Murton getting benched again for lesser player

[VanceJergins]

Just wanted to point something out:

 

In the games Murton has started, his line is .357/.400/.393. He's done very poorly as a PH and late-innings sub. In 9 PA, his line is .000/.111/.000.

 

So it seems that all the talk of Murton's struggles is greatly exaggerated and a role as a PH or late-inning sub just isn't his thing. He's tearing it up as a starter.

 

Murton also got a couple lucky IF hits and weak bloopers to drop. I wouldn't get too excited about his numbers as a starter.

 

Murton is struggling at the plate. That's pretty apparent if you watch him. First pitch hacking and failing to work the count really stand out with a player like Murton, who is a very good 2 strike hitter.

 

IMO, with such a small sample size, it's better to go off what you see with the naked eye than look at a player's stats.

 

However you want to look at it, if a .357 AVG and .400 OBP is Murton struggling, then look out world.

[CubinNY]

Just wanted to point something out:

 

In the games Murton has started, his line is .357/.400/.393. He's done very poorly as a PH and late-innings sub. In 9 PA, his line is .000/.111/.000.

 

So it seems that all the talk of Murton's struggles is greatly exaggerated and a role as a PH or late-inning sub just isn't his thing. He's tearing it up as a starter.

 

Murton also got a couple lucky IF hits and weak bloopers to drop. I wouldn't get too excited about his numbers as a starter.

 

Murton is struggling at the plate. That's pretty apparent if you watch him. First pitch hacking and failing to work the count really stand out with a player like Murton, who is a very good 2 strike hitter.

 

IMO, with such a small sample size, it's better to go off what you see with the naked eye than look at a player's stats.

 

However you want to look at it, if a .357 AVG and .400 OBP is Murton struggling, then look out world.

Exactly. One could make the case that he is struggling becuase of sporadic use and PHing. That sporadic use and PHing are a direct cause of Murton's struggles.

 

Put a young player in a position where he has to produce to "save" his job and he's going to get hacking.

[CubColtPacer]

 

However you want to look at it, if a .357 AVG and .400 OBP is Murton struggling, then look out world.

 

Exactly. One could make the case that he is struggling becuase of sporadic use and PHing. That sporadic use and PHing are a direct cause of Murton's struggles.

 

Put a young player in a position where he has to produce to "save" his job and he's going to get hacking.

 

Considering Murton's history from last year, I'm not so sure that's true. His job was safe until he started hacking too much, and then when he had to fight for playing time he became much more patient.

 

That same history though does give plenty of hope that he will work through this pretty soon, and I'm hoping (without being too upset if he doesn't) that he gets a good amount of the starts soon.

[VanceJergins]

 

However you want to look at it, if a .357 AVG and .400 OBP is Murton struggling, then look out world.

 

Exactly. One could make the case that he is struggling becuase of sporadic use and PHing. That sporadic use and PHing are a direct cause of Murton's struggles.

 

Put a young player in a position where he has to produce to "save" his job and he's going to get hacking.

 

Considering Murton's history from last year, I'm not so sure that's true. His job was safe until he started hacking too much, and then when he had to fight for playing time he became much more patient.

 

That same history though does give plenty of hope that he will work through this pretty soon, and I'm hoping (without being too upset if he doesn't) that he gets a good amount of the starts soon.

 

I'd prefer if he didn't try to work through his .357 AVG and .400 OBP. He needs to work on the power a little bit, but when he's started I've been very happy with what I've seen.

[RichHillIsABeast]

 

However you want to look at it, if a .357 AVG and .400 OBP is Murton struggling, then look out world.

 

Exactly. One could make the case that he is struggling becuase of sporadic use and PHing. That sporadic use and PHing are a direct cause of Murton's struggles.

 

Put a young player in a position where he has to produce to "save" his job and he's going to get hacking.

 

Considering Murton's history from last year, I'm not so sure that's true. His job was safe until he started hacking too much, and then when he had to fight for playing time he became much more patient.

 

That same history though does give plenty of hope that he will work through this pretty soon, and I'm hoping (without being too upset if he doesn't) that he gets a good amount of the starts soon.

 

I'd prefer if he didn't try to work through his .357 AVG and .400 OBP. He needs to work on the power a little bit, but when he's started I've been very happy with what I've seen.

 

I want some of whatever you're smoking. I haven't seen him tattoo a ball yet and I've watched every game.

