The Bears Offseason Thread

[goonys evil twin]

Whenever our breakdowns occurred this year, it seemed to be the safeties blowing it. I really think we need to replace Harris, or Manning, or both.

 

For the most part, you're right. I'd like to see Mike Brown brought back but after his contract has been re-negotiated. I think D. Manning will make a step forward next season but I'd like to see one safety brought in all the same.

 

I don't even think it has to be renegotiated, although it would be nice. It's not a killer cap number by any stretch, and should be able to fit easily under the cap.

[Magnetic Curses]

Whenever our breakdowns occurred this year, it seemed to be the safeties blowing it. I really think we need to replace Harris, or Manning, or both.

 

For the most part, you're right. I'd like to see Mike Brown brought back but after his contract has been re-negotiated. I think D. Manning will make a step forward next season but I'd like to see one safety brought in all the same.

 

i don't think chris harris had that bad of a run this year. aside from a couple of high profile mistakes, he made some pretty good plays down the stretch.

 

if anyone failed, it was d. manning.

[YearofDaCubs]

Tillman is by far better than Vasher IMO. I think some QBs are shy throwing it to Vasher because of his INT skills, but if I had to choose one it would be Tillman. Also, I think Vasher can be a bad tackler at times.

[Magnetic Curses]

Tillman is by far better than Vasher IMO. I think some QBs are shy throwing it to Vasher because of his INT skills, but if I had to choose one it would be Tillman. Also, I think Vasher can be a bad tackler at times.

 

how many passes did tillman break up? i seem to remember him doing a lot of that this past season.

[Soul]

If I had to choose, I'd take Tillman over Vasher. Tillman had a good year, 81 tackles, 5 INTs. People just can't let the Smith thing go-----no cornerback can cover Steve Smith 1-on-1, unless we're planning on signing God to play CB it's time to let it go.

 

Vasher had a down year in 2006/2007, only 45 tackles, 3 INTs. I still think he's fine though.

 

I doubt we'll be put in the position of having to choose, because neither is considered an elite corner, so neither will break the bank.

 

Whenever our breakdowns occurred this year, it seemed to be the safeties blowing it. I really think we need to replace Harris, or Manning, or both.

 

Teams don't throw at Vasher nearly as much as Tillman-I've heard that Tillman got thrown at twice as much as Vasher this year-in fact, Tillman was one of the league leaders at balls thrown his way. Because of this, it seems to reason that Tillman's stats would be a lot better than Vasher's, but he's not necessarily better.

 

Edit: Here's the quote, from Football Outsider's Superbowl Preview:

 

Wayne and Harrison were equal partners during the regular season, but the same can’t be said for Vasher and Tillman. According to the Football Outsiders game charting project, opposing quarterbacks throw at Tillman nearly twice as often as they throw at Vasher. In fact, though the data is not yet complete, we’ve charted more passes at Tillman than any other defender in the league in 2006. Lest you think this is a one-year phenomenon, last year Tillman was thrown at 50 percent more often than Vasher, and was second in the league in pass targets behind Ike Taylor.

 

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/2007/02/01/ramblings/game-previews/4913/

 

He did a good job then, I don't recall a high profile mistake such as with Steve Smith a year earlier. He had 11 PDs, and topped both NFC pro bowl CBs in INTs.

[Banedon]

Don Banks is pretty sure Carr is going to get traded this offseason. Nothing about the Bears, or any place that he'd end up actually...just bashing the '02 draft class. But I'm still in favor of a trade for Carr.

[cubweiser03]

There are 2 examples of plays made by Vasher why i like him so much now. I still like Peanut, but these 2 plays by vasher were outstanding. The int in the saints game and almost int in the Super Bowl covering Marvin deep. Both of those were on deep fly routes where 90% of the CB would be running their ass off downfield with their back to the QB and hopefully break up the pass by flailing there arms in the air at the last second. Vasher was in coverage literally running the route with the WR and his eyes on the QB. This is stuff i see champ bailey do all the time. Im not saying he is champ bailey but to me that is a major bonus in his coverage skills. I hate guys who just run down the field with no idea where the ball is and then get beat or get pass interference calls. How many guys have the skills, guts to do that against Marvin Harrison, not many. If i was a QB and saw the CB looking at me and running the same route as my WR like Vasher i wouldnt throw at him either.

 

I am worried about how the Nate Clements and Asante Samuals deals plays apart in the negotiotion of Peanut and Vasher.

[Soul]

I know what you mean, and I don't think either of our guys run down the field with their arms flailing because they have no clue, but yes Vasher in particular shows great body control.

