Yankees and Mets keeping an eye on Z

[Soriano12]

Cubs need to follow the Marlins model. Pitchers are perishable items, get what you can and trade them for good young prospects.

[killthegoat06]

trade him

[soccer10k]

There's no way he gets traded if the Cubs are in contention but if he walks at the end of the year and the Cubs get nothing in return, I'm gonna be pissed.

[jersey cubs fan]

Cubs need to follow the Marlins model. Pitchers are perishable items, get what you can and trade them for good young prospects.

 

It's just a shame they tried to model the organization off the Braves, but by doing so decided that what they needed to do was the try and build a once in a generation type pitching staff, which, by definition, would be next to impossible to pull off. If the Cubs never focused so heavily on building through a surplus of arms (and then subsequently running those arms into the ground, or out the door) while ignoring the lineup, there's a chance the heavy investments made over the past decade and a half would have paid off by now.

[Derwood]

i hope they didn't keep an eye on him today

[Lockes Eye Scar]

if zambrano keeps this up, all of his trade value will be gone by the all-star break.

[frostwyrm]

Would the Cubs move Soriano to RF? It seems like an odd fit, particularly with an already crowded OF.

 

I would.

 

Alfonso seems to have a great arm. Bruce Miles has been saying since the day he signed that Soriano should be the everyday RF for this club especially with Pie being groomed to become the everyday CF. Some of that was predicated on the belief that Jones could be dealt, which I still think can happen.

 

He definitely should be in RF.

 

I don't know if his offensive resurgence had anything to do with his move back to LF, but I wouldn't chance another move unless it was an emergency. He does have the arm, but RF in Wrigley is tough.

 

I'd put him in RF. It's far more likely that his recent offense stems from playing a bunch of games against the Pirates and Nats than from playing LF.

[biittner77]

I don't know if his offensive resurgence had anything to do with his move back to LF, but I wouldn't chance another move unless it was an emergency. He does have the arm, but RF in Wrigley is tough.

 

If Keith Moreland could play RF at Wrigley than Soriano should be able to. Though I don't see them making this change during the season.

[davearm]

I don't know if his offensive resurgence had anything to do with his move back to LF, but I wouldn't chance another move unless it was an emergency. He does have the arm, but RF in Wrigley is tough.

 

If Keith Moreland could play RF at Wrigley than Soriano should be able to. Though I don't see them making this change during the season.

By that logic, then so can Murton, or Floyd, or whomever... allowing Soriano to stay where he's more comfortable.

[jmajew]

Zambrano and Jones to Tampa for Carl Crawford.

 

However, the only way Tampa would do this is if they are able to lock of Z to a long term deal. I get the feeling all Z cares about is money and not about winning.

[CubinNY]

Zambrano and Jones to Tampa for Carl Crawford.

 

However, the only way Tampa would do this is if they are able to lock of Z to a long term deal. I get the feeling all Z cares about is money and not about winning.

 

That's one of the worst trade ideas this side of Victor Zambrano for Scott Kazmir.

 

Carl Crawford is flashy but not that good.

[CardsFanInChiTown]

Zambrano and Jones to Tampa for Carl Crawford.

 

However, the only way Tampa would do this is if they are able to lock of Z to a long term deal. I get the feeling all Z cares about is money and not about winning.

 

That's one of the worst trade ideas this side of Victor Zambrano for Scott Kazmir.

 

Carl Crawford is flashy but not that good.

 

 

Carl Crawford is a valuable player. He's young, cheap, plays elite defense and put up a solid .289/.364/.481 last year. Z is expensive, ineffective and going to be a FA.

[davearm]

Zambrano and Jones to Tampa for Carl Crawford.

 

However, the only way Tampa would do this is if they are able to lock of Z to a long term deal. I get the feeling all Z cares about is money and not about winning.

 

That's one of the worst trade ideas this side of Victor Zambrano for Scott Kazmir.

 

Carl Crawford is flashy but not that good.