[VanceJergins]

I want some of whatever you're smoking. I haven't seen him tattoo a ball yet and I've watched every game.

 

Then I'd like some of whatever Murton is smoking that makes him the luckiest player on the planet. .357/.400 without hitting the ball hard. Pass some of that to the rest of the team, Matty.

[CubColtPacer]

I want some of whatever you're smoking. I haven't seen him tattoo a ball yet and I've watched every game.

 

Then I'd like some of whatever Murton is smoking that makes him the luckiest player on the planet. .357/.400 without hitting the ball hard. Pass some of that to the rest of the team, Matty.

 

That lack of power is concerning. Not necessarily HR power (although a couple would be nice) but the ability to hit 2B's. Murton had 22 2B's and 3 3B's with 14 HR's last year. He only has one 2B this year, and that was a bloop the other day. He might be hitting the ball hard on the ground to get singles, but he's not driving the ball at all.

 

If he continues to not drive the ball combined with that poor walk rate, he's not going to be a productive corner outfielder. Do I expect that to continue? No, I'm sure he'll figure out a way soon to work through this-but that's why think he needs to work through some things.

[VanceJergins]

I want some of whatever you're smoking. I haven't seen him tattoo a ball yet and I've watched every game.

 

Then I'd like some of whatever Murton is smoking that makes him the luckiest player on the planet. .357/.400 without hitting the ball hard. Pass some of that to the rest of the team, Matty.

 

That lack of power is concerning. Not necessarily HR power (although a couple would be nice) but the ability to hit 2B's. Murton had 22 2B's and 3 3B's with 14 HR's last year. He only has one 2B this year, and that was a bloop the other day. He might be hitting the ball hard on the ground to get singles, but he's not driving the ball at all.

 

If he continues to not drive the ball combined with that poor walk rate, he's not going to be a productive corner outfielder. Do I expect that to continue? No, I'm sure he'll figure out a way soon to work through this-but that's why think he needs to work through some things.

 

Again, if .357/.400 is Murton struggling, then I think I'll be able to live with his production if he can get consistent playing time.

[TruffleShuffle]

I want some of whatever you're smoking. I haven't seen him tattoo a ball yet and I've watched every game.

 

Then I'd like some of whatever Murton is smoking that makes him the luckiest player on the planet. .357/.400 without hitting the ball hard. Pass some of that to the rest of the team, Matty.

 

That lack of power is concerning. Not necessarily HR power (although a couple would be nice) but the ability to hit 2B's. Murton had 22 2B's and 3 3B's with 14 HR's last year. He only has one 2B this year, and that was a bloop the other day. He might be hitting the ball hard on the ground to get singles, but he's not driving the ball at all.

 

If he continues to not drive the ball combined with that poor walk rate, he's not going to be a productive corner outfielder. Do I expect that to continue? No, I'm sure he'll figure out a way soon to work through this-but that's why think he needs to work through some things.

 

Again, if .357/.400 is Murton struggling, then I think I'll be able to live with his production if he can get consistent playing time.

 

I don't really like how you assume the "starting" Murton is the real Murton, and you the unproductive ABs from games that he didn't start.

[CubColtPacer]

I want some of whatever you're smoking. I haven't seen him tattoo a ball yet and I've watched every game.

 

Then I'd like some of whatever Murton is smoking that makes him the luckiest player on the planet. .357/.400 without hitting the ball hard. Pass some of that to the rest of the team, Matty.

 

That lack of power is concerning. Not necessarily HR power (although a couple would be nice) but the ability to hit 2B's. Murton had 22 2B's and 3 3B's with 14 HR's last year. He only has one 2B this year, and that was a bloop the other day. He might be hitting the ball hard on the ground to get singles, but he's not driving the ball at all.

 

If he continues to not drive the ball combined with that poor walk rate, he's not going to be a productive corner outfielder. Do I expect that to continue? No, I'm sure he'll figure out a way soon to work through this-but that's why think he needs to work through some things.

 

Again, if .357/.400 is Murton struggling, then I think I'll be able to live with his production if he can get consistent playing time.

 

Without driving the ball, he cannot sustain that .357/.400 line-if you look at his BABIP as a starter, it's extraordinarily high-which means that he's getting quite lucky right now for so many singles to fall in the way they have.

[VanceJergins]

I want some of whatever you're smoking. I haven't seen him tattoo a ball yet and I've watched every game.