 

Both our CBs had very few pass interference calls, which is a real credit to them with these rules.

 

I think we'll get them back without much trouble, mostly because I feel they are both slightly underrated.

[BigbadB]

What are Hester's chances of being a starting corner someday?

[goonys evil twin]

What are Hester's chances of being a starting corner someday?

 

I'm going to guess none. Hopefully he's on offense by next season.

[Chocolate Milk]

What are Hester's chances of being a starting corner someday?

 

I'm going to guess none. Hopefully he's on offense by next season.

 

I'd have to agree. Put the kid on offense.

[rawaction]

If I had to choose, I'd take Tillman over Vasher. Tillman had a good year, 81 tackles, 5 INTs. People just can't let the Smith thing go-----no cornerback can cover Steve Smith 1-on-1, unless we're planning on signing God to play CB it's time to let it go.

 

Vasher had a down year in 2006/2007, only 45 tackles, 3 INTs. I still think he's fine though.

 

I doubt we'll be put in the position of having to choose, because neither is considered an elite corner, so neither will break the bank.

 

Whenever our breakdowns occurred this year, it seemed to be the safeties blowing it. I really think we need to replace Harris, or Manning, or both.

 

Teams don't throw at Vasher nearly as much as Tillman-I've heard that Tillman got thrown at twice as much as Vasher this year-in fact, Tillman was one of the league leaders at balls thrown his way. Because of this, it seems to reason that Tillman's stats would be a lot better than Vasher's, but he's not necessarily better.

 

Edit: Here's the quote, from Football Outsider's Superbowl Preview:

 

Wayne and Harrison were equal partners during the regular season, but the same can’t be said for Vasher and Tillman. According to the Football Outsiders game charting project, opposing quarterbacks throw at Tillman nearly twice as often as they throw at Vasher. In fact, though the data is not yet complete, we’ve charted more passes at Tillman than any other defender in the league in 2006. Lest you think this is a one-year phenomenon, last year Tillman was thrown at 50 percent more often than Vasher, and was second in the league in pass targets behind Ike Taylor.

 

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/2007/02/01/ramblings/game-previews/4913/

 

There's a simple reason for that. More often than not, Tillman gets the #1 WR on the opposing team. There was some very lopsided matchups this year against teams with very weak #2 WRs.

 

Roy Williams in Detroit to Tillman (twice), Vasher faced Furrey, who had a good year, but is not near the talent of Williams.

 

Anquan Boldin in Arizona, Vasher faced Bryant Johnson with Fitzgerald out.

 

Plaxico Burress in New York, Vasher faced guys who should have been #4 WRs.

 

Lee Evans in Buffalo, Vasher again faced Josh Reed.

 

In the playoff game in NO, Tillman got Colston, while Vash got Terrance Copper.

 

Those are all guys who those teams' passing games revolved around. Those are guys that are gonna get the ball thrown to them regardless of who is on them.

 

Vasher is a very good CB though. I think Nate could handle those matchups also. He did a great job whenever he did get a tough matchup. But to me, Tillman is a better keeper because he's a better tackler and he's miles better against the run. The top tier of CBs is Champ Bailey. After that, I think Vash and Peanut are in that next tier.

 

Last thing, somebody posted that Ike Taylor had the most passes thrown his way in 2005. Well, I thought he played better CB than anybody in the NFL last season. Don't know what happened to him this year, though.

[rawaction]

What are Hester's chances of being a starting corner someday?

 

I'm going to guess none. Hopefully he's on offense by next season.

 

I think he can be a servicable nickel back, simply based on speed. Even when he got beat this year, he was in a position where a better CB could have made a play. Torry Holt never flat out burned him in the StL game. The TD he gave up in the Probowl is a perfect example of a play that a more experienced CB could have broken up. Hester has horrible technique and can't tackle.

[BigSlick]

If I had to choose, I'd take Tillman over Vasher. Tillman had a good year, 81 tackles, 5 INTs. People just can't let the Smith thing go-----no cornerback can cover Steve Smith 1-on-1, unless we're planning on signing God to play CB it's time to let it go.

 

Vasher had a down year in 2006/2007, only 45 tackles, 3 INTs. I still think he's fine though.

 

I doubt we'll be put in the position of having to choose, because neither is considered an elite corner, so neither will break the bank.

 

Whenever our breakdowns occurred this year, it seemed to be the safeties blowing it. I really think we need to replace Harris, or Manning, or both.

