Lou on Dempster as closer

[98navigator]

Ya know, I'd really like Woody to eventually become the closer but the more I think about it the more I think it could be damaging to the inner workings of the team. The Cubs might have to trade Dempster if that happens because it's not like he's a perfect fit for setup if he can't close; Howry, Eyre, and Wuertz all see to be a better fit... If Dempster doesn't succeed at closer he could easily find himself unhappy in middle relief.

 

Lou's trying to pump up Demps confidence.

Daily Herald

 

“He’s got good stuff...” “I think he probably lost confidence in himself. The team was struggling a little bit. When they finally got save opportunities, he put a lot of pressure on himself.

 

“But look, that’s the good thing about a new season. Hope springs eternal. You work hard, and you put that behind you and you get ready for a new championship season, and that’s what he’s doing.”

 

I don't think Dusty ever used the words "championship season." Hmmm, I don't think any of our most recent managers have...

 

“We’ve said that the job is his, and we’ve got full confidence that he’s going to bounce back and pitch the way he did the prior years,”

[cheapseats]

Dempster shouldn't ever pitch to a left-handed hitter in the ninth inning or any other inning.

 

If not Wuertz, Howry should close and Dempster should be used against righties only.

 

Unless Dempster adds a pitch that's effective against lefties, he's a ROOGY.

[98navigator]

I don't see how that's going to work. Either he's the closer or he isn't; closer by committee is not a good thing. That's why I can see potential issues if he fails--not about filling the closer's role, because there are other guys who can do it, but about Dempster's role if he can't...

[oldstyle81]

Its only a matter of time in my opinon before Wood (if healthy) gets the job

 

I know id much rather have Wood at his best in the 9th over Dempster at his best

[Magnetic Curses]

if dempster can't close, then i don't want him anywhere in the pen. he'll need to be shipped somewhere and have most of his contract absorbed.

[oldstyle81]

if dempster can't close, then i don't want him anywhere in the pen. he'll need to be shipped somewhere and have most of his contract absorbed.

 

pretty much, if he is going to throw away games like last year, then its better to ship him

 

the cubs very well couldve been a 76 win team last year if it wasant for Dempster blowing all those saves

[CuseCubFan69]

if dempster can't close, then i don't want him anywhere in the pen. he'll need to be shipped somewhere and have most of his contract absorbed.

 

pretty much, if he is going to throw away games like last year, then its better to ship him

 

the cubs very well couldve been a 76 win team last year if it wasant for Dempster blowing all those saves

 

And screwed up that #3 pick!

[98navigator]

if dempster can't close, then i don't want him anywhere in the pen. he'll need to be shipped somewhere and have most of his contract absorbed.

 

That's seems like the likely answer. If he can't close he desn't fit in elsewhere.

[David]

Its only a matter of time in my opinon before Wood (if healthy) gets the job

 

I know id much rather have Wood at his best in the 9th over Dempster at his best

 

Maybe, but I'd rather have Wood at his best in the 7th or 8th with runners on than in the 9th with nobody on.

[oldstyle81]

Its only a matter of time in my opinon before Wood (if healthy) gets the job

 

I know id much rather have Wood at his best in the 9th over Dempster at his best

 

Maybe, but I'd rather have Wood at his best in the 7th or 8th with runners on than in the 9th with nobody on.

 

thats what eyre and howry and wuertz are for.

[David]

Its only a matter of time in my opinon before Wood (if healthy) gets the job

 

I know id much rather have Wood at his best in the 9th over Dempster at his best

 

Maybe, but I'd rather have Wood at his best in the 7th or 8th with runners on than in the 9th with nobody on.

 

thats what eyre and howry and wuertz are for.

 

Sure, they can do it. But Wood, at his best, is better than any of them.

 

The notion that your best reliever should be your closer is a myth, or a misconception, at best.

[Soul]

I'd love to be suprised and see Dempster come back to form, but I'm struggling to find closers who collapsed and then returned to form so quickly -- within half a season.

 

I know Mesa, but he took years.

[oldstyle81]

Its only a matter of time in my opinon before Wood (if healthy) gets the job

 

I know id much rather have Wood at his best in the 9th over Dempster at his best

 

Maybe, but I'd rather have Wood at his best in the 7th or 8th with runners on than in the 9th with nobody on.

 

thats what eyre and howry and wuertz are for.

 

Sure, they can do it. But Wood, at his best, is better than any of them.

 

The notion that your best reliever should be your closer is a myth, or a misconception, at best.

 

yet it means nothing if wood holds them in the 8th and dempster loses it in the 9th

[David]

Its only a matter of time in my opinon before Wood (if healthy) gets the job

 

I know id much rather have Wood at his best in the 9th over Dempster at his best

 

Maybe, but I'd rather have Wood at his best in the 7th or 8th with runners on than in the 9th with nobody on.