 

Then I'd like some of whatever Murton is smoking that makes him the luckiest player on the planet. .357/.400 without hitting the ball hard. Pass some of that to the rest of the team, Matty.

 

That lack of power is concerning. Not necessarily HR power (although a couple would be nice) but the ability to hit 2B's. Murton had 22 2B's and 3 3B's with 14 HR's last year. He only has one 2B this year, and that was a bloop the other day. He might be hitting the ball hard on the ground to get singles, but he's not driving the ball at all.

 

If he continues to not drive the ball combined with that poor walk rate, he's not going to be a productive corner outfielder. Do I expect that to continue? No, I'm sure he'll figure out a way soon to work through this-but that's why think he needs to work through some things.

 

Again, if .357/.400 is Murton struggling, then I think I'll be able to live with his production if he can get consistent playing time.

 

I don't really like how you assume the "starting" Murton is the real Murton, and you the unproductive ABs from games that he didn't start.

 

So you think sporadic AB Murton is the real Murton? It seems pretty logical to put more focus on the AB's when he's started a game and getting consistent AB's. I'm sorry if you don't like the way I assess young players.

[VanceJergins]

I want some of whatever you're smoking. I haven't seen him tattoo a ball yet and I've watched every game.

 

Then I'd like some of whatever Murton is smoking that makes him the luckiest player on the planet. .357/.400 without hitting the ball hard. Pass some of that to the rest of the team, Matty.

 

That lack of power is concerning. Not necessarily HR power (although a couple would be nice) but the ability to hit 2B's. Murton had 22 2B's and 3 3B's with 14 HR's last year. He only has one 2B this year, and that was a bloop the other day. He might be hitting the ball hard on the ground to get singles, but he's not driving the ball at all.

 

If he continues to not drive the ball combined with that poor walk rate, he's not going to be a productive corner outfielder. Do I expect that to continue? No, I'm sure he'll figure out a way soon to work through this-but that's why think he needs to work through some things.

 

Again, if .357/.400 is Murton struggling, then I think I'll be able to live with his production if he can get consistent playing time.

 

Without driving the ball, he cannot sustain that .357/.400 line-if you look at his BABIP as a starter, it's extraordinarily high-which means that he's getting quite lucky right now for so many singles to fall in the way they have.

 

Ok, I'll give up the jig. I know Murton hasn't been amazing this year (I do think he's been good when given regular AB's, though). I'm just pointing out how ridiculous all the talk of Murton't tremendous struggle is. You can't really say that someone hitting .357/.400 when they start is lost at the plate.

[CubinNY]

I want some of whatever you're smoking. I haven't seen him tattoo a ball yet and I've watched every game.

 

Then I'd like some of whatever Murton is smoking that makes him the luckiest player on the planet. .357/.400 without hitting the ball hard. Pass some of that to the rest of the team, Matty.

 

That lack of power is concerning. Not necessarily HR power (although a couple would be nice) but the ability to hit 2B's. Murton had 22 2B's and 3 3B's with 14 HR's last year. He only has one 2B this year, and that was a bloop the other day. He might be hitting the ball hard on the ground to get singles, but he's not driving the ball at all.

 

If he continues to not drive the ball combined with that poor walk rate, he's not going to be a productive corner outfielder. Do I expect that to continue? No, I'm sure he'll figure out a way soon to work through this-but that's why think he needs to work through some things.

 

Again, if .357/.400 is Murton struggling, then I think I'll be able to live with his production if he can get consistent playing time.

 

Without driving the ball, he cannot sustain that .357/.400 line-if you look at his BABIP as a starter, it's extraordinarily high-which means that he's getting quite lucky right now for so many singles to fall in the way they have.

 

Ok, I'll give up the jig. I know Murton hasn't been amazing this year (I do think he's been good when given regular AB's, though). I'm just pointing out how ridiculous all the talk of Murton't tremendous struggle is. You can't really say that someone hitting .357/.400 when they start is lost at the plate.

 

You can if you put more faith in subjective distinctions like luck, looks, and driving the ball.

 

It's great fun.

 

I think the thing is that we really cannot say how Murton is doing because he hasn't played enough yet. However, we have a pretty sizable chunck of data from previous years that suggest how he could do if given more time.

 

Murton is not a big bopper (a run producer). That's his main problem with baseball men like Hendry and Lou.

[NewUserName]

Why is this all a how Murton is performing thing. Truth be told Floyd has not exactly been doing great since his hot start either.