 

Teams don't throw at Vasher nearly as much as Tillman-I've heard that Tillman got thrown at twice as much as Vasher this year-in fact, Tillman was one of the league leaders at balls thrown his way. Because of this, it seems to reason that Tillman's stats would be a lot better than Vasher's, but he's not necessarily better.

 

Edit: Here's the quote, from Football Outsider's Superbowl Preview:

 

Wayne and Harrison were equal partners during the regular season, but the same can’t be said for Vasher and Tillman. According to the Football Outsiders game charting project, opposing quarterbacks throw at Tillman nearly twice as often as they throw at Vasher. In fact, though the data is not yet complete, we’ve charted more passes at Tillman than any other defender in the league in 2006. Lest you think this is a one-year phenomenon, last year Tillman was thrown at 50 percent more often than Vasher, and was second in the league in pass targets behind Ike Taylor.

 

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/2007/02/01/ramblings/game-previews/4913/

 

There's a simple reason for that. More often than not, Tillman gets the #1 WR on the opposing team. There was some very lopsided matchups this year against teams with very weak #2 WRs.

 

Roy Williams in Detroit to Tillman (twice), Vasher faced Furrey, who had a good year, but is not near the talent of Williams.

 

Anquan Boldin in Arizona, Vasher faced Bryant Johnson with Fitzgerald out.

 

Plaxico Burress in New York, Vasher faced guys who should have been #4 WRs.

 

Lee Evans in Buffalo, Vasher again faced Josh Reed.

 

In the playoff game in NO, Tillman got Colston, while Vash got Terrance Copper.

 

Those are all guys who those teams' passing games revolved around. Those are guys that are gonna get the ball thrown to them regardless of who is on them.

 

Vasher is a very good CB though. I think Nate could handle those matchups also. He did a great job whenever he did get a tough matchup. But to me, Tillman is a better keeper because he's a better tackler and he's miles better against the run. The top tier of CBs is Champ Bailey. After that, I think Vash and Peanut are in that next tier.

 

Last thing, somebody posted that Ike Taylor had the most passes thrown his way in 2005. Well, I thought he played better CB than anybody in the NFL last season. Don't know what happened to him this year, though.

 

Wrong. Tillman wasn't healthy to play in Detroit, and that was one big reason why he caught all over us.

[Banedon]

If I had to choose, I'd take Tillman over Vasher. Tillman had a good year, 81 tackles, 5 INTs. People just can't let the Smith thing go-----no cornerback can cover Steve Smith 1-on-1, unless we're planning on signing God to play CB it's time to let it go.

 

Vasher had a down year in 2006/2007, only 45 tackles, 3 INTs. I still think he's fine though.

 

I doubt we'll be put in the position of having to choose, because neither is considered an elite corner, so neither will break the bank.

 

Whenever our breakdowns occurred this year, it seemed to be the safeties blowing it. I really think we need to replace Harris, or Manning, or both.

 

Teams don't throw at Vasher nearly as much as Tillman-I've heard that Tillman got thrown at twice as much as Vasher this year-in fact, Tillman was one of the league leaders at balls thrown his way. Because of this, it seems to reason that Tillman's stats would be a lot better than Vasher's, but he's not necessarily better.

 

Edit: Here's the quote, from Football Outsider's Superbowl Preview:

 

Wayne and Harrison were equal partners during the regular season, but the same can’t be said for Vasher and Tillman. According to the Football Outsiders game charting project, opposing quarterbacks throw at Tillman nearly twice as often as they throw at Vasher. In fact, though the data is not yet complete, we’ve charted more passes at Tillman than any other defender in the league in 2006. Lest you think this is a one-year phenomenon, last year Tillman was thrown at 50 percent more often than Vasher, and was second in the league in pass targets behind Ike Taylor.

 

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/2007/02/01/ramblings/game-previews/4913/

 

There's a simple reason for that. More often than not, Tillman gets the #1 WR on the opposing team. There was some very lopsided matchups this year against teams with very weak #2 WRs.

 

Roy Williams in Detroit to Tillman (twice), Vasher faced Furrey, who had a good year, but is not near the talent of Williams.

 

Anquan Boldin in Arizona, Vasher faced Bryant Johnson with Fitzgerald out.

 

Plaxico Burress in New York, Vasher faced guys who should have been #4 WRs.

 

Lee Evans in Buffalo, Vasher again faced Josh Reed.

 

In the playoff game in NO, Tillman got Colston, while Vash got Terrance Copper.

 

Those are all guys who those teams' passing games revolved around. Those are guys that are gonna get the ball thrown to them regardless of who is on them.