 

 

Carl Crawford is a valuable player. He's young, cheap, plays elite defense and put up a solid .289/.364/.481 last year. Z is expensive, ineffective and going to be a FA.

Agreed.

 

The Cubs don't have a glaring need for another OF, but Crawford is an exciting young player that's still improving.

 

Given the various risks inherent with Zambrano, I'd feel pretty good about cashing him in on a guy like Crawford.

 

FWIW, PECOTA thinks Crawford will be worth more than Zambrano over the next 5 years... 25.3 WARP vs. 20.9 WARP.

[jmajew]

Zambrano and Jones to Tampa for Carl Crawford.

 

However, the only way Tampa would do this is if they are able to lock of Z to a long term deal. I get the feeling all Z cares about is money and not about winning.

 

That's one of the worst trade ideas this side of Victor Zambrano for Scott Kazmir.

 

Carl Crawford is flashy but not that good.

 

 

Carl Crawford is a valuable player. He's young, cheap, plays elite defense and put up a solid .289/.364/.481 last year. Z is expensive, ineffective and going to be a FA.

 

What makes Crawford a bad player? I hope Pie can be as good as Crawford. No to mention he also has a very good contract.

 

04/01/05: Signed four-year, $15.25 million contract w/2009-10 club options. 2007: $4 million, 2008: $5.25 million, 2009: $8.25 million club option w/$2.5 million buyout, 2010: $10 million club option w/$1.25 million buyout, 2011: Free Agent

[TruffleShuffle]

there's no sense discussing this because tampa will not trade for a one-year rental, and they won't pay a starting pitcher (or any player) upwards of $10M per year.

[CubinNY]

Zambrano and Jones to Tampa for Carl Crawford.

 

However, the only way Tampa would do this is if they are able to lock of Z to a long term deal. I get the feeling all Z cares about is money and not about winning.

 

That's one of the worst trade ideas this side of Victor Zambrano for Scott Kazmir.

 

Carl Crawford is flashy but not that good.

 

 

Carl Crawford is a valuable player. He's young, cheap, plays elite defense and put up a solid .289/.364/.481 last year. Z is expensive, ineffective and going to be a FA.

 

What makes Crawford a bad player? I hope Pie can be as good as Crawford. No to mention he also has a very good contract.

 

04/01/05: Signed four-year, $15.25 million contract w/2009-10 club options. 2007: $4 million, 2008: $5.25 million, 2009: $8.25 million club option w/$2.5 million buyout, 2010: $10 million club option w/$1.25 million buyout, 2011: Free Agent

 

I never said Crawford was bad. I said the trade was one sided. JJ and Z for mediocre outfielder is a terrible trade. Even if Z is a one year rental.

[CardsFanInChiTown]

Zambrano and Jones to Tampa for Carl Crawford.

 

However, the only way Tampa would do this is if they are able to lock of Z to a long term deal. I get the feeling all Z cares about is money and not about winning.

 

That's one of the worst trade ideas this side of Victor Zambrano for Scott Kazmir.

 

Carl Crawford is flashy but not that good.

 

 

Carl Crawford is a valuable player. He's young, cheap, plays elite defense and put up a solid .289/.364/.481 last year. Z is expensive, ineffective and going to be a FA.

 

What makes Crawford a bad player? I hope Pie can be as good as Crawford. No to mention he also has a very good contract.

 

04/01/05: Signed four-year, $15.25 million contract w/2009-10 club options. 2007: $4 million, 2008: $5.25 million, 2009: $8.25 million club option w/$2.5 million buyout, 2010: $10 million club option w/$1.25 million buyout, 2011: Free Agent

 

I never said Crawford was bad. I said the trade was one sided. JJ and Z for mediocre outfielder is a terrible trade. Even if Z is a one year rental.

 

 

And we're saying he's not a mediocre. He had the 2nd highest VORP for AL LFers last year and he plays plus defense. Also he's, young, improving and cheap. Considering everything I'd take him over Z.

