Should Z Still Get Big Money?

[back2backjax]

Folks,

 

The more I see Zambrano pitch this season, the more I'm wondering if we shouldn't be thankful that big contracts were frozen before he was signed to a long-term deal.

 

We all here the adage about players performing well in their contract season, but for some reason that doesn't hold true with Zambrano. He's been a wreck this year and his ERA is 5.89 as I type this. Is that really a good investment of $17/18M per season?

 

Hill is showing signs of being a dominant pitcher, Marquis has been lights out, Lilly has been steady. Would we be better off counting on Guzman or another minor leaguer for one spot, sign another above average pitcher and then use that money we would have given to Z on a stellar shortstop (A-Rod?) or OF with power?

 

[Home run to Bay...ERA is now at 6.09]

 

I could envision Theriot being the everyday 2B next season with Soriano in LF, Pie in CF and A-Rod at SS. If Pie hits .220 who cares? His glove will keep a bunch of runs from scoring and we'll have plenty of offense to slug it out with teams. Put him in the 8 hole and tell him to relax.

 

Just an idea.

[Soriano12]

No. Z should be traded by the deadline for the best prospects offered.

[killthegoat06]

No

[back2backjax]

No. Z should be traded by the deadline for the best prospects offered.

 

Agree totally. Let him work out a contract with a team that will give us a couple of big prospects and let them deal with his "great performance"/"awful performance" roller coaster.

 

Players that refer to themselves in the 3rd person have a way of becoming more trouble than their worth. Now that he's pitching like crap, he may have entered that zone.

[Brian]

well considering Marquis got 3/21, who knows what will happen with Carlos

[RynoRules]

I would trade Z for immediate help at SS or RF. I think we have enough internal pitching depth to fill the rotation. What we lack is position players who can hit.

[Mizzou]

At this point, I think that we should trade him. I love his passion, but he's not as great as people think he is. He's going to be ridiculously overpaid, may as well let some other team do it.

[RynoRules]

Would Baltimore do Z for Tejada and a prospect? Would we?

[Mizzou]

Would Baltimore do Z for Tejada and a prospect? Would we?

I don't know if Baltimore would, but I'd do that deal in a second.

[ZMovieman]

Would Baltimore do Z for Tejada and a prospect? Would we?

 

I'd prefer the prospect route to Tejada.

[BCVM22]

Would Baltimore do Z for Tejada and a prospect? Would we?

 

Baltimore would love to get a pitcher like Z, but I don't think they'd be willing to trade Tejada, given that the closest thing they have to another shortstop would be Chris Gomez or Brandon Fahey, hitting .165 at Triple-A Norfolk.

[jersey cubs fan]

Would Baltimore do Z for Tejada and a prospect? Would we?

 

I'd prefer the prospect route to Tejada.

 

I would too, but not sure how the Cubs can find one.

[soccer10k]

Would Baltimore do Z for Tejada and a prospect? Would we?

 

Baltimore would love to get a pitcher like Z, but I don't think they'd be willing to trade Tejada, given that the closest thing they have to another shortstop would be Chris Gomez or Brandon Fahey, hitting .165 at Triple-A Norfolk.

 

They can have Izzy or Cedeno.

[tfarks]

Get him the F out of here

[littleburr24]

Would Baltimore do Z for Tejada and a prospect? Would we?

 

Baltimore would love to get a pitcher like Z, but I don't think they'd be willing to trade Tejada, given that the closest thing they have to another shortstop would be Chris Gomez or Brandon Fahey, hitting .165 at Triple-A Norfolk.

 

They can have Izzy or Cedeno.

 

Why not both?

[GhostRunner]

Amazing. I can't even begin to count how many "If the Cubs trade Z, I'll never be a fan of this team again" posts I've read over the past few years. I guess a potential down year after several above-average years is enough for people to start flipping 180.

 

He's got some mechanics issues that need to get worked on. If it was a possible injury or lack of preparation that led to his poor start, then I'd see the point, but there's nothing about the situation right now that leads me to believe that Zambrano can't return to form. And if he does, the Cubs could potentially have the best rotation in the NL.

