Big Z will leave

[CubColtPacer]

what actually is this years budget, soriono is not getting paid 130 mill this year. Knowing that what is the true per this year expenditure on labor in the dugout. (not including the towel boy)

 

Nobody knows exactly, but it seems to be somewhere around 115 million (that includes around 13.5 million for Z this year).

[CubColtPacer]

Have I missed something? I haven't seen anything that would even suggest that they don't want to sign Z over concern over the budget in the next couple years (2007, 2008, 2009)-so where is this all coming from about Hendry not knowing if there's money left for Z?

 

What exactly is the hold up, then?

 

The same holdup as Lee and Ramirez-negotiations. Hendry is trying to get the best deal he can, and sometimes that involves not locking up the player immediately. Plus, there are always a million details to work out. If Hendry had lowballed them, don't you think Z would have come out with that to get sympathy? They are probably a couple million and a year or two apart right now, and they are playing a little chicken and seeing which side breaks first.

[hardcorecubfan]

what actually is this years budget, soriono is not getting paid 130 mill this year. Knowing that what is the true per this year expenditure on labor in the dugout. (not including the towel boy)

 

Nobody knows exactly, but it seems to be somewhere around 115 million (that includes around 13.5 million for Z this year).

 

I was worried there that we actually outspent the Yankees. If were not near that point give the guy the cash (not my money)

[Mizzou]

Have I missed something? I haven't seen anything that would even suggest that they don't want to sign Z over concern over the budget in the next couple years (2007, 2008, 2009)-so where is this all coming from about Hendry not knowing if there's money left for Z?

 

What exactly is the hold up, then?

Hammering out the details?

 

People straight flipped out when midnight passed and Aramis wasn't signed. I didn't even bother coming here to see what people were saying, just because I didn't feel any desire to read the ridiculous drivel that was likely spewed. Just because Hendry doesn't announce an extension the day after Zambrano demands one doesn't mean that he's not close to signing him.

[BigbadB]

Have you checked out the payroll thread in Transactions. That thread has the Cubs capped out at 115m already, and a ton of money already allocated to just a small handful of players in 2008 and 2009.

 

Now Z is tossing out ultimatums. I don't see anything unreasonable about worrying that the Cubs won't have what's needed to resign Zambrano. There's injury concern and Hendry has been known not to be a big fan of giving a pitcher a long term contract like Zambrano wants.

 

And, 18m a year for a guy who will pitch 33-35 games a year is a lot of money.

[CubColtPacer]

Have you checked out the payroll thread in Transactions. That thread has the Cubs capped out at 115m already, and a ton of money already allocated to just a small handful of players in 2008 and 2009.

 

Now Z is tossing out ultimatums. I don't see anything unreasonable about worrying that the Cubs won't have what's needed to resign Zambrano. There's injury concern and Hendry has been known not to be a big fan of giving a pitcher a long term contract like Zambrano wants.

 

And, 18m a year for a guy who will pitch 33-35 games a year is a lot of money.

 

See, that's a different story. The Cubs have the money to re-sign Z-now if they want to sign him for the money he's demanding, that might not happen. It won't be because of Lilly or Marquis's contracts though-if the Cubs let a pitcher like Z go, it's because Hendry won't give him 18 million, or a 7 year deal, or because of his injury risk, but not because he suddenly forgot that he had to sign Z when he went on his spending spree during the offseason.

[BigbadB]

People straight flipped out when midnight passed and Aramis wasn't signed. I didn't even bother coming here to see what people were saying, just because I didn't feel any desire to read the ridiculous drivel that was likely spewed. Just because Hendry doesn't announce an extension the day after Zambrano demands one doesn't mean that he's not close to signing him.

 

We Cub fans have been tortured enough over the years. We really don't need midnight deadline deals added to the mix.

 

If there is hope to get him signed, just get it done. Let's hear in the paper tomorrow that a long term deal is being hammered out instead of ultimatums threatening to leave at season's end if a contract isn't done before the season starts.

