stop spending big $ on setup men, please

[abuck1220]

the cubs seem to operate under the theory that if they give a couple middle relievers big contracts and spend all offseason talking about how the pen is a "strength" and one of the best in the league, then it automatically becomes true.

 

the fact of the matter is, the difference between say guzman, wuertz, ohman and dempster, eyre, howry is more financial than production-based. eyre and howry are decent enough relievers, but paying them $4 mil/year when you can get the same/slightly worse production from guys like wuertz just doesn't make sense. relievers are too fickle to be spending that type of money on.

[oldstyle81]

evertt shouldnt have even been still up to bat

[Keener98]

evertt shouldnt have even been still up to bat

 

But he was and its still Howrys job as our supposed best reliever to get him out. Hell anything but give up a home run to Adam Freakin Everett. Howry and Eyre have been horrible so far this year. Money well spent there.

[Bruno7481]

evertt shouldnt have even been still up to bat

 

But he was and its still Howrys job as our supposed best reliever to get him out. Hell anything but give up a home run to Adam Freakin Everett. Howry and Eyre have been horrible so far this year. Money well spent there.

 

7 games.... Give it a little more than a week into they year before we evaluate if it was money well spent.

 

The real comedy is in the game threads, after each win or loss they are either losing 100 games, or headed to the playoffs.

[oldstyle81]

evertt shouldnt have even been still up to bat

 

But he was and its still Howrys job as our supposed best reliever to get him out. Hell anything but give up a home run to Adam Freakin Everett. Howry and Eyre have been horrible so far this year. Money well spent there.

 

yep i know he was, dosent change the fact he shouldnt have been

 

only so much a pitcher can do when the strike zone shrinks and then gets bigger and vice versa with every single pitch

[Keener98]

evertt shouldnt have even been still up to bat

 

But he was and its still Howrys job as our supposed best reliever to get him out. Hell anything but give up a home run to Adam Freakin Everett. Howry and Eyre have been horrible so far this year. Money well spent there.

 

7 games.... Give it a little more than a week into they year before we evaluate if it was money well spent.

 

The real comedy is in the game threads, after each win or loss they are either losing 100 games, or headed to the playoffs.

 

I dont care if its 7 games into the season. The point of the matter is that its absolutely ignorant to spend big money on relievers. They are not worth it considering you have just as good of a chance using somebody from your own system.

[Wilson A2000]

They both pitched relatively well last year. Give them some time. I am all for spending big money on middle relievers if they pitch well. A World Series caliber team needs them. Now spending money on pinch hitters like Ward who had one decent year is another story (I do realize he wasn't as expensive as the relievers).

[TruffleShuffle]

evertt shouldnt have even been still up to bat

 

But he was and its still Howrys job as our supposed best reliever to get him out. Hell anything but give up a home run to Adam Freakin Everett. Howry and Eyre have been horrible so far this year. Money well spent there.

 

7 games.... Give it a little more than a week into they year before we evaluate if it was money well spent.

 

The real comedy is in the game threads, after each win or loss they are either losing 100 games, or headed to the playoffs.

 

I dont care if its 7 games into the season. The point of the matter is that its absolutely ignorant to spend big money on relievers. They are not worth it considering you have just as good of a chance using somebody from your own system.

 

yeah we used a lot of guys from our own system last year, and they were God-awful. Howry is a good relief pitcher, even though half this board seems ready to bury him after two poor outings this year.

[Mizzou]

evertt shouldnt have even been still up to bat

 

But he was and its still Howrys job as our supposed best reliever to get him out. Hell anything but give up a home run to Adam Freakin Everett. Howry and Eyre have been horrible so far this year. Money well spent there.

 

7 games.... Give it a little more than a week into they year before we evaluate if it was money well spent.

 

The real comedy is in the game threads, after each win or loss they are either losing 100 games, or headed to the playoffs.

 

I dont care if its 7 games into the season. The point of the matter is that its absolutely ignorant to spend big money on relievers. They are not worth it considering you have just as good of a chance using somebody from your own system.

Just as good of a chance? How is it that minor league pitchers who failed as starters and thus were converted to relievers (for the most part) have just as good of a chance to be as good as a guy who has proven to be successful as a major league relief pitcher?

[ltb]

Just as good of a chance? How is it that minor league pitchers who failed as starters and thus were converted to relievers (for the most part) have just as good of a chance to be as good as a guy who has proven to be successful as a major league relief pitcher?

 

uhh, you forgot to mention that most of those "major league relief pitchers" also failed as starters in the minors.

 

small detail that is kind of important there.