 

Regardless, we've got a couple of months to evaluate things before starting talks with other teams about trades. Let's see if he improves. Another perspective: if he does have a poor season, our price for locking up a pitcher who is Cy Young material 3 out of 4 seasons suddenly falls to a more reasonable level.

 

That all said, it's funny how some people thought his 3rd-person self-references, high emotions and on-field antics were endearing when he was pitching well. :)

[ctcf]

Amazing. I can't even begin to count how many "If the Cubs trade Z, I'll never be a fan of this team again" posts I've read over the past few years. I guess a potential down year after several above-average years is enough for people to start flipping 180.

 

He's got some mechanics issues that need to get worked on. If it was a possible injury or lack of preparation that led to his poor start, then I'd see the point, but there's nothing about the situation right now that leads me to believe that Zambrano can't return to form. And if he does, the Cubs could potentially have the best rotation in the NL.

 

Regardless, we've got a couple of months to evaluate things before starting talks with other teams about trades. Let's see if he improves. Another perspective: if he does have a poor season, our price for locking up a pitcher who is Cy Young material 3 out of 4 seasons suddenly falls to a more reasonable level.

 

That all said, it's funny how some people thought his 3rd-person self-references, high emotions and on-field antics were endearing when he was pitching well. :)

 

Holy crap! Someone who makes sense!

[jersey cubs fan]

He's got some mechanics issues that need to get worked on. If it was a possible injury or lack of preparation that led to his poor start, then I'd see the point, but there's nothing about the situation right now that leads me to believe that Zambrano can't return to form.

 

I don't know how anybody can see what has happened and insinuate there's no possible way Zambrano could be injured.

[GhostRunner]

I don't know how anybody can see what has happened and insinuate there's no possible way Zambrano could be injured.

Hasn't missed any starts, hasn't complained of any pain, had a strong training regimen and lost weight during the offseason, hasn't had a remarkable decrease in velocity, mentioned his mechanics issues himself during a post-game interview, which were subsequently backed up by Rothschild . . . besides a history of higher-than-ideal pitch counts, what exactly leads one to believe that he might be injured?

 

I'm no doctor, and I can't see into Z's arm, elbow or shoulder, but there's no sign of an injury being the cause of his current pitching problems. I never said it was impossible that he was injured, just that nothing right now leads to that conclusion.

[jersey cubs fan]

I don't know how anybody can see what has happened and insinuate there's no possible way Zambrano could be injured.

Hasn't missed any starts, hasn't complained of any pain, had a strong training regimen and lost weight during the offseason, hasn't had a remarkable decrease in velocity, mentioned his mechanics issues himself during a post-game interview, which were subsequently backed up by Rothschild . . . besides a history of higher-than-ideal pitch counts, what exactly leads one to believe that he might be injured?

 

I'm no doctor, and I can't see into Z's arm, elbow or shoulder, but there's no sign of an injury being the cause of his current pitching problems. I never said it was impossible that he was injured, just that nothing right now leads to that conclusion.

 

He's been pitching side arm half the year. He's complained of back and forearm problems in the past. He's been ridden hard just because he's a big bull and freak of nature.

 

His effectiveness has gradually gotten worse the past couple years, to the point that he was almost an entirely different type of pitcher last season. His control has gotten worse and worse.

 

Pitchers don't do what he has done and just chalk it up to being a little off mechanically.

[Amazing_Grace]

No. At this point, I think it's very possible, even probable, there's some kind of underlying injury behind Z's struggles. Trading him would be a good option if he's not on the DL, Lilly and Marquis are still looking strong, and if there's a good deal possible. If not, you have to go to the end of the season with him. If he has a down year, at worst, you can bring him back on a 1 year deal at a reasonable price or maybe he'll even take a 4 year deal similar to what Lilly got.

 

I was definitely in favor of resigning Z this offseason, but now I'm not so sure. There were a lot of people here that said no pitcher was worth what Zito got and that the Z deal being held up would end up a blessing in disguise and so far at least, it looks like they were right.

[back2backjax]

Amazing. I can't even begin to count how many "If the Cubs trade Z, I'll never be a fan of this team again" posts I've read over the past few years. I guess a potential down year after several above-average years is enough for people to start flipping 180.