 

If you were able to feel uber confident that Aramis would be signed, you have more willpower than most. I'm thinking they decided midnight in Hawaii was the deadline, because it went well past the deadline with no word on whether he was signed or not.

 

And I can't give the highest marks to Hendry's storied career as a Cub GM, so pardon my skepticism on re-signing Zambrano.

[CaliforniaRaisin]

I don't see how the Cubs won't be able to afford Z unless his contract demands go out the roof.

[SouthSideRyan]

Have I missed something? I haven't seen anything that would even suggest that they don't want to sign Z over concern over the budget in the next couple years (2007, 2008, 2009)-so where is this all coming from about Hendry not knowing if there's money left for Z?

 

What exactly is the hold up, then?

 

This is absurd. Whenever teams have money to sign guys they just do it immediately, irrelevant to whether they're paying him 10M per year more than they have to?

[VVMattVV]

Following on some of the points made above, I think earlier on I advocated sending Z, Eyre and Izturis to NY for ARod and a prospect. That sounds like a pretty good deal to me.

 

And BTW, Big Slick, you simply cannot compare Wood's deal 3 yrs ago to Z's current demands. Put simply, "square peg meets round hole."

 

I wasn't comparing the deals, I was comparing the attitudes people have of Wood and Zambrano.

 

Also, I'm not entirely opposed to giving Zambrano Zito money, the man deserves it. He's what, 26? Jesus guys.

 

I'd give it to him too. The question is, does Hendry have it to give to Zambrano? After giving the big money out to all these other guys, I'm not so sure he has the money to offer Z.

 

He had an opportunity to lock up Zambrano before he paid out money to Lilly, Floyd and Marquis. He didn't do it. Now he risks losing him to someone WHO WILL give Zambrano Zito money next year, maybe more.

 

If that happens, should Hendry lose his job? Absolutely.

 

My desire to trade Zambrano now is only to attempt to get more than a couple of draft picks when Zambrano leaves. I believe Zambrano won't be back if he isn't signed before this season starts. No way will the Cubs be able to outbid the Yankees.

 

I agree with this. To sign Lilly and Marquis without knowing for a fact that you still had money for Zambrano is unforgivable in and of itself. This blunder alone would cost any MLB GM his job, and Hendry is a guy that should, IMHO, have been fired earlier. If this goes down the way I fear it will, with Z walking for draft choices and no Cub WS in 2007, Hendry will, and should, go down as one of the worst GMs in Cubs history.

Being one of the worst GMs in Cubs history is akin to being one of the whitest players to play basketball at Duke. Every new crop wants to top the actions of their predecessor.

I honestly don't know how it works, but I remember in Moneyball, Billy Beane called up his owner for some extra cash to sign someone.

 

Unless it was a different incident, I think he tried to get extra cash for Rincon. Didn't Beane end up dealing one of his left handed relievers to a NL team to free up payroll? I remember Beane was even willing to go as far as to sacrificing his own money to make the deal work, although it never came down to it.

[Guest]

This one's for Sulley...

 

Z is Venezuelan. I think Chavez had a talk with him over the winter about "sticking it to the capitalist pigs" and that's why Carlos is playing hardball. :D

[nilodnayr]

Have I missed something? I haven't seen anything that would even suggest that they don't want to sign Z over concern over the budget in the next couple years (2007, 2008, 2009)-so where is this all coming from about Hendry not knowing if there's money left for Z?

 

What exactly is the hold up, then?

 

The same holdup as Lee and Ramirez-negotiations. Hendry is trying to get the best deal he can, and sometimes that involves not locking up the player immediately. Plus, there are always a million details to work out. If Hendry had lowballed them, don't you think Z would have come out with that to get sympathy? They are probably a couple million and a year or two apart right now, and they are playing a little chicken and seeing which side breaks first.

 

A) If thats the case, then how did Sori get done in like 0.2 nanoseconds

 

B) Hendry has said that even on the arbi case they are significantly far apart and even thinks it might go before the arbitrator. If they arent even within a couple million on a one year deal, how can they be within a couple million on a 7 year deal?

 

I would say you are taking about as extreme of an optimistic viewpoint you can take.