 

Vasher is a very good CB though. I think Nate could handle those matchups also. He did a great job whenever he did get a tough matchup. But to me, Tillman is a better keeper because he's a better tackler and he's miles better against the run. The top tier of CBs is Champ Bailey. After that, I think Vash and Peanut are in that next tier.

 

Last thing, somebody posted that Ike Taylor had the most passes thrown his way in 2005. Well, I thought he played better CB than anybody in the NFL last season. Don't know what happened to him this year, though.

 

I was going to post something similar, but I was too lazy to do the legwork on it. I completely agree with you.

[rawaction]

If I had to choose, I'd take Tillman over Vasher. Tillman had a good year, 81 tackles, 5 INTs. People just can't let the Smith thing go-----no cornerback can cover Steve Smith 1-on-1, unless we're planning on signing God to play CB it's time to let it go.

 

Vasher had a down year in 2006/2007, only 45 tackles, 3 INTs. I still think he's fine though.

 

I doubt we'll be put in the position of having to choose, because neither is considered an elite corner, so neither will break the bank.

 

Whenever our breakdowns occurred this year, it seemed to be the safeties blowing it. I really think we need to replace Harris, or Manning, or both.

 

Teams don't throw at Vasher nearly as much as Tillman-I've heard that Tillman got thrown at twice as much as Vasher this year-in fact, Tillman was one of the league leaders at balls thrown his way. Because of this, it seems to reason that Tillman's stats would be a lot better than Vasher's, but he's not necessarily better.

 

Edit: Here's the quote, from Football Outsider's Superbowl Preview:

 

Wayne and Harrison were equal partners during the regular season, but the same can’t be said for Vasher and Tillman. According to the Football Outsiders game charting project, opposing quarterbacks throw at Tillman nearly twice as often as they throw at Vasher. In fact, though the data is not yet complete, we’ve charted more passes at Tillman than any other defender in the league in 2006. Lest you think this is a one-year phenomenon, last year Tillman was thrown at 50 percent more often than Vasher, and was second in the league in pass targets behind Ike Taylor.

 

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/2007/02/01/ramblings/game-previews/4913/

 

There's a simple reason for that. More often than not, Tillman gets the #1 WR on the opposing team. There was some very lopsided matchups this year against teams with very weak #2 WRs.

 

Roy Williams in Detroit to Tillman (twice), Vasher faced Furrey, who had a good year, but is not near the talent of Williams.

 

Anquan Boldin in Arizona, Vasher faced Bryant Johnson with Fitzgerald out.

 

Plaxico Burress in New York, Vasher faced guys who should have been #4 WRs.

 

Lee Evans in Buffalo, Vasher again faced Josh Reed.

 

In the playoff game in NO, Tillman got Colston, while Vash got Terrance Copper.

 

Those are all guys who those teams' passing games revolved around. Those are guys that are gonna get the ball thrown to them regardless of who is on them.

 

Vasher is a very good CB though. I think Nate could handle those matchups also. He did a great job whenever he did get a tough matchup. But to me, Tillman is a better keeper because he's a better tackler and he's miles better against the run. The top tier of CBs is Champ Bailey. After that, I think Vash and Peanut are in that next tier.

 

Last thing, somebody posted that Ike Taylor had the most passes thrown his way in 2005. Well, I thought he played better CB than anybody in the NFL last season. Don't know what happened to him this year, though.

 

Wrong. Tillman wasn't healthy to play in Detroit, and that was one big reason why he caught all over us.

 

Sorry. That just throws my whole point out the window.

[Soul]

What are Hester's chances of being a starting corner someday?

 

I'm going to guess none. Hopefully he's on offense by next season.

 

I think he can be a servicable nickel back, simply based on speed. Even when he got beat this year, he was in a position where a better CB could have made a play. Torry Holt never flat out burned him in the StL game. The TD he gave up in the Probowl is a perfect example of a play that a more experienced CB could have broken up. Hester has horrible technique and can't tackle.

 

I don't think he'll even play nickel. He might be good on offense for gadget plays, though. Just faking it to him could put someone out of position.

[Banedon]

According to Richard Justice, David Carr will likely be traded around the time of the draft, and that the Texans will probably have to settle for a fifth round pick. There are a lot of rumors out there about the Vikings getting him, but they appear to be just that...rumors.

 

In any case, the Texans GM has confirmedthere's been inquiries about Carr's availability.

[Mark Priors Calves]

According to Richard Justice, David Carr will likely be traded around the time of the draft, and that the Texans will probably have to settle for a fifth round pick. There are a lot of rumors out there about the Vikings getting him, but they appear to be just that...rumors.