 

thats what eyre and howry and wuertz are for.

 

Sure, they can do it. But Wood, at his best, is better than any of them.

 

The notion that your best reliever should be your closer is a myth, or a misconception, at best.

 

yet it means nothing if wood holds them in the 8th and dempster loses it in the 9th

 

That's true of any inning with any pitcher, not just the 9th and the closer.

[oldstyle81]

Its only a matter of time in my opinon before Wood (if healthy) gets the job

 

I know id much rather have Wood at his best in the 9th over Dempster at his best

 

Maybe, but I'd rather have Wood at his best in the 7th or 8th with runners on than in the 9th with nobody on.

 

thats what eyre and howry and wuertz are for.

 

Sure, they can do it. But Wood, at his best, is better than any of them.

 

The notion that your best reliever should be your closer is a myth, or a misconception, at best.

 

yet it means nothing if wood holds them in the 8th and dempster loses it in the 9th

 

That's true of any inning with any pitcher, not just the 9th and the closer.

 

yes but it means nothing if the pitcher in the 9th cant hold a lead, kinda like Dempster

[David]

Its only a matter of time in my opinon before Wood (if healthy) gets the job

 

I know id much rather have Wood at his best in the 9th over Dempster at his best

 

Maybe, but I'd rather have Wood at his best in the 7th or 8th with runners on than in the 9th with nobody on.

 

thats what eyre and howry and wuertz are for.

 

Sure, they can do it. But Wood, at his best, is better than any of them.

 

The notion that your best reliever should be your closer is a myth, or a misconception, at best.

 

yet it means nothing if wood holds them in the 8th and dempster loses it in the 9th

 

That's true of any inning with any pitcher, not just the 9th and the closer.

 

yes but it means nothing if the pitcher in the 9th cant hold a lead, kinda like Dempster

 

Ok. But the solution is to have someone pitch the 9th who can hold a lead.

 

The solution isn't to put your best pitcher in for a relatively easy 9th inning situation.

[CubColtPacer]

Being a closer is more about mental toughness than anything. Most teams best relievers are their closers, because those relievers are good against all types of hitters and have the mental toughness needed. However, the Cubs are in a situation where 3-4 of their relievers have all the capabilities to be a closer. With that, they don't necessarily need their best pitcher back there, but can rather use their best pitcher in other situations. If Dempster bounces back at all he should be fine back there.

[mg420]

Its only a matter of time in my opinon before Wood (if healthy) gets the job

 

I know id much rather have Wood at his best in the 9th over Dempster at his best

 

Maybe, but I'd rather have Wood at his best in the 7th or 8th with runners on than in the 9th with nobody on.

 

thats what eyre and howry and wuertz are for.

 

Sure, they can do it. But Wood, at his best, is better than any of them.

 

The notion that your best reliever should be your closer is a myth, or a misconception, at best.

 

yet it means nothing if wood holds them in the 8th and dempster loses it in the 9th

 

That's true of any inning with any pitcher, not just the 9th and the closer.

 

yes but it means nothing if the pitcher in the 9th cant hold a lead, kinda like Dempster

demspter didnt seem to have a problem holding the lead in 2005 when he went 33/35 in saves with an era around 2.

[oldstyle81]

Its only a matter of time in my opinon before Wood (if healthy) gets the job

 

I know id much rather have Wood at his best in the 9th over Dempster at his best

 

Maybe, but I'd rather have Wood at his best in the 7th or 8th with runners on than in the 9th with nobody on.

 

thats what eyre and howry and wuertz are for.

 

Sure, they can do it. But Wood, at his best, is better than any of them.

 

The notion that your best reliever should be your closer is a myth, or a misconception, at best.

 

yet it means nothing if wood holds them in the 8th and dempster loses it in the 9th

 

That's true of any inning with any pitcher, not just the 9th and the closer.

 

yes but it means nothing if the pitcher in the 9th cant hold a lead, kinda like Dempster

demspter didnt seem to have a problem holding the lead in 2005 when he went 33/35 in saves with an era around 2.

 

Jason Marquis went 15-7 with a 3.71 ERA in 2004

Cesar Izturis batted .288 with a OBP of .330 in 2004

 

the point is, the freshest sample of data says Dempster blew 9 saves in 2006 compared to 2 in 2005

[cheapseats]

I don't see how that's going to work. Either he's the closer or he isn't;

 

Then he shouldn't be. How many closers can only get out right-handed batters?

 

Here's how he's done against lefties from 1998 to 2006 (in reverse order, so the 2006 season is first):

 

BAA OBP SLG OPS

.310 .395 .444 .839

.278 .394 .368 .762

.222 .417 .370 .787

.300 .410 .493 .903

.332 .440 .550 .991

.270 .368 .448 .816

.245 .342 .414 .756

.282 .389 .466 .855

.394 .500 .596 1.096

 

Righties average about 200 fewer points of OPS against Dempster, so he does have good value against them, but sending him into a 9th inning to face Hatteberg-Griffey-Encarnacion-Dunn verges on conceding the game. Same with Jenkins-Fielder-Hart-Koskie.