[CubinNY]

Zambrano and Jones to Tampa for Carl Crawford.

 

However, the only way Tampa would do this is if they are able to lock of Z to a long term deal. I get the feeling all Z cares about is money and not about winning.

 

That's one of the worst trade ideas this side of Victor Zambrano for Scott Kazmir.

 

Carl Crawford is flashy but not that good.

 

 

Carl Crawford is a valuable player. He's young, cheap, plays elite defense and put up a solid .289/.364/.481 last year. Z is expensive, ineffective and going to be a FA.

 

What makes Crawford a bad player? I hope Pie can be as good as Crawford. No to mention he also has a very good contract.

 

04/01/05: Signed four-year, $15.25 million contract w/2009-10 club options. 2007: $4 million, 2008: $5.25 million, 2009: $8.25 million club option w/$2.5 million buyout, 2010: $10 million club option w/$1.25 million buyout, 2011: Free Agent

 

I never said Crawford was bad. I said the trade was one sided. JJ and Z for mediocre outfielder is a terrible trade. Even if Z is a one year rental.

 

 

And we're saying he's not a mediocre. He had the 2nd highest VORP for AL LFers last year and he plays plus defense. Also he's, young, improving and cheap. Considering everything I'd take him over Z.

Of course you would, you're a Cardinal fan. Carlos Zambrano was top 10 in VORP in MLB last year AMONG ALL PITCHERS.

 

Trading the likes of Carl Crawford for him is just plain stupid. Throwing in JJ to sweaten the pot is, well... stupider?

[CardsFanInChiTown]

Zambrano and Jones to Tampa for Carl Crawford.

 

However, the only way Tampa would do this is if they are able to lock of Z to a long term deal. I get the feeling all Z cares about is money and not about winning.

 

That's one of the worst trade ideas this side of Victor Zambrano for Scott Kazmir.

 

Carl Crawford is flashy but not that good.

 

 

Carl Crawford is a valuable player. He's young, cheap, plays elite defense and put up a solid .289/.364/.481 last year. Z is expensive, ineffective and going to be a FA.

 

What makes Crawford a bad player? I hope Pie can be as good as Crawford. No to mention he also has a very good contract.

 

04/01/05: Signed four-year, $15.25 million contract w/2009-10 club options. 2007: $4 million, 2008: $5.25 million, 2009: $8.25 million club option w/$2.5 million buyout, 2010: $10 million club option w/$1.25 million buyout, 2011: Free Agent

 

I never said Crawford was bad. I said the trade was one sided. JJ and Z for mediocre outfielder is a terrible trade. Even if Z is a one year rental.

 

 

And we're saying he's not a mediocre. He had the 2nd highest VORP for AL LFers last year and he plays plus defense. Also he's, young, improving and cheap. Considering everything I'd take him over Z.

Of course you would, you're a Cardinal fan. Carlos Zambrano was top 10 in VORP in MLB last year AMONG ALL PITCHERS.

 

Trading the likes of Carl Crawford for him is just plain stupid. Throwing in JJ to sweaten the pot is, well... stupider?

 

 

Hah, it's not because I'm a Cardinals fan but because of the reasons I outlined above. Heck, if you notice some Cub fan posters agree with me. Z is a FA after this year and he looks injured. You keep bagging on Crawford and I don't know why.

[CubinNY]

Zambrano and Jones to Tampa for Carl Crawford.

 

However, the only way Tampa would do this is if they are able to lock of Z to a long term deal. I get the feeling all Z cares about is money and not about winning.

 

That's one of the worst trade ideas this side of Victor Zambrano for Scott Kazmir.

 

Carl Crawford is flashy but not that good.

 

 

Carl Crawford is a valuable player. He's young, cheap, plays elite defense and put up a solid .289/.364/.481 last year. Z is expensive, ineffective and going to be a FA.

 

What makes Crawford a bad player? I hope Pie can be as good as Crawford. No to mention he also has a very good contract.

