2007 NFL Draft

[TruffleShuffle]

I don't understand all the Brady Quinn hate. Maybe if he was ugly and didn't play for Notre Dame he wouldn't be bashed so much.

 

or maybe if he played well against good teams he wouldn't be bashed so much either

[adamb0719]

I don't understand all the Brady Quinn hate. Maybe if he was ugly and didn't play for Notre Dame he wouldn't be bashed so much.

 

or maybe if he played well against good teams he wouldn't be bashed so much either

 

Which big games are you referring to?

[Chocolate Milk]

I don't understand all the Brady Quinn hate. Maybe if he was ugly and didn't play for Notre Dame he wouldn't be bashed so much.

 

or maybe if he played well against good teams he wouldn't be bashed so much either

 

Quinn was the reason Notre Dame was even in most of their games. There wasn't a lot of talent there.

 

Just my opinion.

[TruffleShuffle]

I don't understand all the Brady Quinn hate. Maybe if he was ugly and didn't play for Notre Dame he wouldn't be bashed so much.

 

or maybe if he played well against good teams he wouldn't be bashed so much either

 

Quinn was the reason Notre Dame was even in most of their games. There wasn't a lot of talent there.

 

Just my opinion.

 

I think they had talent on the offensive side of the ball... on defense, not so much.

[TruffleShuffle]

I don't understand all the Brady Quinn hate. Maybe if he was ugly and didn't play for Notre Dame he wouldn't be bashed so much.

 

or maybe if he played well against good teams he wouldn't be bashed so much either

 

Which big games are you referring to?

 

QB rating against good defenses:

 

Ga Tech: 79.5

Penn State: 120.9

Michigan: 58.9

UCLA: 95

USC: 90.4

LSU: 50.7

[OleMissCub]

I don't understand all the Brady Quinn hate. Maybe if he was ugly and didn't play for Notre Dame he wouldn't be bashed so much.

 

or maybe if he played well against good teams he wouldn't be bashed so much either

 

Hard to win games when your defense gives up 47, 44, and 41 points (Michigan, USC, LSU).

[bukie]

QB rating against good defenses:

 

Ga Tech: 79.5

Penn State: 120.9

Michigan: 58.9

UCLA: 95

USC: 90.4

LSU: 50.7

 

So, 1 fantastic game, 2 great games, a decent game, and 2 bad games against good defenses. Curious what that averages out to overall, but Brady Quinn wasn't the reason ND looked bad in 3 games this year.

 

And, I'd like to think that if Brady Quinn wasn't a Notre Dame QB, he'd be getting a lot less flak around here.

[Banedon]

Well I would rather see Quinn go early than fall to the Vikings at #7. I'd prefer they keep having QB issues.

[TruffleShuffle]

QB rating against good defenses:

 

Ga Tech: 79.5

Penn State: 120.9

Michigan: 58.9

UCLA: 95

USC: 90.4

LSU: 50.7

 

So, 1 fantastic game, 2 great games, a decent game, and 2 bad games against good defenses. Curious what that averages out to overall, but Brady Quinn wasn't the reason ND looked bad in 3 games this year.

 

There are college football QB ratings, not NFL QB ratings.

 

Other games in 2006:

 

Michigan State: 113.3

Purdue: 117.9

Stanford: 116.0

Navy: 150.8

UNC: 136.1

Air Force: 148.5

Army: 112.9

[Banedon]

There are college football QB ratings, not NFL QB ratings.

 

What's the difference? Level of competition makes it easier to get a higher rating in college?

[CubColtPacer]

QB rating against good defenses:

 

Ga Tech: 79.5

Penn State: 120.9

Michigan: 58.9

UCLA: 95

USC: 90.4

LSU: 50.7

 

So, 1 fantastic game, 2 great games, a decent game, and 2 bad games against good defenses. Curious what that averages out to overall, but Brady Quinn wasn't the reason ND looked bad in 3 games this year.

 

There are college football QB ratings, not NFL QB ratings.

 

Other games in 2006:

 

Michigan State: 113.3

Purdue: 117.9

Stanford: 116.0

Navy: 150.8

UNC: 136.1

Air Force: 148.5

Army: 112.9

 

Actually, no they are not. You just posted what his performances would be on the NFL QB scale. For example, the Navy game he had a 210.72 on the college scale, and for Air Force he had a 234.67. You can find all his actual college ratings here:

 

http://cfbstats.com/2006/player/513/60149.html

[CubColtPacer]

There are college football QB ratings, not NFL QB ratings.