[Wilson A2000]

Every reliever is a failed starter somewhere along the line

[Mizzou]

Just as good of a chance? How is it that minor league pitchers who failed as starters and thus were converted to relievers (for the most part) have just as good of a chance to be as good as a guy who has proven to be successful as a major league relief pitcher?

 

uhh, you forgot to mention that most of those "major league relief pitchers" also failed as starters in the minors.

 

small detail that is kind of important there.

Yeah, and then succeeded as relief pitchers. Whereas the minor league arms that people would rather have on their team have proven nothing. Just cause Howry has had success in the big leagues doesn't mean that every current minor league will.

[Guest]

I think the point is to look at the setup guys and see how few have consistently good results. I think Howry was money well spent, but he may not be the same after tying the record for appearances in one season.

 

Eyre I didn't like signing from the start.

 

 

 

-- edited to add:

 

In fact, I seem to recall someone owing me on a bet that Wuertz & Ohman would outproduce Howry & Eyre.

[TruffleShuffle]

Every reliever is a failed starter somewhere along the line

 

the difference being that some starters fail because they don't have the stamina, or don't have three good pitches... and other starters fail because they just aren't good enough to pitch in the big leagues.

[Wilson A2000]

Every reliever is a failed starter somewhere along the line

 

the difference being that some starters fail because they don't have the stamina, or don't have three good pitches... and other starters fail because they just aren't good enough to pitch in the big leagues.

 

Forward to jimhendry@tribune.com

 

I still thought Eyre and Howry were the two best relievers that the Cubs could have acquired last year. The pen can still be filled out with farm system guys and cheaper players. It's not like you can't have both. It's early folks. It's early enough that Marquis still has a low ERA. C'mon now!

[Keener98]

evertt shouldnt have even been still up to bat

 

But he was and its still Howrys job as our supposed best reliever to get him out. Hell anything but give up a home run to Adam Freakin Everett. Howry and Eyre have been horrible so far this year. Money well spent there.

 

7 games.... Give it a little more than a week into they year before we evaluate if it was money well spent.

 

The real comedy is in the game threads, after each win or loss they are either losing 100 games, or headed to the playoffs.

 

I dont care if its 7 games into the season. The point of the matter is that its absolutely ignorant to spend big money on relievers. They are not worth it considering you have just as good of a chance using somebody from your own system.

Just as good of a chance? How is it that minor league pitchers who failed as starters and thus were converted to relievers (for the most part) have just as good of a chance to be as good as a guy who has proven to be successful as a major league relief pitcher?

 

How many guys that are supposedly proven major league set up guys or closers started out as that? Over half the relievers in MLB were failed starters, and they are too hard to predict how they are going to perform year to year , hence why it is dumb to spend big money and big years on supposed proven relievers.

[Wilson A2000]

Because the big money guys that the Cubs got pitch lots of innings, have ERA's in the low 3's, and combine for over 40 holds.

 

Wait...

[Mizzou]

evertt shouldnt have even been still up to bat

 

But he was and its still Howrys job as our supposed best reliever to get him out. Hell anything but give up a home run to Adam Freakin Everett. Howry and Eyre have been horrible so far this year. Money well spent there.

 

7 games.... Give it a little more than a week into they year before we evaluate if it was money well spent.

 

The real comedy is in the game threads, after each win or loss they are either losing 100 games, or headed to the playoffs.

 

I dont care if its 7 games into the season. The point of the matter is that its absolutely ignorant to spend big money on relievers. They are not worth it considering you have just as good of a chance using somebody from your own system.

Just as good of a chance? How is it that minor league pitchers who failed as starters and thus were converted to relievers (for the most part) have just as good of a chance to be as good as a guy who has proven to be successful as a major league relief pitcher?

 

How many guys that are supposedly proven major league set up guys or closers started out as that? Over half the relievers in MLB were failed starters, and they are too hard to predict how they are going to perform year to year , hence why it is dumb to spend big money and big years on supposed proven relievers.

So you'd rather go into the season with a bullpen full of seven guys that have never thrown a big league pitch than a pen full of guys who have proven that they can get big league hitters out? I wouldn't. Nor would every single GM in baseball.

[KingCubsFan]

It's only been one week. Howry was our best reliever last year, and the inning today could have been much different if the ump hadn't missed that obvious strike. If you're a big market team like the Cubs, there's no reason why you shouldn't spend money on relievers who have proven themselves to be successful over multiple seasons. The problem is when you have a budget and you waste money on things you can fix in-house while sacrificing it in more important areas. Nothing wrong with a deep bullpen.

[Soriano12]

evertt shouldnt have even been still up to bat

 

word.