 

In any case, the Texans GM has confirmedthere's been inquiries about Carr's availability.

 

jake plummer is rumored to be heading to the texans.

[Soul]

According to Richard Justice, David Carr will likely be traded around the time of the draft, and that the Texans will probably have to settle for a fifth round pick. There are a lot of rumors out there about the Vikings getting him, but they appear to be just that...rumors.

 

In any case, the Texans GM has confirmedthere's been inquiries about Carr's availability.

 

Wowza. 5th round pick for Carr? Wouldn't just about every team jump into those trade talks?

 

I think that's low. Carr's failures have clearly been partially due to an inept franchise.

[CubColtPacer]

According to Richard Justice, David Carr will likely be traded around the time of the draft, and that the Texans will probably have to settle for a fifth round pick. There are a lot of rumors out there about the Vikings getting him, but they appear to be just that...rumors.

 

In any case, the Texans GM has confirmedthere's been inquiries about Carr's availability.

 

Wowza. 5th round pick for Carr? Wouldn't just about every team jump into those trade talks?

 

I think that's low. Carr's failures have clearly been partially due to an inept franchise.

 

It's true, but it may take a long time to uncondition him from what he is now-he definitely looks like now that he's always feeling the pressure where it is there or not. Playing behind a good line will help that, but it will take time for him to re-learn how to stay in the pocket and throw the ball downfield a little more in order for him to be consistently effective as an NFL QB.

[TB_11]

ESPN analysts project the Bears 1st round pick:

 

- Todd McShay: Greg Olsen, TE from Miami (FL)

- Mel Kiper: Arron Sears, OL from Tennessee

 

Don't really understand the McShay projection. He seemed like more of a pass-catching TE, and Desmond Clark proved his worth this year.

[goonys evil twin]

ESPN analysts project the Bears 1st round pick:

 

- Todd McShay: Greg Olsen, TE from Miami (FL)

- Mel Kiper: Arron Sears, OL from Tennessee

 

Don't really understand the McShay projection.

 

People need to get over the TE fascination. The Bears TE group is fine. There are only a handful (maybe 5?) really good TE in football. Unless you get one of those, there's no reason to be spending 1st round picks on them. Every year there's 2-3 guys who are considered can't miss TE who are picked early and flame out.

[Soul]

ESPN analysts project the Bears 1st round pick:

 

- Todd McShay: Greg Olsen, TE from Miami (FL)

- Mel Kiper: Arron Sears, OL from Tennessee

 

Don't really understand the McShay projection.

 

People need to get over the TE fascination. The Bears TE group is fine. There are only a handful (maybe 5?) really good TE in football. Unless you get one of those, there's no reason to be spending 1st round picks on them. Every year there's 2-3 guys who are considered can't miss TE who are picked early and flame out.

 

Yeah, the general rule of thumb is that Angelo won't draft a 1st round TE anyway.

 

I wonder if McShay realizes this. Kiper could be right, although I think some of it hinges on whether Briggs is kept. We do need OL help soon.

[Guest]

ESPN analysts project the Bears 1st round pick:

 

- Todd McShay: Greg Olsen, TE from Miami (FL)

- Mel Kiper: Arron Sears, OL from Tennessee

 

Don't really understand the McShay projection.

 

People need to get over the TE fascination. The Bears TE group is fine. There are only a handful (maybe 5?) really good TE in football. Unless you get one of those, there's no reason to be spending 1st round picks on them. Every year there's 2-3 guys who are considered can't miss TE who are picked early and flame out.

 

 

Clark/Heap/Crumpler/Gates/Gonzalez/Whitten/Shockey/Winslow(

 

So and no, goony, the Bears TE core is not fine. I like Desmond Clark, so he is solid, but Gilmore/Reid are practice squad caliber TE. So yeah, count me as one who believe the Bears offense would be better, if they had an IMPACT TE on the team. TEs are having bigger impacts on Offense in today's game, then ever before, and if the Bears continue to "ignore" the problem, it's going to hurt the offense. Not to mention neither Bradley/Berrian have established themselves as "true threats" consistantly. So, until then, I like to give Grossman, or whoever will be the QB in 2007 as many OFFENSIVE weapons as possible.

 

Ignoring the TE is a problem, because sooner or later you will have to replace Clark. So to get Olsen/Miller or Chandler this yr, would go a long ways to help the offense.

 

So goony, it's not a "TE fascination", it's fact. If the Bears miss out on a TE in this yr's draft, then perhaps Angelo is "asleep at the wheel."