 

closer by committee is not a good thing.

 

I'm not even advocating "closer by committee," but it bears mentioning that the idea that "closer by committee" doesn't work is treated like a truism by sports talk radio when there's little or no evidence that such is the case. How in the world did any team ever get outs 25-27 before Tony Larussa blessed us with "the closer?"

 

That's why I can see potential issues if he fails--not about filling the closer's role, because there are other guys who can do it, but about Dempster's role if he can't...

 

Dempster's role would be to get out right-handed batters. If he has "issues" with that - tough.

[mg420]

Its only a matter of time in my opinon before Wood (if healthy) gets the job

 

I know id much rather have Wood at his best in the 9th over Dempster at his best

 

Maybe, but I'd rather have Wood at his best in the 7th or 8th with runners on than in the 9th with nobody on.

 

thats what eyre and howry and wuertz are for.

 

Sure, they can do it. But Wood, at his best, is better than any of them.

 

The notion that your best reliever should be your closer is a myth, or a misconception, at best.

 

yet it means nothing if wood holds them in the 8th and dempster loses it in the 9th

 

That's true of any inning with any pitcher, not just the 9th and the closer.

 

yes but it means nothing if the pitcher in the 9th cant hold a lead, kinda like Dempster

demspter didnt seem to have a problem holding the lead in 2005 when he went 33/35 in saves with an era around 2.

 

Jason Marquis went 15-7 with a 3.71 ERA in 2004

Cesar Izturis batted .288 with a OBP of .330 in 2004

 

the point is, the freshest sample of data says Dempster blew 9 saves in 2006 compared to 2 in 2005

 

good thing players are a little more than "sample data". dempster has proven he has the stuff to close and there is no reason he cant do so effectively in 2007. the same goes for marquis & izturis having good years. they have the ability if they can stay healthy.

[oldstyle81]

Its only a matter of time in my opinon before Wood (if healthy) gets the job

 

I know id much rather have Wood at his best in the 9th over Dempster at his best

 

Maybe, but I'd rather have Wood at his best in the 7th or 8th with runners on than in the 9th with nobody on.

 

thats what eyre and howry and wuertz are for.

 

Sure, they can do it. But Wood, at his best, is better than any of them.

 

The notion that your best reliever should be your closer is a myth, or a misconception, at best.

 

yet it means nothing if wood holds them in the 8th and dempster loses it in the 9th

 

That's true of any inning with any pitcher, not just the 9th and the closer.

 

yes but it means nothing if the pitcher in the 9th cant hold a lead, kinda like Dempster

demspter didnt seem to have a problem holding the lead in 2005 when he went 33/35 in saves with an era around 2.

 

Jason Marquis went 15-7 with a 3.71 ERA in 2004

Cesar Izturis batted .288 with a OBP of .330 in 2004

 

the point is, the freshest sample of data says Dempster blew 9 saves in 2006 compared to 2 in 2005

 

good thing players are a little more than "sample data". dempster has proven he has the stuff to close and there is no reason he cant do so effectively in 2007. the same goes for marquis & izturis having good years. they have the ability if they can stay healthy.

 

i hope he does well dont get me wrong but baseball has always been a sport of what have you done for me lately.

[A New Era]

I'd love to be suprised and see Dempster come back to form, but I'm struggling to find closers who collapsed and then returned to form so quickly -- within half a season.

 

I know Mesa, but he took years.

 

Well you'd have to look at teams that had a 96 loss season and then spend $300 million in the offseason after that. This case is unique.

[CaliforniaRaisin]

I'd love to be suprised and see Dempster come back to form, but I'm struggling to find closers who collapsed and then returned to form so quickly -- within half a season.

 

I know Mesa, but he took years.

 

Well you'd have to look at teams that had a 96 loss season and then spend $300 million in the offseason after that. This case is unique.

 

What does the W-L record and offseason spending have to do with Dempster's struggles and possibilities of returning to form?

[A New Era]

I'd love to be suprised and see Dempster come back to form, but I'm struggling to find closers who collapsed and then returned to form so quickly -- within half a season.

 

I know Mesa, but he took years.

 

Well you'd have to look at teams that had a 96 loss season and then spend $300 million in the offseason after that. This case is unique.

 

What does the W-L record and offseason spending have to do with Dempster's struggles and possibilities of returning to form?

 

Number of save opportunities. Number of times Dempster was not allowed to pitch for days on end. Remember we've all talked about this before. Adding $300 million worth of players also raises the regularity Dempster will be used because they will be leading in more ballgames. . And an overall higher confidence in all the players because they KNOW they are much improved.