Maybe time to take a run at Ichiro?

[LuckyPup]

Before you get the pitchforks and torches after me, i was just thinking that Seattle has already been informed of Ichiro's desire to test free agency and quite frankly the M's have had a very nonchalant attitude about it- Adding Ichiro to hit behind Soriano would be insane- It will take a very good package to get him and then the question becomes,"Do we sign him to an extension, and can we afford that and Zambrano?" If he would agree to an extension what would you part with to get him?

 

I'd say Murton+J.Jones+Marshall+Gallagher for starters-

 

We havent lost much in that scenario other than Murton- Jones get moved plus his contract which the M's may like plus we lose 2 young arms that really may not pan out at all, or they could be very good- Hell, i would do that even for a one year rental( except Murton)-

 

If he signed an extension then Sori would move to LF and give Pie CF. You know Uncle Lou loves him some Ichiro:)

[Roast]

 

I'd say Murton+J.Jones+Marshall+Gallagher for starters-

 

 

I dont think I can say no fast enough.

[LuckyPup]

 

I'd say Murton+J.Jones+Marshall+Gallagher for starters-

 

 

I dont think I can say no fast enough.

really, wow, i understand the love of Murton's potential but you get a chance at a player of Ichiro's caliber you have to take it- i think you might be overvalueing Murtons Potential as well as Marshall and Gallagher- they are young unproven commodities- I think i couldnt say yes fast enough( if Ichiro wanted to sign an extension)

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Ichiro is one of the more overrated players in the game. There's no way he's worth that package.

[PrimeTime]

Ichiro is one of the more overrated players in the game. There's no way he's worth that package.

 

So your overrated if youve never batted lower than .300 in the majors and never had OBP lower than .350 ? and also one of the best outfielders in the game.

[CarolinaCubFan]

Before you get the pitchforks and torches after me, i was just thinking that Seattle has already been informed of Ichiro's desire to test free agency and quite frankly the M's have had a very nonchalant attitude about it- Adding Ichiro to hit behind Soriano would be insane- It will take a very good package to get him and then the question becomes,"Do we sign him to an extension, and can we afford that and Zambrano?" If he would agree to an extension what would you part with to get him?

 

I'd say Murton+J.Jones+Marshall+Gallagher for starters-

 

We havent lost much in that scenario other than Murton- Jones get moved plus his contract which the M's may like plus we lose 2 young arms that really may not pan out at all, or they could be very good- Hell, i would do that even for a one year rental( except Murton)-

 

If he signed an extension then Sori would move to LF and give Pie CF. You know Uncle Lou loves him some Ichiro:)

 

Uncle Lou also loves him some Arod as well, and Arod loves him some Uncle Lou.

 

Seriously though, I don't know that we have the budget to even afford Arod, but I'm trying to believe if he wants to come here, he'll work a way out for the Cubs to make it happen. I'd love to have Ichiro, but we have OF talent in the minors and plenty of OF's on the big league roster.

 

SS is to me what 3rd base used to be until we got Aram.

[Roast]

 

I'd say Murton+J.Jones+Marshall+Gallagher for starters-

 

 

I dont think I can say no fast enough.

really, wow, i understand the love of Murton's potential but you get a chance at a player of Ichiro's caliber you have to take it- i think you might be overvalueing Murtons Potential as well as Marshall and Gallagher- they are young unproven commodities- I think i couldnt say yes fast enough( if Ichiro wanted to sign an extension)

 

As TT said, he is one of the most overrated players in the game. I'm not denying he's good, because he is, but he's certainly not worth that package.

 

First of all, even though this will only be his 7th season in the big leagues, he'll be 34 at the end of this season. Furthermore, his numbers (once you look past his batting average, a non-so-important stat in itself) aren't anything truly special.

 

Here are his career (in the MLB) numbers (obp/slg/ops)

376/.438/.814

 

And actually, he hasnt broken an .800 ops since 2004.

 

By comparison, Matt Murton's career numbers are:

 

.370/.462/.832

Edited March 7, 2007 by Roast

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Ichiro is one of the more overrated players in the game. There's no way he's worth that package.

 

So your overrated if youve never batted lower than .300 in the majors and never had OBP lower than .350 ? and also one of the best outfielders in the game.

 

I didn't say he was a bad player, but the bolded is exactly my point. He's not one of the best outfielders in the game, not even close. It's questionable that he's in the top 30.

 

EDIT: Rereading it I think you were referring to defense, but the point remains about his offense. He's second tier when it comes to his offense. He's a player that relies a lot on speed and he's aging, and he's about to get his last big contract. Stay far away.

Edited March 7, 2007 by Transmogrified Tiger

[Roast]

double post. Edited March 7, 2007 by Roast

[Roast]

Ichiro is one of the more overrated players in the game. There's no way he's worth that package.