 

[/thread]

[abuck1220]

evertt shouldnt have even been still up to bat

 

But he was and its still Howrys job as our supposed best reliever to get him out. Hell anything but give up a home run to Adam Freakin Everett. Howry and Eyre have been horrible so far this year. Money well spent there.

 

7 games.... Give it a little more than a week into they year before we evaluate if it was money well spent.

 

The real comedy is in the game threads, after each win or loss they are either losing 100 games, or headed to the playoffs.

 

I dont care if its 7 games into the season. The point of the matter is that its absolutely ignorant to spend big money on relievers. They are not worth it considering you have just as good of a chance using somebody from your own system.

 

yeah we used a lot of guys from our own system last year, and they were God-awful. Howry is a good relief pitcher, even though half this board seems ready to bury him after two poor outings this year.

 

howry is a good pitcher...but is the difference between his low-mid 3 era and wuertz's mid-high 3 era worth $3.5 million?

 

and that pitch to everett was in no way a strike.

[Keener98]

evertt shouldnt have even been still up to bat

 

But he was and its still Howrys job as our supposed best reliever to get him out. Hell anything but give up a home run to Adam Freakin Everett. Howry and Eyre have been horrible so far this year. Money well spent there.

 

7 games.... Give it a little more than a week into they year before we evaluate if it was money well spent.

 

The real comedy is in the game threads, after each win or loss they are either losing 100 games, or headed to the playoffs.

 

I dont care if its 7 games into the season. The point of the matter is that its absolutely ignorant to spend big money on relievers. They are not worth it considering you have just as good of a chance using somebody from your own system.

Just as good of a chance? How is it that minor league pitchers who failed as starters and thus were converted to relievers (for the most part) have just as good of a chance to be as good as a guy who has proven to be successful as a major league relief pitcher?

 

How many guys that are supposedly proven major league set up guys or closers started out as that? Over half the relievers in MLB were failed starters, and they are too hard to predict how they are going to perform year to year , hence why it is dumb to spend big money and big years on supposed proven relievers.

So you'd rather go into the season with a bullpen full of seven guys that have never thrown a big league pitch than a pen full of guys who have proven that they can get big league hitters out? I wouldn't. Nor would every single GM in baseball.

 

Where did I say anything bout goin into a season with 7 guys who havent thrown a big league pitch? I said its dumb to spend big money and big years on ML relievers because they are so inconsistant. Giving out 3 year deals for relievers to me is not smart plain and simple. I know every bp isnt going to be built from your farm system but if your farm system is anything decent you should have enough quality arms down there that you can form most of your bp from that.

[oldstyle81]

evertt shouldnt have even been still up to bat

 

But he was and its still Howrys job as our supposed best reliever to get him out. Hell anything but give up a home run to Adam Freakin Everett. Howry and Eyre have been horrible so far this year. Money well spent there.

 

7 games.... Give it a little more than a week into they year before we evaluate if it was money well spent.

 

The real comedy is in the game threads, after each win or loss they are either losing 100 games, or headed to the playoffs.

 

I dont care if its 7 games into the season. The point of the matter is that its absolutely ignorant to spend big money on relievers. They are not worth it considering you have just as good of a chance using somebody from your own system.

 

yeah we used a lot of guys from our own system last year, and they were God-awful. Howry is a good relief pitcher, even though half this board seems ready to bury him after two poor outings this year.

 

howry is a good pitcher...but is the difference between his low-mid 3 era and wuertz's mid-high 3 era worth $3.5 million?

 

and that pitch to everett was in no way a strike.

 

what pitch were you watching

 

it that was in "no way" a strike, then the wild pitch was in no way a ball

[Backtobanks]

evertt shouldnt have even been still up to bat

 

But he was and its still Howrys job as our supposed best reliever to get him out. Hell anything but give up a home run to Adam Freakin Everett. Howry and Eyre have been horrible so far this year. Money well spent there.

 

7 games.... Give it a little more than a week into they year before we evaluate if it was money well spent.

The real comedy is in the game threads, after each win or loss they are either losing 100 games, or headed to the playoffs.

 

I totally agree. People were ready to trade Zambrano after the first game. It's a long season and what happens in the first month is sometimes the result of inclimate weather. Howry has been extremely consistent for the most part.

[Mizzou]

Where did I say anything bout goin into a season with 7 guys who havent thrown a big league pitch? I said its dumb to spend big money and big years on ML relievers because they are so inconsistant. Giving out 3 year deals for relievers to me is not smart plain and simple. I know every bp isnt going to be built from your farm system but if your farm system is anything decent you should have enough quality arms down there that you can form most of your bp from that.

Which teams, aside from the small market teams that have no other choice, do that?