Early Season kudo's to Rothschild

[Jehrico]

Starting pitching has been outstanding, for the most part. Wade Miller just doesn't have the "stuff" he used to. Zambrano is now a known slow starter. Hill, Lilly, Marquis are all pitching better than expected. Plus, Dempster has been perfect thus far, and he got Cotts back on track after a truly awful ST. Let's see if he can get Howry and Eyre back to being top-notch setup men, and he'll get all of the man-love any pitching coach could handle. I'm liking what I'm seeing out of the pitching staff. Really makes you wonder how little Dusty must have listened to him when he was here.

[RynoRules]

Starting pitching has been outstanding, for the most part. Wade Miller just doesn't have the "stuff" he used to. Zambrano is now a known slow starter. Hill, Lilly, Marquis are all pitching better than expected. Plus, Dempster has been perfect thus far, and he got Cotts back on track after a truly awful ST. Let's see if he can get Howry and Eyre back to being top-notch setup men, and he'll get all of the man-love any pitching coach could handle. I'm liking what I'm seeing out of the pitching staff. Really makes you wonder how little Dusty must have listened to him when he was here.

 

I think you have a very good point here.

[Soriano12]

Len and Bob made a good point the other day, by getting some veteran pitchers it gives Larry the time to work on more game strategy with them.......vs last year when he was basically giving a crash course in Major League pitching 101 every other day.

[TheDude]

Rothschild still has a lot of work to do. As I pointed out yesterday in a different thread, the Cubs pitchers as a staff still walk too many batters, and the starting staff has higher pitch counts than you'd expect through 5 innings.

 

Big props to the lefties Lilly and Hill though. They've been awesome.

[Jehrico]

Rothschild still has a lot of work to do. As I pointed out yesterday in a different thread, the Cubs pitchers as a staff still walk too many batters, and the starting staff has higher pitch counts than you'd expect through 5 innings.

 

Big props to the lefties Lilly and Hill though. They've been awesome.

I'll be quite happy with Marquis if he pitches 180+ innings and finishes with an ERA under 4.00. That'll be another success story there.

[abuck1220]

seems like you're crediting rothschild for the guys who have had success and saying that he doesn't have anything to do with the guys who haven't.

 

and while i may give him some credit for marquis, i'm reluctant to heap praise on him for lilly or hill.

[Jehrico]

seems like you're crediting rothschild for the guys who have had success and saying that he doesn't have anything to do with the guys who haven't.

Not really. The staff as a whole has been very good. The number of guys exceeding expectations well outnumbers the number of guys not living up to their expectations. That's the metric I prefer to use to judge a pitching coach.

[sunnydoo]

Rothschild is awful.

 

He may be able to set up game management better than when he worked for Dusty, but he has zero clue on pitching mechanics.

 

And if he is so great, why is our bullpen so terrible (with a tip of the hat to our "brilliant" GM).

[Drew Doughty]

Rothschild is awful.

 

He may be able to set up game management better than when he worked for Dusty, but he has zero clue on pitching mechanics.

 

And if he is so great, why is our bullpen so terrible (with a tip of the hat to our "brilliant" GM).

 

our bullpen isn't terrible though. our 3.26 bullpen ERA is 9th in the majors.

 

howry, eyre, and ohman have struggled, the rest of the bullpen has been outstanding. "feast or famine" was used to describe it a few days ago, and that fits the bill perfectly.

[Banedon]

Rothschild is awful.

 

He may be able to set up game management better than when he worked for Dusty, but he has zero clue on pitching mechanics.

 

And if he is so great, why is our bullpen so terrible (with a tip of the hat to our "brilliant" GM).

 

Yeah, Cotts, Wuertz, Guzman, Dempster...they've all sucked hard huh?

 

Cubs are 9th overall in bullpen ERA.

[sunnydoo]

howry, eyre, and ohman have struggled, the rest of the bullpen has been outstanding. "feast or famine" was used to describe it a few days ago, and that fits the bill perfectly.

 

Our bullpen is 0-4, 2 blown saves, 5 wild pitches, and 3 saves through 15 games. Yes, some of the relievers have been doing an outstanding job. However as a unit, they are failing.

[RynoRules]

I dunno how saves are any measure of a pen. You can't get a save unless your team has the lead.

[Jehrico]

howry, eyre, and ohman have struggled, the rest of the bullpen has been outstanding. "feast or famine" was used to describe it a few days ago, and that fits the bill perfectly.