[CubColtPacer]

I want some of whatever you're smoking. I haven't seen him tattoo a ball yet and I've watched every game.

 

Then I'd like some of whatever Murton is smoking that makes him the luckiest player on the planet. .357/.400 without hitting the ball hard. Pass some of that to the rest of the team, Matty.

 

That lack of power is concerning. Not necessarily HR power (although a couple would be nice) but the ability to hit 2B's. Murton had 22 2B's and 3 3B's with 14 HR's last year. He only has one 2B this year, and that was a bloop the other day. He might be hitting the ball hard on the ground to get singles, but he's not driving the ball at all.

 

If he continues to not drive the ball combined with that poor walk rate, he's not going to be a productive corner outfielder. Do I expect that to continue? No, I'm sure he'll figure out a way soon to work through this-but that's why think he needs to work through some things.

 

Again, if .357/.400 is Murton struggling, then I think I'll be able to live with his production if he can get consistent playing time.

 

Without driving the ball, he cannot sustain that .357/.400 line-if you look at his BABIP as a starter, it's extraordinarily high-which means that he's getting quite lucky right now for so many singles to fall in the way they have.

 

Ok, I'll give up the jig. I know Murton hasn't been amazing this year (I do think he's been good when given regular AB's, though). I'm just pointing out how ridiculous all the talk of Murton't tremendous struggle is. You can't really say that someone hitting .357/.400 when they start is lost at the plate.

 

You can if you put more faith in subjective distinctions like luck, looks, and driving the ball.

 

It's great fun.

 

I think the thing is that we really cannot say how Murton is doing because he hasn't played enough yet. However, we have a pretty sizable chunck of data from previous years that suggest how he could do if given more time.

 

Murton is not a big bopper (a run producer). That's his main problem with baseball men like Hendry and Lou.

 

First off, I would agree that there simply aren't enough at-bats to get a clear sample yet.

 

Second, I do not appreciate the thinly veiled sarcasm aimed at some of my posts. I am putting out an objective distinction, not a subjective one.

As a starter, Murton has been a singles hitter so far with a poor ISOD and a very high BABIP. If that does not change, then Murton will become more like Ryan Theriot offensively-which is not a level of production that a team can really afford from a corner outfielder spot. I am quite confident that Murton can make adjustments to increase his SLG and ISOD, which will offset the losses from his BABIP going down. I'm was just responding to the posts that said he has been doing well so far while starting and saying that if he continues to repeat his ISOD and ISOP, he will struggle.

[Fred Hornkohl]

The lastest numbers through Sunday........

 

04/02 - 04/22      AB    R    H   2B   3B   HR   TB  RBI   BB   SO     BA    OBP    SLG    OPS  BABIP
Murton             36    6   10    1    0    0   11    2    3    6  0.278  0.333  0.306  0.639  0.333
Floyd              46    6   12    2    0    1   17    6    1    5  0.261  0.277  0.370  0.646  0.275

 

btw.... Murton's BABIP last year was .331.

[CubColtPacer]

The lastest numbers through Sunday........

 

04/02 - 04/22      AB    R    H   2B   3B   HR   TB  RBI   BB   SO     BA    OBP    SLG    OPS  BABIP
Murton             36    6   10    1    0    0   11    2    3    6  0.278  0.333  0.306  0.639  0.333
Floyd              46    6   12    2    0    1   17    6    1    5  0.261  0.277  0.370  0.646  0.275

 

btw.... Murton's BABIP last year was .331.

 

Thanks Fred-yeah, I expect that Murton will be able to keep up his overall BABIP, just not his BABIP if you take out the 0/9 from his numbers (pinch-hitting and getting subbed into the game) like VJ was talking about.

[CubinNY]

Second, I do not appreciate the thinly veiled sarcasm aimed at some of my posts. I am putting out an objective distinction, not a subjective one.

As a starter, Murton has been a singles hitter so far with a poor ISOD and a very high BABIP. If that does not change, then Murton will become more like Ryan Theriot offensively-which is not a level of production that a team can really afford from a corner outfielder spot. I am quite confident that Murton can make adjustments to increase his SLG and ISOD, which will offset the losses from his BABIP going down. I'm was just responding to the posts that said he has been doing well so far while starting and saying that if he continues to repeat his ISOD and ISOP, he will struggle.