 

He's got some mechanics issues that need to get worked on. If it was a possible injury or lack of preparation that led to his poor start, then I'd see the point, but there's nothing about the situation right now that leads me to believe that Zambrano can't return to form. And if he does, the Cubs could potentially have the best rotation in the NL.

 

Regardless, we've got a couple of months to evaluate things before starting talks with other teams about trades. Let's see if he improves. Another perspective: if he does have a poor season, our price for locking up a pitcher who is Cy Young material 3 out of 4 seasons suddenly falls to a more reasonable level.

 

That all said, it's funny how some people thought his 3rd-person self-references, high emotions and on-field antics were endearing when he was pitching well. :)

 

I think the "we must sign Z" mantra was appropriate until he turned into the 4th best pitcher on the staff for the first 6 weeks of the season. We might still be screaming that if Lilly, Hill and Marquis weren't playing the way they are, but because they are, Z's troubles are that much more disappointing. Four runs in the first to the Nationals?! Three in the first to the Pirates?! These are teams he should dominate.

 

I'm not saying we should immediately start seeking a trade, but until he straightens things out and returns to the Z of the past few seasons, I don't think having a 5 or 6 for $18M per contract on the table is prudent. Maybe something is wrong with him physically, maybe it's all mental. Either way, for him to be stinking like this during a contract season is alarming.

 

And why in the world is veteran pitcher who has been as successful as he has having mechanical issues? He's not Tiger Woods re-working his swing.

[GhostRunner]

I just don't follow the injury reasoning. Maybe, possibly, there's the remote chance that something's wrong with his arm. But if that is the case, then at the moment it's clearly not apparent to either Z, Rothschild, Piniella, Hendry or anyone else.

 

Evidence? They keep throwing him out there for each start. Pitch counts so far this year? 92, 109, 87, 113, 103, 113, 105, 117. Even the biggest brahma of the bulls isn't going to throw those totals if he's pitching with pain. Wouldn't Rothschild or Piniella have the inside track on determining the problem? They haven't opted to sit Z once this season. If he winds up going down with an arm problem, then they both deserve to get skewered for missing something obvious and compounding the problem by leaving him in there.

 

Unfortunately, Prior/Wood history shows us that the Cubs aren't always forthright regarding injuries. I think it's breeding some paranoia in this case.

[Amazing_Grace]

I just don't follow the injury reasoning. Maybe, possibly, there's the remote chance that something's wrong with his arm. But if that is the case, then at the moment it's clearly not apparent to either Z, Rothschild, Piniella, Hendry or anyone else.

 

Evidence? They keep throwing him out there for each start. Pitch counts so far this year? 92, 109, 87, 113, 103, 113, 105, 117. Even the biggest brahma of the bulls isn't going to throw those totals if he's pitching with pain. Wouldn't Rothschild or Piniella have the inside track on determining the problem? They haven't opted to sit Z once this season. If he winds up going down with an arm problem, then they both deserve to get skewered for missing something obvious and compounding the problem by leaving him in there.

 

Unfortunately, Prior/Wood history shows us that the Cubs aren't always forthright regarding injuries. I think it's breeding some paranoia in this case.

 

One would think that the pitching coach and manager would know if a pitcher is injured, but then, this is the organization that said Prior would be healthy this season. They didn't find his injury until about a month ago, after they'd been saying "he's fine" all spring.

[jersey cubs fan]

I just don't follow the injury reasoning. Maybe, possibly, there's the remote chance that something's wrong with his arm. But if that is the case, then at the moment it's clearly not apparent to either Z, Rothschild, Piniella, Hendry or anyone else.

 

Evidence? They keep throwing him out there for each start. Pitch counts so far this year? 92, 109, 87, 113, 103, 113, 105, 117. Even the biggest brahma of the bulls isn't going to throw those totals if he's pitching with pain.

 

Your evidence against the idea that he could be injured is that you assume the Cubs would handle it properly if he was? Guys "keep going out there" all the time until they finally figure out what the problem is. And an injury doesn't have to be something that causes great pain.