4/23 Cubs (Zambrano) vs Beermakers (Vargas) 7:05 WCIU

[CUBZ99]

The 03 Cubs were the first good Cubs team that I've been old enough to really follow, that those playoffs alone are enough to convince me that the Cubs are cursed. I can't imagine if I would have gone through 84 and 69.

 

the curse is specific. wrigley will never see a world series game after 1945.

 

the only way to break the curse is to demolish wrigley and salt the earth so that nothing will ever grow there again.

 

do that and the cubs will win a pennant.

 

:lol: :lol:

 

Who would have thought a goat would have that much pull?

[Omar]

 

exhibit a. game 6

 

The collapse in game 6 wasn't a curse. It was a group of guys that got spooked and didn't keep their head in the game. Moises freaked out, Prior freaked out, everyone freaked out. Everyone was looking for the "curse" at the park and thought they found it when Steve touched the ball. The images of priests at Wrigley before game 7 is an image I'll never forget.

 

If Lou was managing that, he probably would've had a mound visit with Prior.. either that, or have taken him out.

[Sarcastic]

it's like people are sitting there, watching the water rise, and telling themselves they don't believe in water as they drown.

 

Nobody's saying the Cubs are going to win the division this year. But if they end up in last place, it will not be because they never won a 1 run game, it will because they were outscored, maybe with a little bit of help from a bad record in 1 run games.

[Omar]

Memo: Cubs games are now every 5 days. You know why.

[Omar]

it's like people are sitting there, watching the water rise, and telling themselves they don't believe in water as they drown.

 

Nobody's saying the Cubs are going to win the division this year. But if they end up in last place, it will not be because they never won a 1 run game, it will because they were outscored, maybe with a little bit of help from a bad record in 1 run games.

 

What happens? Do they just settle down after what seems to be comfortable lead? And when it's time to come back all the air is gone.

[Magnetic Curses]

Yay for stupid BS kneejerk reactions!

 

Repeat after me: Curses are not real. Now, write that on the blackboard 1000 times.

 

Is it possible for the team to outscore their opponents but still end up last in the division? Yes. Is it likely to happen over a 162 game season? No. It can happen, but it is no more likely to happen because of some imaginary voodoo nonsense some people made up to explain a a bizarre longterm aberration.

 

Whats your evidence that curses aren't real?

 

The wonderful thing about curses is that, like all other things falling into the irrational realm of human thought, they cannot be proven or disproven. This is because they have no defined impact on the real world. Anything can be interpreted as evidence for or against a curse. In a way, it is a form of spiritualism. You might as well pray to the Sun God to give you a boutiful harvest.

 

If you want to believe in curses, that is up to you. Realistically though, curses have nothing to do with the real, material world. Believe it or not, that is where baseball is played.

 

you talk as if everything about the "material world" is already known. it's not. not by a long shot. the "material world" is not an absolute, it's closer to a concoction created by the mind and the collective minds of other observers.

[RichHillIsABeast]

Memo: Cubs games are now every 5 days. You know why.

 

<<<<<<<<

[Magnetic Curses]

it's like people are sitting there, watching the water rise, and telling themselves they don't believe in water as they drown.

 

Nobody's saying the Cubs are going to win the division this year. But if they end up in last place, it will not be because they never won a 1 run game, it will because they were outscored, maybe with a little bit of help from a bad record in 1 run games.

 

they're outscoring people this year and look what's happening, just look.

 

if you refuse to look and see what has always happened is happening once more then that's your prerogative.

[Sarcastic]

Yay for stupid BS kneejerk reactions!

 

Repeat after me: Curses are not real. Now, write that on the blackboard 1000 times.

 

Is it possible for the team to outscore their opponents but still end up last in the division? Yes. Is it likely to happen over a 162 game season? No. It can happen, but it is no more likely to happen because of some imaginary voodoo nonsense some people made up to explain a a bizarre longterm aberration.

 

Whats your evidence that curses aren't real?