 

The thing is that the numbers don't mean a whole lot when there are so few opportunities. In other words it is premature to make any predictions about SLG, ISOD, ISOP, or BABIP.

 

Instead of looking at this year's data I think its better to look at the sum total of his previous work. He just hasn't seen enough playing time to know whats going.

 

That's why previously, I wrote that "one could make the case that...". There is no way to demonstrate anything with the numbers he's put up this year. However, talking about driving the ball, and watching every game mean very little to me. He hasn't hit for much power yet, but he hasn't hit much yet either.

[RegulusBlue]

Murton has tatooed some balls, it just so happens that they were outs. He has spanked some liners right at the LF and RF, and SS as well. His PH yesterday would have been a hit if it wasn't right at Miles.

 

All his lasers are outs so far, and he doesn't lift the ball much, so unless he tags it perfectly, its probably not going out.

 

If you want to whine that his BABIP is too high, and that he has no power, consider that every potential 2B has been poorly placed.

 

Also, the arguement about playing Murton over Floyd if they are both equal makes a lot of sense.

[RichHillIsABeast]

Why is this all a how Murton is performing thing. Truth be told Floyd has not exactly been doing great since his hot start either.

 

Floyd also smoked about 4-5 line drives that just happened to find defenders instead of going for base hits.

 

Luck affects small sample sizes a lot. It's better to just use your eyes in cases like this.

 

Floyd looked pretty bad in his last couple of games though, taking some real ugly swings.

 

Murton will outplay Floyd given the ABs. I don't doubt that at all.

[RegulusBlue]

Why is this all a how Murton is performing thing. Truth be told Floyd has not exactly been doing great since his hot start either.

 

Floyd also smoked about 4-5 line drives that just happened to find defenders instead of going for base hits.

 

Luck affects small sample sizes a lot. It's better to just use your eyes in cases like this.

 

Floyd looked pretty bad in his last couple of games though, taking some real ugly swings.

 

Murton will outplay Floyd given the ABs. I don't doubt that at all.

 

I agree with all of this. Somehow, I don't think Lou or Hendry do.

[moorecg]

Why is this all a how Murton is performing thing. Truth be told Floyd has not exactly been doing great since his hot start either.

 

Floyd also smoked about 4-5 line drives that just happened to find defenders instead of going for base hits.

 

Luck affects small sample sizes a lot. It's better to just use your eyes in cases like this.

 

Floyd looked pretty bad in his last couple of games though, taking some real ugly swings.

 

Murton will outplay Floyd given the ABs. I don't doubt that at all.

 

I agree with all of this. Somehow, I don't think Lou or Hendry do.

 

What bugs the hell out of me is all the "They love Murton" crap we hear from the media while he still doesn't ever seem to start. If he gets sent back down its plain stupid.

[Elrhino]

Average speed and below average defense with not much power do not equal superstar.

 

where is it being argued that murton is a superstar? we're arguing that he's better than floyd (who has average to below average speed and certainly below average defense now, as well).

 

So this is the official Northsidebaseball boogeyman of the 2007 season? A .820 OPS messageboard hero is getting a 60/40 split of at bats with a .800 OPS board persona non grata.

[NewUserName]

Average speed and below average defense with not much power do not equal superstar.

 

where is it being argued that murton is a superstar? we're arguing that he's better than floyd (who has average to below average speed and certainly below average defense now, as well).

 

So this is the official Northsidebaseball boogeyman of the 2007 season? A .820 OPS messageboard hero is getting a 60/40 split of at bats with a .800 OPS board persona non grata.

 

 

If we are talking about 2 25 year old players or 2 34 year old players than it would be a silly arguement. To say that Murton and Floyd are of equal value is ridiculous. Lets put them on the trade market and see who gets more value in return. The arguement is about the same ole same ole Cub philosophy of not letting young players play. We cannot get enough of other teams rejects. Truth is the Mets brought in Moises Alou to replace Cliff Floyd. This speaks volumns of how the Cubs are run.

[jersey cubs fan]

So Floyd is on pace to easily eclipse the PA threshold of 425 he needs to guarantee his 2008 salary. He's going to rack up bonuses for this year as well. I believe I heard the deal started at 1 year $3m guaranteed, but could be worth as much as $17m over 2 years. That right there should be reason enough to start sitting him more frequently, let alone his sub .300 OBP and 634 OPS.

 

Play him too much and you risk making the already dangerous payroll situation that much more unmanagable.