 

So your overrated if youve never batted lower than .300 in the majors and never had OBP lower than .350 ? and also one of the best outfielders in the game.

 

 

No, you're overrated when people make you out to be some amazing baseball god, when in reality you have numbers comparable to that of a player entering his 3rd year in the big leagues that most people consider to be "good".

 

 

EDIT: Man, I suck at catching mistakes...

[YearofDaCubs]

Ichiro would have been a nice acquisition years ago but not now at his age.

[Hosak8]

 

I'd say Murton+J.Jones+Marshall+Gallagher for starters-

 

 

I dont think I can say no fast enough.

really, wow, i understand the love of Murton's potential but you get a chance at a player of Ichiro's caliber you have to take it- i think you might be overvalueing Murtons Potential as well as Marshall and Gallagher- they are young unproven commodities- I think i couldnt say yes fast enough( if Ichiro wanted to sign an extension)

 

I think you will find that potential is almost always valued above production when it comes to our prospects.

[BigbadB]

There are not many players I would offer Murton, Jones, Marshall and Gallagher for. Ichiro is not one of them.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

 

I'd say Murton+J.Jones+Marshall+Gallagher for starters-

 

 

I dont think I can say no fast enough.

really, wow, i understand the love of Murton's potential but you get a chance at a player of Ichiro's caliber you have to take it- i think you might be overvalueing Murtons Potential as well as Marshall and Gallagher- they are young unproven commodities- I think i couldnt say yes fast enough( if Ichiro wanted to sign an extension)

 

I think you will find that potential is almost always valued above production when it comes to our prospects.

 

Murton: .297/.365/.444, 103 OPS+, 25 years old, making 6 figures and under team control until the 2012 season

 

Ichiro: .322/.370/.416, 109 OPS+, 33 years old, making 8 figures and a year away from Free Agency

 

And we're adding Jones, Gallagher, and Marshall?

[Hosak8]

 

I'd say Murton+J.Jones+Marshall+Gallagher for starters-

 

 

I dont think I can say no fast enough.

really, wow, i understand the love of Murton's potential but you get a chance at a player of Ichiro's caliber you have to take it- i think you might be overvalueing Murtons Potential as well as Marshall and Gallagher- they are young unproven commodities- I think i couldnt say yes fast enough( if Ichiro wanted to sign an extension)

 

I think you will find that potential is almost always valued above production when it comes to our prospects.

 

Murton: .297/.365/.444, 103 OPS+, 25 years old, making 6 figures and under team control until the 2012 season

 

Ichiro: .322/.370/.416, 109 OPS+, 33 years old, making 8 figures and a year away from Free Agency

 

And we're adding Jones, Gallagher, and Marshall?

 

Murton= platoon parter with Cliff Floyd.

 

Ichiro= actual protection in the lineup for Soriano.

 

Murton= average at best defense.

 

Ichiro= actuall improves our outfield defense, which might very well be atrocious this year.

 

Yeah, I see your point.

[YearofDaCubs]

 

I'd say Murton+J.Jones+Marshall+Gallagher for starters-

 

 

I dont think I can say no fast enough.

really, wow, i understand the love of Murton's potential but you get a chance at a player of Ichiro's caliber you have to take it- i think you might be overvalueing Murtons Potential as well as Marshall and Gallagher- they are young unproven commodities- I think i couldnt say yes fast enough( if Ichiro wanted to sign an extension)

 

I think you will find that potential is almost always valued above production when it comes to our prospects.

 

Murton: .297/.365/.444, 103 OPS+, 25 years old, making 6 figures and under team control until the 2012 season

 

Ichiro: .322/.370/.416, 109 OPS+, 33 years old, making 8 figures and a year away from Free Agency

 

And we're adding Jones, Gallagher, and Marshall?

That shows you how valuable Murton is and why he should be starting every day.

[Amazing_Grace]

Wasn't Ichiro discussed at considerable length about a month ago? Ichiro would be a good pickup, but not worth giving up Murton for. Ichiro is basically an older Murton with more speed but less power, who is more expensive now and will get a lot more expensive this offseason. No way do I trade Murton for Ichiro straight up, much less Murton AND Gallagher AND Marshall. Ichiro has played a grand total of 41 games in his career in CF, so there's no guarantee he'd be a better option than Soriano or Jones.

 

 

It will have to be a lot less than that before the deal looks good for the Cubs. I wouldn't give up Pie, Murton, Veal, or Gallagher. I might deal EPatt, Jones, and one of Marshall/Guzman/Mateo. If it got that low, I'd take a chance on Ichiro being good enough to hold down CF for a year. It would be a rental either way. With Murton and Soriano, I don't see an overpaid Ichiro being in our plans longer than this year.