 

The wonderful thing about curses is that, like all other things falling into the irrational realm of human thought, they cannot be proven or disproven. This is because they have no defined impact on the real world. Anything can be interpreted as evidence for or against a curse. In a way, it is a form of spiritualism. You might as well pray to the Sun God to give you a boutiful harvest.

 

If you want to believe in curses, that is up to you. Realistically though, curses have nothing to do with the real, material world. Believe it or not, that is where baseball is played.

 

What makes your line of thinking more rational? I have a mountain of evidence.

 

But it is all purely subjective evidence, and so not really evidence at all. Like I said, when it comes to the realm of the spiritual, anything can be seen as evidence for or against. There is certainly no way to objectively show the existence of a curse, and no way to disprove one either. Belief in curses is irrational due to that fact, no evidence can be seen as an objective support in the way you might gather objective evidence in a science experiment. You cannot say that the Cubs bad record in one run games means that the Goat controls their destiny through black magic, since that might just be how some other unseen force in the universe wants to make it look.

[Sarcastic]

it's like people are sitting there, watching the water rise, and telling themselves they don't believe in water as they drown.

 

Nobody's saying the Cubs are going to win the division this year. But if they end up in last place, it will not be because they never won a 1 run game, it will because they were outscored, maybe with a little bit of help from a bad record in 1 run games.

 

they're outscoring people this year and look what's happening, just look.

 

if you refuse to look and see what has always happened is happening once more then that's your prerogative.

 

If you refuse to listen to what I am saying that is yours, but I will repeat myself more clearly. If, at the END OF THE SEASON (that was implied in my last post) they are in last place, it will be because they were outscored. Anybody can suck in one run games in a sample size like this. Believe it or not, the Cubs are not the only team to have ever had a run like this.

[Magnetic Curses]

 

exhibit a. game 6

 

The collapse in game 6 wasn't a curse. It was a group of guys that got spooked and didn't keep their head in the game. Moises freaked out, Prior freaked out, everyone freaked out. Everyone was looking for the "curse" at the park and thought they found it when Steve touched the ball. The images of priests at Wrigley before game 7 is an image I'll never forget.

 

and if it happens again, which inevitably, it will, there will be another more "rational" explanation.

 

this whole thing reminds me of sisyphus.

[Magnetic Curses]

it's like people are sitting there, watching the water rise, and telling themselves they don't believe in water as they drown.

 

Nobody's saying the Cubs are going to win the division this year. But if they end up in last place, it will not be because they never won a 1 run game, it will because they were outscored, maybe with a little bit of help from a bad record in 1 run games.

 

they're outscoring people this year and look what's happening, just look.

 

if you refuse to look and see what has always happened is happening once more then that's your prerogative.

 

If you refuse to listen to what I am saying that is yours, but I will repeat myself more clearly. If, at the END OF THE SEASON (that was implied in my last post) they are in last place, it will be because they were outscored. Anybody can suck in one run games in a sample size like this. Believe it or not, the Cubs are not the only team to have ever had a run like this.

 

not consistently, year in and out.

[Sarcastic]

Yay for stupid BS kneejerk reactions!

 

Repeat after me: Curses are not real. Now, write that on the blackboard 1000 times.

 

Is it possible for the team to outscore their opponents but still end up last in the division? Yes. Is it likely to happen over a 162 game season? No. It can happen, but it is no more likely to happen because of some imaginary voodoo nonsense some people made up to explain a a bizarre longterm aberration.

 

Whats your evidence that curses aren't real?

 

The wonderful thing about curses is that, like all other things falling into the irrational realm of human thought, they cannot be proven or disproven. This is because they have no defined impact on the real world. Anything can be interpreted as evidence for or against a curse. In a way, it is a form of spiritualism. You might as well pray to the Sun God to give you a boutiful harvest.

 

If you want to believe in curses, that is up to you. Realistically though, curses have nothing to do with the real, material world. Believe it or not, that is where baseball is played.

 

you talk as if everything about the "material world" is already known. it's not. not by a long shot. the "material world" is not an absolute, it's closer to a concoction created by the mind and the collective minds of other observers.