[CubColtPacer]

Have I missed something? I haven't seen anything that would even suggest that they don't want to sign Z over concern over the budget in the next couple years (2007, 2008, 2009)-so where is this all coming from about Hendry not knowing if there's money left for Z?

 

What exactly is the hold up, then?

 

The same holdup as Lee and Ramirez-negotiations. Hendry is trying to get the best deal he can, and sometimes that involves not locking up the player immediately. Plus, there are always a million details to work out. If Hendry had lowballed them, don't you think Z would have come out with that to get sympathy? They are probably a couple million and a year or two apart right now, and they are playing a little chicken and seeing which side breaks first.

 

A) If thats the case, then how did Sori get done in like 0.2 nanoseconds

 

B) Hendry has said that even on the arbi case they are significantly far apart and even thinks it might go before the arbitrator. If they arent even within a couple million on a one year deal, how can they be within a couple million on a 7 year deal?

 

I would say you are taking about as extreme of an optimistic viewpoint you can take.

 

Sori got done because the team was desperate-they knew if they didn't pay it, somebody would. Z might give them a slight hometown discount only because he doesn't know what the other offers for him might be (he can estimate, but not like Soriano could) and there is still over a month till opening day.

 

I haven't seen those Hendry comments on the arbitration-it's possible the club may go to arbitration because if the club wins it, that will be a big point in their favor in contract negotiations.

 

I have no idea if they are close or not-all I know is that Hendry did not just forget about Z-he has the money, it's just his decision if he is going to give Z what he asks or if he decides it is too much money and either trades him or lets him walk after the season.

[Sammy Sofa]

Have I missed something? I haven't seen anything that would even suggest that they don't want to sign Z over concern over the budget in the next couple years (2007, 2008, 2009)-so where is this all coming from about Hendry not knowing if there's money left for Z?

 

What exactly is the hold up, then?

 

The same holdup as Lee and Ramirez-negotiations. Hendry is trying to get the best deal he can, and sometimes that involves not locking up the player immediately. Plus, there are always a million details to work out. If Hendry had lowballed them, don't you think Z would have come out with that to get sympathy? They are probably a couple million and a year or two apart right now, and they are playing a little chicken and seeing which side breaks first.

 

A) If thats the case, then how did Sori get done in like 0.2 nanoseconds

 

How is that even comparable? Soriano was a free agent with any number of teams out to get him. Zambrano is locked up by the Cubs right now. They have the time to work with Zambrano because of that.

[nilodnayr]

Have I missed something? I haven't seen anything that would even suggest that they don't want to sign Z over concern over the budget in the next couple years (2007, 2008, 2009)-so where is this all coming from about Hendry not knowing if there's money left for Z?

 

What exactly is the hold up, then?

 

The same holdup as Lee and Ramirez-negotiations. Hendry is trying to get the best deal he can, and sometimes that involves not locking up the player immediately. Plus, there are always a million details to work out. If Hendry had lowballed them, don't you think Z would have come out with that to get sympathy? They are probably a couple million and a year or two apart right now, and they are playing a little chicken and seeing which side breaks first.

 

A) If thats the case, then how did Sori get done in like 0.2 nanoseconds

 

B) Hendry has said that even on the arbi case they are significantly far apart and even thinks it might go before the arbitrator. If they arent even within a couple million on a one year deal, how can they be within a couple million on a 7 year deal?

 

I would say you are taking about as extreme of an optimistic viewpoint you can take.

 

Sori got done because the team was desperate-they knew if they didn't pay it, somebody would. Z might give them a slight hometown discount only because he doesn't know what the other offers for him might be (he can estimate, but not like Soriano could) and there is still over a month till opening day.

 

I haven't seen those Hendry comments on the arbitration-it's possible the club may go to arbitration because if the club wins it, that will be a big point in their favor in contract negotiations.

 

I have no idea if they are close or not-all I know is that Hendry did not just forget about Z-he has the money, it's just his decision if he is going to give Z what he asks or if he decides it is too much money and either trades him or lets him walk after the season.