 

What's the difference? Level of competition makes it easier to get a higher rating in college?

 

There are different scales for college and the NFL-truffle was probably looking at Quinn's ESPN site, which lists his ratings on the NFL scale, not the college one.

[TruffleShuffle]

There are college football QB ratings, not NFL QB ratings.

 

What's the difference? Level of competition makes it easier to get a higher rating in college?

 

No, it's just a different formula. For example, Peyton Manning had the highest NFL QB rating this year at 101. There were 99 college QBs who had a higher numerical rating than this.

[TruffleShuffle]

There are college football QB ratings, not NFL QB ratings.

 

What's the difference? Level of competition makes it easier to get a higher rating in college?

 

There are different scales for college and the NFL-truffle was probably looking at Quinn's ESPN site, which lists his ratings on the NFL scale, not the college one.

 

why the crap do they do that?

[bukie]

There are college football QB ratings, not NFL QB ratings.

 

What's the difference? Level of competition makes it easier to get a higher rating in college?

 

The main difference is that there is no upper limit, so a Colt Brennan got something like a 186 rating this year to set the record for highest rating.

 

A league-average rating is basically 79, though.

 

EDIT: Formulas:

 

The college formula is as follows: (100 * Completion %) + (8.4 * Yds per att) + (330 * Td %) - (200 * Int %).

 

Pros is (Completion PCT) + (YPA) + (TD per attempt) + (INT per attempt) divided by 6, times 100. A simplified way to calculate rating is: (83.33 * Comp %) + (4.16667 * Yds per att) + (333.333 * TD pct) - (416.667 * INT pct) + 25/12.

Edited April 27, 2007 by bukie

[TruffleShuffle]

QB rating against good defenses:

 

Ga Tech: 79.5

Penn State: 120.9

Michigan: 58.9

UCLA: 95

USC: 90.4

LSU: 50.7

 

So, 1 fantastic game, 2 great games, a decent game, and 2 bad games against good defenses. Curious what that averages out to overall, but Brady Quinn wasn't the reason ND looked bad in 3 games this year.

 

There are college football QB ratings, not NFL QB ratings.

 

Other games in 2006:

 

Michigan State: 113.3

Purdue: 117.9

Stanford: 116.0

Navy: 150.8

UNC: 136.1

Air Force: 148.5

Army: 112.9

 

Actually, no they are not. You just posted what his performances would be on the NFL QB scale. For example, the Navy game he had a 210.72 on the college scale, and for Air Force he had a 234.67. You can find all his actual college ratings here:

 

http://cfbstats.com/2006/player/513/60149.html

 

my bad... it's confusing, because on his overall player page, ESPN lists his QB rating as 146, which obviously has to be on the college scale. But in the game log, it usees NFL scale.

 

Stupid ESPN.

 

Regardless, the numbers bear out that he played significantly better against bad teams. From the games I saw this year, it seemed like he struggled against more confusing defensive schemes, and especially against defenses with very good team speed.

[CubColtPacer]

There are college football QB ratings, not NFL QB ratings.

 

What's the difference? Level of competition makes it easier to get a higher rating in college?

 

There are different scales for college and the NFL-truffle was probably looking at Quinn's ESPN site, which lists his ratings on the NFL scale, not the college one.

 

why the crap do they do that?

 

Probably because more people know what is good and bad based on the NFL one. Bukie's point from earlier on this page now stands though about the quality of most Quinn's games, and it gets even more pronounced when you look at 2005-he only had 1 game under 90 rating (NFL rating) in 2005, and that game was the USC game when Quinn led an 88 yard drive resulting in him running in what was supposed to be the game-winning TD with less than 2 minutes left.

[CubColtPacer]

QB rating against good defenses:

 

Ga Tech: 79.5

Penn State: 120.9

Michigan: 58.9

UCLA: 95

USC: 90.4

LSU: 50.7

 

So, 1 fantastic game, 2 great games, a decent game, and 2 bad games against good defenses. Curious what that averages out to overall, but Brady Quinn wasn't the reason ND looked bad in 3 games this year.

 

There are college football QB ratings, not NFL QB ratings.

 

Other games in 2006:

 

Michigan State: 113.3

Purdue: 117.9

Stanford: 116.0

Navy: 150.8

UNC: 136.1

Air Force: 148.5

Army: 112.9

 

Actually, no they are not. You just posted what his performances would be on the NFL QB scale. For example, the Navy game he had a 210.72 on the college scale, and for Air Force he had a 234.67. You can find all his actual college ratings here:

 

http://cfbstats.com/2006/player/513/60149.html

 

my bad... it's confusing, because on his overall player page, ESPN lists his QB rating as 146, which obviously has to be on the college scale. But in the game log, it usees NFL scale.