 

True, but that doesn't mean we can start making up forces that act in purely unpredictable, irrational ways and say that they are perfectly rational because our current understanding does not fortell every element of the future. That is essentially what a curse does. It is random, unpredictable, and irrational. There is no way to EVER give evidence for the existence of a curse, simply because it has those properties.

[Balsa]

http://fullydevoted.blogspot.com/sad_cubs_ft.jpg

[Sarcastic]

it's like people are sitting there, watching the water rise, and telling themselves they don't believe in water as they drown.

 

Nobody's saying the Cubs are going to win the division this year. But if they end up in last place, it will not be because they never won a 1 run game, it will because they were outscored, maybe with a little bit of help from a bad record in 1 run games.

 

they're outscoring people this year and look what's happening, just look.

 

if you refuse to look and see what has always happened is happening once more then that's your prerogative.

 

If you refuse to listen to what I am saying that is yours, but I will repeat myself more clearly. If, at the END OF THE SEASON (that was implied in my last post) they are in last place, it will be because they were outscored. Anybody can suck in one run games in a sample size like this. Believe it or not, the Cubs are not the only team to have ever had a run like this.

 

not consistently, year in and out.

 

Show me the data. Even if the team has the worst club record in 1 run games in the league, I would bet that it is not a major aberration from the expected bottom of the lot. The Cubs have not, I remind you, been terrible in 1 run games year in and year out.

[VanceJergins]

Yay for stupid BS kneejerk reactions!

 

Repeat after me: Curses are not real. Now, write that on the blackboard 1000 times.

 

Is it possible for the team to outscore their opponents but still end up last in the division? Yes. Is it likely to happen over a 162 game season? No. It can happen, but it is no more likely to happen because of some imaginary voodoo nonsense some people made up to explain a a bizarre longterm aberration.

 

Whats your evidence that curses aren't real?

 

The wonderful thing about curses is that, like all other things falling into the irrational realm of human thought, they cannot be proven or disproven. This is because they have no defined impact on the real world. Anything can be interpreted as evidence for or against a curse. In a way, it is a form of spiritualism. You might as well pray to the Sun God to give you a boutiful harvest.

 

If you want to believe in curses, that is up to you. Realistically though, curses have nothing to do with the real, material world. Believe it or not, that is where baseball is played.

 

you talk as if everything about the "material world" is already known. it's not. not by a long shot. the "material world" is not an absolute, it's closer to a concoction created by the mind and the collective minds of other observers.

 

True, but that doesn't mean we can start making up forces that act in purely unpredictable, irrational ways and say that they are perfectly rational because our current understanding does not fortell every element of the future. That is essentially what a curse does. It is random, unpredictable, and irrational. There is no way to EVER give evidence for the existence of a curse, simply because it has those properties.

 

Actually, its pretty predictable that the Cubs suck.

[Magnetic Curses]

Yay for stupid BS kneejerk reactions!

 

Repeat after me: Curses are not real. Now, write that on the blackboard 1000 times.

 

Is it possible for the team to outscore their opponents but still end up last in the division? Yes. Is it likely to happen over a 162 game season? No. It can happen, but it is no more likely to happen because of some imaginary voodoo nonsense some people made up to explain a a bizarre longterm aberration.

 

Whats your evidence that curses aren't real?

 

The wonderful thing about curses is that, like all other things falling into the irrational realm of human thought, they cannot be proven or disproven. This is because they have no defined impact on the real world. Anything can be interpreted as evidence for or against a curse. In a way, it is a form of spiritualism. You might as well pray to the Sun God to give you a boutiful harvest.

 

If you want to believe in curses, that is up to you. Realistically though, curses have nothing to do with the real, material world. Believe it or not, that is where baseball is played.

 

you talk as if everything about the "material world" is already known. it's not. not by a long shot. the "material world" is not an absolute, it's closer to a concoction created by the mind and the collective minds of other observers.