 

Our bullpen is 0-4, 2 blown saves, 5 wild pitches, and 3 saves through 15 games. Yes, some of the relievers have been doing an outstanding job. However as a unit, they are failing.

4 guys have basically been perfect. One has been mediocre, two have been bad. Show me how many teams in baseball have less than two relievers that are not doing well this early in the year. Show me how many teams have 4 relievers who have been virtually flawless. You won't find many. The main problem we're having is two of the guys who aren't living up to expectations are two of our guys who we figured would be the two to get in the game the most.

[soccer10k]

howry, eyre, and ohman have struggled, the rest of the bullpen has been outstanding. "feast or famine" was used to describe it a few days ago, and that fits the bill perfectly.

 

Our bullpen is 0-4, 2 blown saves, 5 wild pitches, and 3 saves through 15 games. Yes, some of the relievers have been doing an outstanding job. However as a unit, they are failing.

 

Saves are a horrible metric for rating the team. The Mets only have 3 saves but they are 10-4. The Yankees have 0 saves but they're 8-6. The Angels have 5 saves but they're 6-9.

 

Same goes for blown saves. Those same Yankees have 4 blown saves. The Texas Rangers have 0 blown saves but they're sitting at 6-9.

[seanimal]

Rothschild is awful.

 

He may be able to set up game management better than when he worked for Dusty, but he has zero clue on pitching mechanics.

 

You do realize that pitching coaches do far more than physiological analysis? But that's beside the point. I'm sure you have an argument substantiated by fact and professional opinion. Please, do tell.

 

And if he is so great, why is our bullpen so terrible (with a tip of the hat to our "brilliant" GM).

 

Our bullpen is not terrible. In fact, our bullpen is pretty good. You can cherry-pick all the stats you want, but at the end of the day, we have two poor performers who do not define the overall performance of the bullpen.

 

If Rothschild is so terrible, as you insist, he wouldn't be one of the most sought-after pitching coaches in professional baseball.

[sunnydoo]

First, i am not using saves as a metric for the bullpen. It would be pretty stupid of me to mention blown saves and then not mention the save total. Cherry pick or not, 60% is not good.

 

Second, look at the comments of Mike Marshall and Don Cooper among others in regards to the mechanics of the pitching deliveries of Wood and Prior. In large part, both of them think the injuries to their arms could have been avoided with changes in their overall mechanics.

 

And dont be surprised if we arent headed that way again. One of our starters who isnt doing well at the moment, isnt using the throwing motion he normally uses. Either he is hurt or he needs someone to tell him to knock it off and throw the ball which isnt exactly happening.

[Jehrico]

First, i am not using saves as a metric for the bullpen. It would be pretty stupid of me to mention blown saves and then not mention the save total. Cherry pick or not, 60% is not good.

 

Second, look at the comments of Mike Marshall and Don Cooper among others in regards to the mechanics of the pitching deliveries of Wood and Prior. In large part, both of them think the injuries to their arms could have been avoided with changes in their overall mechanics.

And dont be surprised if we arent headed that way again. One of our starters who isnt doing well at the moment, isnt using the throwing motion he normally uses. Either he is hurt or he needs someone to tell him to knock it off and throw the ball which isnt exactly happening.

First, Mike Marshall is an idiot. If he had his way, Wood would have adopted an entirely new pitching motion that likely would have had him topping out in the mid to high 80s with little movement on anything. His ERA would have been over 10, but hey, he'd be healthy. I won't comment on Cooper because I've never read anything from him. Second, how do you know Rothschild is at the root of their mechanical problems? A pitching coach should be there to tweak. You can't take a pitcher at the major league level and expect to completely overhaul his mechanics. That needs to be done alot earlier than at the major league level. Plus, you don't know how much his advice is being followed. As far as Prior goes, what is wrong with him is purely speculative, no one knows. Everyone wants to criticize his mechanics, but none of these so-called "experts" had anything to say about his highly-publicized "perfect" mechanics in '02 or '03. Who knows what Priors problem really is. I highly doubt it's purely a mechanical thing.

 

As far as your third paragraph goes, I haven't the slightest clue what you're talking about.

[sunnydoo]

First, Mike Marshall is an idiot.

 

Yah, he has Phd in Kinesioloygy (the physics/mechanics of human motion) from Marshall as well as being a former major league pitcher, Cy Young Winner, and All Star.

 

Truly an "idiot."