 

04/01/05: Signed four-year, $15.25 million contract w/2009-10 club options. 2007: $4 million, 2008: $5.25 million, 2009: $8.25 million club option w/$2.5 million buyout, 2010: $10 million club option w/$1.25 million buyout, 2011: Free Agent

 

I never said Crawford was bad. I said the trade was one sided. JJ and Z for mediocre outfielder is a terrible trade. Even if Z is a one year rental.

 

 

And we're saying he's not a mediocre. He had the 2nd highest VORP for AL LFers last year and he plays plus defense. Also he's, young, improving and cheap. Considering everything I'd take him over Z.

Of course you would, you're a Cardinal fan. Carlos Zambrano was top 10 in VORP in MLB last year AMONG ALL PITCHERS.

 

Trading the likes of Carl Crawford for him is just plain stupid. Throwing in JJ to sweaten the pot is, well... stupider?

 

 

Hah, it's not because I'm a Cardinals fan but because of the reasons I outlined above. Heck, if you notice some Cub fan posters agree with me. Z is a FA after this year and he looks injured. You keep bagging on Crawford and I don't know why.

He looks injured my eye. He looks like he's got an incompetent pitching coach.

 

Mephisopheles posted data in a different thread showing that Z is getting righthanded batters out a better pace. His problems are walks and left handed batters. The contract limbo could be weighing on him as well.

 

Trading Z AND JJ for Carl Crawford is not a good trade.

 

That's not say I wouldn't trade Z, I just wouldn't trade him for yet another LFer.

[NCCubFan]

He looks injured my eye. He looks like he's got an incompetent pitching coach.

Does it look to you like Lilly, Marquis, and Hill have an incompetent pitching coach? Because they have the same pitching coach Zambrano has.

[CubinNY]

He looks injured my eye. He looks like he's got an incompetent pitching coach.

Does it look to you like Lilly, Marquis, and Hill have an incompetent pitching coach? Because they have the same pitching coach Zambrano has.

 

Yes

[Electron Blue]

He looks injured my eye. He looks like he's got an incompetent pitching coach.

Does it look to you like Lilly, Marquis, and Hill have an incompetent pitching coach? Because they have the same pitching coach Zambrano has.

 

Yes

 

come on, man, you know you gotta expand on that. It's an apparent hole in your logic - explain yourself. Also, Larry has been PC for Z's entire time as a starter for the Cubs. Was Larry competent for four+ years (in regards to Z, at least), yet became incompetent in the last month? Inquiring minds want to know.

[NCCubFan]

He looks injured my eye. He looks like he's got an incompetent pitching coach.

Does it look to you like Lilly, Marquis, and Hill have an incompetent pitching coach? Because they have the same pitching coach Zambrano has.

 

Yes

If the seasons Hill, Lilly, and Marquis are having this year are due to an "incompetent" pitching coach, give me incompetence or give me death. :D

 

(In other words, your statement makes absolutely no sense to me.)

[CubinNY]

He looks injured my eye. He looks like he's got an incompetent pitching coach.

Does it look to you like Lilly, Marquis, and Hill have an incompetent pitching coach? Because they have the same pitching coach Zambrano has.

 

Yes

If the seasons Hill, Lilly, and Marquis are having this year are due to an "incompetent" pitching coach, give me incompetence or give me death. :D

 

(In other words, your statement makes absolutely no sense to me.)

 

Rothschild has been the pitching coach for almost the entire time of Z and Prior's career. He was also the pitching coach for a good portion of Wood's career. Z, Prior, and Wood (to a lesser extent) has been exposed to a terrible amount of abuse under Larry's watch. Larry hasn't done much to improve any pitcher in my estimation. Hill was doing just fine before he came to the big leagues.

 

Lilly and Marquis have pitched a handfull of games for the Cubs. Lilly was a decent pitcher before comming to Chicago. Marquis was pretty good for the first part of last season too. We'll see how things shake out.