you're wild. At least with a strike you give your defense a chance to make a play to win it for you. Wuertz lost his release point and couldn't throw a strike. A smart hitter will make a wild pitcher get him out in that situation. Wuertz couldn't do it.

 

He threw 6 strikes. Delgado had a great at bat and fouled balls off.

[Abe Frohman]

This is crazy. It's not the bullpens fault. Both papers all over that today. The pen gave up one run last night in three innings of work. They've got a 3.77 ERA on the season.

 

Four runs is not enough. We are struggling because we aren't scoring enough runs.

 

The Cubs bullpen has lost 10 games for us so far.

 

10 of the losses are attributed to relievers. That doesn't mean the bullpen lost 10 games. It takes a full team to win, if they don't, it's the team's fault. This isn't some juggernaut ballclub being letdown by the bullpen.

 

I agree, really. I am just pointing out that 10 losses are on the reliever's record. I am with you on the team concept.

[Pushfrog98]

keep in mind, I DO like Wuertz, and I think he's played well this year and last year, but there are still times when I cringe when he's on the mound.

[Pushfrog98]

Other teams bullpens rarely falter when they face the Cubs. It usually looks like they are trotting Cy Young out there. Look what the Pirates relievers did in the 15 inning game. Pathetic.

 

Agree completely about the lineup being the biggest problem and it has been for a long, long time.

I've been trying to get the Cubs offense on the Cy Young ballot for a while now.

 

They make mediocre pitchers look amazing!

[BeerHere]

Wuertz was trying to be too perfect in the 9th. When the bases are loaded and one run ends it in a loss, if you're at 3-2, you have to throw a strike. A ball most likely ends the game since the hitter knows you're wild. At least with a strike you give your defense a chance to make a play to win it for you. Wuertz lost his release point and couldn't throw a strike. A smart hitter will make a wild pitcher get him out in that situation. Wuertz couldn't do it.

 

He threw 6 strikes. Delgado had a great at bat and fouled balls off.

Delgado was being a smart hitter. He was looking for something ina zone to drive. Anything close he fouled off. Unlesss GameCenter was inaccurate (distinct possibility) some of the fouls were off the outside corner, and would have been balls. This is what I meant when I said he was trying to be too perfect. Hitting the corners and trying to make the hitter go after your pitch is exactly right until the count became 3-2.

 

Either way, the game came down to that situation and unfortunately, Wuertz lost. It was a team loss. The offense forced the bullpen to need to be perfect. The bullpen wasn't perfect.

Edited May 15, 2007 by BeerHere

[BeerHere]

keep in mind, I DO like Wuertz, and I think he's played well this year and last year, but there are still times when I cringe when he's on the mound.

 

I cringe any time the Cubs play.