[98navigator]

Don Cooper, the White Sox pitching coach? Since when did he become an authority? They had some guys overachieve and win the World Series, that doesn't make him a pitching guru. What exactly did he do for Cliff Politte in 2005 that he couldn't do in 2006 (when he was released)? Cooper worked magic with Cotts last year too... While we're at it, why wasn't Cooper able to correct Mark Buehrle's problems in 2006?

 

If you're going to judge Rothschild for the failure of every pitcher on his staff then please use the same reasoning with other pitching coaches.

[Jehrico]

First, Mike Marshall is an idiot.

 

Yah, he has Phd in Kinesioloygy (the physics/mechanics of human motion) from Marshall as well as being a former major league pitcher, Cy Young Winner, and All Star.

 

Truly an "idiot."

He'd have every pitcher in the majors throwing in the 80s at most, if he had his way. Degree or not, doesn't mean anything. I've met plenty of idiots with degrees.

 

Former Cy Young? Doesn't mean anything. Ever see an HOF hitter suck as a hitting coach? Marshall didn't win the Cy Young because of his mechanics. He got it because he knew how to change speeds and keep hitters off balance. It's not like there's alot of teams beating down his door for his services as a pitching coach, which would certainly make him more money than selling those videos he's peddling.

[sunnydoo]

I've met plenty of idiots with degrees.

 

true, but not usually with Phds.

 

Former Cy Young? Doesn't mean anything. Ever see an HOF hitter suck as a hitting coach? Marshall didn't win the Cy Young because of his mechanics. He got it because he knew how to change speeds and keep hitters off balance. It's not like there's alot of teams beating down his door for his services as a pitching coach, which would certainly make him more money than selling those videos he's peddling.

 

Ya, missed the point. I was saying he has credibility because he has the degree and because he has the experience in the major leagues. For you to easily dismiss him as being an "idiot" makes you look myopic and only concerned in furthering your viewpoint.

 

Many pitchers get by with less than a 92 mph fastball by changing speeds and locations. To say there is only one way to pitch at 95mph is kind of silly. Greg Maddux late in his career is a perfect example. Good mechanics, good change of speed, and good location with a perfect mix. I would think like his brother that he would make an excellent pitching coach one day.

 

And to say Marshall's services arent in demand is also kind of silly. He may not want to do it. But if he does and clubs dont want to hire him, doesnt make him any less right either.

[NCCubFan]

Another excellent outing by Marquis, with a good (finally) performance by Ohman to combine for the shutout. I think Uncle Larry has to be part of the reason for this success. I'm convinced the problems in the past were simply due to Dusty not listening to Larry, as has been widely rumored (Dick Pole was Dusty's guy and Dusty resented being stuck with Larry).

[RynoRules]

Another excellent outing by Marquis, with a good (finally) performance by Ohman to combine for the shutout. I think Uncle Larry has to be part of the reason for this success. I'm convinced the problems in the past were simply due to Dusty not listening to Larry, as has been widely rumored (Dick Pole was Dusty's guy and Dusty resented being stuck with Larry).

 

Winner.

 

Anyone else notice how Lou isn't working his starters anywhere near as hard as Dusty? Doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure what the difference is here.

[Fred Hornkohl]

Another excellent outing by Marquis, with a good (finally) performance by Ohman to combine for the shutout. I think Uncle Larry has to be part of the reason for this success. I'm convinced the problems in the past were simply due to Dusty not listening to Larry, as has been widely rumored (Dick Pole was Dusty's guy and Dusty resented being stuck with Larry).

 

Winner.

 

Anyone else notice how Lou isn't working his starters anywhere near as hard as Dusty? Doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure what the difference is here.

 

Actually, this years' starters are averaging 96.18 P/G so far compared to 91.90 last season. Although today's 117 pitches by Marquis is the maximum pitch count so far, compared to a high of 128 last year.

[TruffleShuffle]

Another excellent outing by Marquis, with a good (finally) performance by Ohman to combine for the shutout. I think Uncle Larry has to be part of the reason for this success. I'm convinced the problems in the past were simply due to Dusty not listening to Larry, as has been widely rumored (Dick Pole was Dusty's guy and Dusty resented being stuck with Larry).

 

Winner.

 

Anyone else notice how Lou isn't working his starters anywhere near as hard as Dusty? Doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure what the difference is here.

 

Actually, this years' starters are averaging 96.18 P/G so far compared to 91.90 last season.

 

that probably has more to do with the cubs' starters getting drilled and knocked out earlier last year, whereas this year a lot of guys have been able to go deeper into games.