Edited March 7, 2007 by Amazing_Grace

[BDWeav71]

There are not many players I would offer Murton, Jones, Marshall and Gallagher for. Ichiro is not one of them.

 

 

 

Agreed.

 

Cabrera, however, is one of those players.

[ChiCubsFan]

 

I'd say Murton+J.Jones+Marshall+Gallagher for starters-

 

 

I dont think I can say no fast enough.

really, wow, i understand the love of Murton's potential but you get a chance at a player of Ichiro's caliber you have to take it- i think you might be overvalueing Murtons Potential as well as Marshall and Gallagher- they are young unproven commodities- I think i couldnt say yes fast enough( if Ichiro wanted to sign an extension)

 

I think you will find that potential is almost always valued above production when it comes to our prospects.

 

Murton: .297/.365/.444, 103 OPS+, 25 years old, making 6 figures and under team control until the 2012 season

 

Ichiro: .322/.370/.416, 109 OPS+, 33 years old, making 8 figures and a year away from Free Agency

 

And we're adding Jones, Gallagher, and Marshall?

 

Murton= platoon parter with Cliff Floyd.

 

Ichiro= actual protection in the lineup for Soriano.

 

Murton= average at best defense.

 

Ichiro= actuall improves our outfield defense, which might very well be atrocious this year.

 

Yeah, I see your point.

 

You shouldnt be so rude when you make such a bad argument.

[Amazing_Grace]

There are not many players I would offer Murton, Jones, Marshall and Gallagher for. Ichiro is not one of them.

 

QFT

 

That's the kind of package you give up for an elite player at a high-demand position, say Tejada or ARod.

[Handlebar McSkullet]

You have to think... we all on this board, tend to overvalue our own prospects. With that being said, I doubt it would take that much to get Ichiro anyway. He is older, he is a fa, and I think he will leave Seatle anyway. And once someone said Murton AND Gallagher, I lost interest in the trade.

 

As far as Ichiro being overrated, his offensive prowess may be stretched a bit(or a lot). But make no mistake, that man is one amazing fielder.

[Roast]

 

 

Murton= platoon parter with Cliff Floyd.

 

Ichiro= actual protection in the lineup for Soriano.

 

Murton= average at best defense.

 

Ichiro= actually improves our outfield defense, which might very well be atrocious this year.

 

Yeah, I see your point.

 

First of all, how does the fact that our organization will most likely (wrongly) use Murton as a platoon player have anything to do with this argument? Furthermore, how does Ichiro provide "actual protection" while Murton obviously (by your logic) does not? They get on base at nearly the exact same rate!

 

And yes, Ichiro has a better defensive game than murton, but is that worth giving up Jones, Gallager, and Marshall for?

[Roast]

You have to think... we all on this board, tend to overvalue our own prospects. With that being said, I doubt it would take that much to get Ichiro anyway. He is older, he is a fa, and I think he will leave Seatle anyway. And once someone said Murton AND Gallagher, I lost interest in the trade.

 

As far as Ichiro being overrated, his offensive prowess may be stretched a bit(or a lot). But make no mistake, that man is one amazing fielder.

 

Murton is no longer a prospect! This will be his third year in the big leagues (second full). He has shown he can produce at the major league level (and, actually, get on base at nearly the same rate as ichiro).

 

It's not us overvaluing our prospects that makes this deal bad. This deal would be bad if we were only trading jones and murton.

 

EDIT: also, that quote in your sig is absolutely hysterical!

[Handlebar McSkullet]

You have to think... we all on this board, tend to overvalue our own prospects. With that being said, I doubt it would take that much to get Ichiro anyway. He is older, he is a fa, and I think he will leave Seatle anyway. And once someone said Murton AND Gallagher, I lost interest in the trade.

 

As far as Ichiro being overrated, his offensive prowess may be stretched a bit(or a lot). But make no mistake, that man is one amazing fielder.

 

Murton is no longer a prospect! This will be his third year in the big leagues (second full). He has shown he can produce at the major league level (and, actually, get on base at nearly the same rate as ichiro).

 

It's not us overvaluing our prospects that makes this deal bad. This deal would be bad if we were only trading jones and murton.

 

EDIT: also, that quote in your sig is absolutely hysterical!

 

Wojo at his best.

 

I meant that prospect statement in general, not Murton. I want all the world to know me as the guy who believes this: MURTON IS ACTUALLY THE HUMAN FORM OF ZEUS, BROUGHT DOWN FROM OLYMPUS TO PLEASURE US CUBS FANS WITH HIS AWESOMENESS. Aka. I think Murton is awesome, there are not a lot of MLB Players I would trade Murton for.

[oldstyle81]

some people in this thread make me want to hit my head on a wall