 

True, but that doesn't mean we can start making up forces that act in purely unpredictable, irrational ways and say that they are perfectly rational because our current understanding does not fortell every element of the future. That is essentially what a curse does. It is random, unpredictable, and irrational. There is no way to EVER give evidence for the existence of a curse, simply because it has those properties.

 

we can say that there are forces at work here that we don't yet understand. because that's what it appears to be. i prefer to call it a curse, it's what's comfortable to me.

 

the facts are that the cubs haven't won in a very long time, and haven't been in a WS since sianis vowed that they wouldn't be. that's a coincidence, a very large one. you don't have to believe in it, not at all.

[Magnetic Curses]

it's like people are sitting there, watching the water rise, and telling themselves they don't believe in water as they drown.

 

Nobody's saying the Cubs are going to win the division this year. But if they end up in last place, it will not be because they never won a 1 run game, it will because they were outscored, maybe with a little bit of help from a bad record in 1 run games.

 

they're outscoring people this year and look what's happening, just look.

 

if you refuse to look and see what has always happened is happening once more then that's your prerogative.

 

If you refuse to listen to what I am saying that is yours, but I will repeat myself more clearly. If, at the END OF THE SEASON (that was implied in my last post) they are in last place, it will be because they were outscored. Anybody can suck in one run games in a sample size like this. Believe it or not, the Cubs are not the only team to have ever had a run like this.

 

not consistently, year in and out.

 

Show me the data. Even if the team has the worst club record in 1 run games in the league, I would bet that it is not a major aberration from the expected bottom of the lot. The Cubs have not, I remind you, been terrible in 1 run games year in and year out.

 

no, they find new and exciting ways of doing the same old stuff. whether having all of their players injured or losing 1 run games, the ball going through leon durham's legs or bouncing off alex gonzales's glove, dusty baker or lou piniella, jim hendry or larry himes, it doesn't matter.

 

a curse is a curse. it may change it's method of hurting you, but it still does.

[Z38Cubs]

Well, looking at this optimistically, the Cubs were 12-7 at this point last year, and we all know how that ended, so maybe the opposite this year???

[OleMissCub]

I agree...even though I don't believe in the supernatural, I agree with Sully. Something is up.

[Omar]

Well, looking at this optimistically, the Cubs were 12-7 at this point last year, and we all know how that ended, so maybe the opposite this year???

 

Now they're 7-12. 5 GB, already. We need a miracle? Will it happen? No. It just wont.

[Magnetic Curses]

what would it take for you to believe, sarcastic? would it take the rest of your life of seeing bizarre things happen to the cubs or would you still not believe?

[VanceJergins]

1. The black cat in 69.

Cubs had a 9 1/2 game lead in mid-August.

2. Leon Durham in 84

Cubs had a 2-0 lead in the series. In game 5, had a 3-0 lead with Sutcliffe pitching.

3. Steve Bartman

Cubs led series 3-1. In game 6, 5 outs away from the world series and Bartman happens.

4. Wood

5. Prior

Edited April 24, 2007 by VanceJergins

[Omar]

I think it's clear to say that its not just a coincidence. Something really is up.

[Sarcastic]

True, but that doesn't mean we can start making up forces that act in purely unpredictable, irrational ways and say that they are perfectly rational because our current understanding does not fortell every element of the future. That is essentially what a curse does. It is random, unpredictable, and irrational. There is no way to EVER give evidence for the existence of a curse, simply because it has those properties.

 

we can say that there are forces at work here that we don't yet understand. because that's what it appears to be. i prefer to call it a curse, it's what's comfortable to me.

 

the facts are that the cubs haven't won in a very long time, and haven't been in a WS since sianis vowed that they wouldn't be. that's a coincidence, a very large one. you don't have to believe in it, not at all.

 

There are plenty of bizarre coincidences in the world. That does not contradict our current understanding of the universe, which allows for the possibility, and even probability, of the existence of streaks. This is no proof of a curse, or even a new force. If you choose to channel your religious inclinations towards a curse of a baseball team, so be it, be recognize it for what it is; not truth, but faith. Faith in failure.