 

Stupid ESPN.

 

Regardless, the numbers bear out that he played significantly better against bad teams. From the games I saw this year, it seemed like he struggled against more confusing defensive schemes, and especially against defenses with very good team speed.

 

Just about every QB plays much better against bad teams in college. Russell certainly did. Quinn was really good against defensive schemes in 2005, and he didn't just lose that ability in 2006-what he lost was any idea of an offensive line. Against Michigan, the line played absolutely horribly. Against LSU, Quinn played probably his first truly bad game in 2 years.

 

Edit: I want to add that I am very worried about Quinn being not great in the pros. However, it has nothing to do with his ability to play in big games-other then the LSU game (where the running game was the only thing to show up and Quinn did not) in every other big game Quinn did his best to carry the entire team by himself while everyone else faltered, even the receivers who dropped several key passes (in 2005 usually the whole offense showed up, but not the defense).

Edited April 27, 2007 by CubColtPacer

[TruffleShuffle]

Just about every QB plays much better against bad teams in college. Russell certainly did. Quinn was really good against defensive schemes in 2005, and he didn't just lose that ability in 2006-what he lost was any idea of an offensive line. Against Michigan, the line played absolutely horribly. Against LSU, Quinn played probably his first truly bad game in 2 years.

 

I'm not sold on Russell either. I think Quinn may end up being an average QB, but I don't want an average player at any position with a top-5 pick in the draft. I think I'll stop debating this now because none of us really know whether he'll be good or bad in the NFL, and I know I'm just going to end up arguing with 5 ND fans about this, which will be futile.

[soccer10k]

Regardless, the numbers bear out that he played significantly better against bad teams. From the games I saw this year, it seemed like he struggled against more confusing defensive schemes, and especially against defenses with very good team speed.

 

So according to you the Raiders should just go ahead and draft Troy Smith with the top overall pick then because he beat Michigan 3 times and generally (the title game this year being the exception) played well in the big games. Brilliant logic.

 

EDIT: I'm not sold on Quinn as the top overall pick, but I like him a hell of a lot more than Russell and as the best QB in the draft.

[soccer10k]

I think the Raiders should draft Matt Leinart with their first round pick this year.

 

Oh wait, they had the chance to do that last year but passed on him. That's right. Almost forgot.

[CubColtPacer]

Just about every QB plays much better against bad teams in college. Russell certainly did. Quinn was really good against defensive schemes in 2005, and he didn't just lose that ability in 2006-what he lost was any idea of an offensive line. Against Michigan, the line played absolutely horribly. Against LSU, Quinn played probably his first truly bad game in 2 years.

 

I'm not sold on Russell either. I think Quinn may end up being an average QB, but I don't want an average player at any position with a top-5 pick in the draft. I think I'll stop debating this now because none of us really know whether he'll be good or bad in the NFL, and I know I'm just going to end up arguing with 5 ND fans about this, which will be futile.

 

See my edit-I wouldn't draft Quinn either in the top 5, but I think he's the best QB out there this year. I have many of the same questions about Quinn as I did Leinhart last year.

[TruffleShuffle]

Regardless, the numbers bear out that he played significantly better against bad teams. From the games I saw this year, it seemed like he struggled against more confusing defensive schemes, and especially against defenses with very good team speed.

 

So according to you the Raiders should just go ahead and draft Troy Smith with the top overall pick then because he beat Michigan 3 times and generally (the title game this year being the exception) played well in the big games. Brilliant logic.

 

yeah if I had said that a team should just go ahead and draft a player based on who he played well against while ignoring his athletic ability and mental grasp of the game, then your criticism of me wouldn't be quite so asinine.

[bukie]

I think if the Raiders want the most sure thing this year out of college, they should just draft Calvin Johnson, trade for/sign a FA QB, draft a project QB in the later rounds, and call it good.

 

EDIT: And for the record, I'm an Illini fan, not a ND fan. This is shaping out to be a fairly boring first couple of hours of the draft for the Bear/Illini fans.

[CubColtPacer]

I think if the Raiders want the most sure thing this year out of college, they should just draft Calvin Johnson, trade for/sign a FA QB, draft a project QB in the later rounds, and call it good.

 

That's what I think the Raiders should do as well.