 

Really? Z said he wants Zito money, nothing more, nothing less. Its quite clear that other teams would pay him that if not more. That is obviously a hometown discount. Other teams cannot talk to Z, but he has to believe that. Sori was a FA and was talking to other teams, but we had to blow their offers out of the water for him to sign so quickly.

 

Its never good to go to abritration with your players as you have to make your case that hes not worth what he is asking for, it doesnt make for good relations. Especially if you want to resign him long term. Can you think of any player that went to arbitration before his walk year and signed him long term?

[Mizzou]

People straight flipped out when midnight passed and Aramis wasn't signed. I didn't even bother coming here to see what people were saying, just because I didn't feel any desire to read the ridiculous drivel that was likely spewed. Just because Hendry doesn't announce an extension the day after Zambrano demands one doesn't mean that he's not close to signing him.

 

We Cub fans have been tortured enough over the years. We really don't need midnight deadline deals added to the mix.

 

If there is hope to get him signed, just get it done. Let's hear in the paper tomorrow that a long term deal is being hammered out instead of ultimatums threatening to leave at season's end if a contract isn't done before the season starts.

Hate to break it to you, but there are deadlines and behind closed doors negotiations in the business world. You getting upset because Hendry doesn't publicly lay out his plan is almost laughable.

[RichHillIsABeast]

Hopefully Z completely retracts his statement on WGN. He sounded completely different at the Convention, so hopefully it was just a misunderstanding.

 

I still don't think he's worth 18MM/7 years though. Not with the PAP on his arm.

[Backtobanks]

Hopefully Z completely retracts his statement on WGN. He sounded completely different at the Convention, so hopefully it was just a misunderstanding.

 

I still don't think he's worth 18MM/7 years though. Not with the PAP on his arm.

 

No pitcher is worth $18 million/7 years. Unfortunately this is where the market has taken them.

[RichHillIsABeast]

Hopefully Z completely retracts his statement on WGN. He sounded completely different at the Convention, so hopefully it was just a misunderstanding.

 

I still don't think he's worth 18MM/7 years though. Not with the PAP on his arm.

 

No pitcher is worth $18 million/7 years. Unfortunately this is where the market has taken them.

 

If that's where the market is, we need to stay out, like Williams did.

[BigbadB]

Hate to break it to you, but there are deadlines and behind closed doors negotiations in the business world. You getting upset because Hendry doesn't publicly lay out his plan is almost laughable.

 

Sorry to do this to you, but.... :roll:

 

You're talking to me like I was just born yesterday. I've been watching baseball regularly since 1971. This was before free agency became what it is. I didn't like free agency then, and I still don't like it now.

 

But, I really don't need you talking down to me. You have a difference of opinion? Fine. I'm cool with that. Disagree if you want. But please refrain from the "holier than thou" routine. It adds nothing to the debate.

 

And actually, if you stayed away from the Aramis thread because of the same reactions you're seeing here, why are you even bothering with this thread?

[NCCubFan]

I've been watching baseball regularly since 1971.

Newbie! I've been watching since 1969. :D

[BigbadB]

I've been watching baseball regularly since 1971.

Newbie! I've been watching since 1969. :D

 

Old fart. I was 5 in 1969. And I'm quite thankful I never endured the 1969 season. Just reading about it is unbelievable.

[CuseCubFan69]

I've been watching baseball regularly since 1971.

Newbie! I've been watching since 1969. :D

 

Old fart. I was 5 in 1969. And I'm quite thankful I never endured the 1969 season. Just reading about it is unbelievable.

 

69 was glorious until August. God I still hate the Mets and living in NY just rubbed it my face just that much more.

[NCCubFan]

Old fart.

That comment reminds me of the cubs.com days (before it went downhill) when Ernie59 and ZipDog kept going back and forth about age.

[CuseCubFan69]

Old fart.

That comment reminds me of the cubs.com days (before it went downhill) when Ernie59 and ZipDog kept going back and forth about age.

 

I miss those guys. I wonder if ernie went to the convention and saw his buddy Grace there?