Pujols poll

[TruffleShuffle]

OK now my thoughts on your list:

 

Pitchers:

 

Kid Nichols belongs on there, even though I'm sure nobody knows who he is. Don Sutton has no business being on that list. Consider Bob Feller or Carl Hubbell. There are probably better options than Gaylord Perry too.

 

 

Hitters:

 

Manny Ramirez... is he better than Yaz and Shoeless Joe at this point? If so he belongs on the list. If not, he probably doesn't.

 

Rafael Palmeiro, Todd Helton, Jim Thome, Vladimir Guerrero, Carlos Delgado shouldn't be on the list IMO. Neither should Winfield, Dawson, Brock. Stargell, Banks, Sheffield are borderline.

 

 

The most glaring omissions, in order of James' rankings, are:

15. Joe Morgan

18. Eddie Collins

26. Rickey Henderson

30. George Brett

32. Jackie Robinson

33. Pete Rose

35. Craig Biggio

39. Arky Vaughan (seriously, look him up)

40. Nap Lajoie

41. Yogi Berra

44. Johnny Bench

50. Duke Snider

53. Roy Campanella

54. Tony Gwynn

55. Robin Yount

58. Ryne Sandberg

59. Charlie Gehringer

60. Wade Boggs

[goonys evil twin]

Probably just because there has to be a line somewhere. The HOF recognizes people who play at a high level for an extended period of time, and that rule will ensure that even the brightest flashes in the pan don't get in.

 

Say that rule isn't there, and Pujols has a career-ending injury this season. Then the argument inevitably arises about his career and whether he should make it. Then say a pitcher named Kerry Prior comes along, strikes out 20 in his first month in the bigs, puts up nothing but 18+win seasons and sub 2.50 ERAs for the first four years of his career and leads the majors in pretty much every possible pitching category, even finds a perfect game in there somewhere, but falls prey to a career-ending sore shoulder after only four or five seasons. How do you figure that into the debate? Players all over the league will have great career years. If someone has a few career years early on but isn't in the game long enough to prove that they can sustain playing at the elite level through their peak years, why should they be honored as the best of the best among such a rich history?

 

/thread hijack

 

I think the voting process would take care of that on its own.

[Derwood]

I have trouble with some of the very early guys like Cy Young. Not only a higher mound but pitching from, what, 50 feet away? It seems like a totally different game at that point

[illiniguy]

I have trouble with some of the very early guys like Cy Young. Not only a higher mound but pitching from, what, 50 feet away? It seems like a totally different game at that point

and? There are many players now who juice or have juiced. Seems like that would make the game pretty different as well. How can you not have Cy Young, or Ty Cobb, or hell even Ruth for that matter since he played against both of those guys?

[Transmogrified Tiger]

I have trouble with some of the very early guys like Cy Young. Not only a higher mound but pitching from, what, 50 feet away? It seems like a totally different game at that point

and? Thereare many players now who juice or have juiced. Seems like that would make the game pretty different as well.

 

That's nowhere near the impact of having the mound ten feet closer. Ten feet is an enormous difference, it just kills reaction time.

[soccer10k]

I have trouble with some of the very early guys like Cy Young. Not only a higher mound but pitching from, what, 50 feet away? It seems like a totally different game at that point

and? Thereare many players now who juice or have juiced. Seems like that would make the game pretty different as well.

 

Raising the mound only helps the pitchers while lowering the mound only helps the hitters. Steroids help both.

[illiniguy]

I have trouble with some of the very early guys like Cy Young. Not only a higher mound but pitching from, what, 50 feet away? It seems like a totally different game at that point

and? Thereare many players now who juice or have juiced. Seems like that would make the game pretty different as well.

 

That's nowhere near the impact of having the mound ten feet closer. Ten feet is an enormous difference, it just kills reaction time.

That maybe the case, but you just cannot leave Cy Young out of the list of the best baseball players ever.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

I have trouble with some of the very early guys like Cy Young. Not only a higher mound but pitching from, what, 50 feet away? It seems like a totally different game at that point

and? Thereare many players now who juice or have juiced. Seems like that would make the game pretty different as well.

 

That's nowhere near the impact of having the mound ten feet closer. Ten feet is an enormous difference, it just kills reaction time.

That maybe the case, but you just cannot leave Cy Young out of the list of the best baseball players ever.

 

I didn't say that, merely that you can't equate that much difference in the actual playing field to the suspected steroid use of today.

[illiniguy]

I have trouble with some of the very early guys like Cy Young. Not only a higher mound but pitching from, what, 50 feet away? It seems like a totally different game at that point

and? Thereare many players now who juice or have juiced. Seems like that would make the game pretty different as well.

 

That's nowhere near the impact of having the mound ten feet closer. Ten feet is an enormous difference, it just kills reaction time.

That maybe the case, but you just cannot leave Cy Young out of the list of the best baseball players ever.

 

I didn't say that, merely that you can't equate that much difference in the actual playing field to the suspected steroid use of today.

I know that was more in response to the earlier poster saying he would like to keep those guys off that type of list.

[Uber]

What kind of Greatest player poll leaves off Pete Rose?

[wolf stansson]

What kind of Greatest player poll leaves off Pete Rose?

One that values peak-year dominance more than longevity I guess.

 

PS - The polls start today.

 

http://gatewayredbirds.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=15

[Derwood]

I guess Cy Young shouldn't be left off the list, but his wins record is just not fair. No one is going to pitch 60 times a year from 50 feet away anymore (against hitters who are full time shoe salesmen who play baseball for 50 cents a week)

[illiniguy]

I guess Cy Young shouldn't be left off the list, but his wins record is just not fair. No one is going to pitch 60 times a year from 50 feet away anymore (against hitters who are full time shoe salesmen who play baseball for 50 cents a week)

Right, but wouldn't Cy also have possibly been a shoe salesmen as well?

[Derwood]

Cy Young is the all time leader in losses.

[indifferent]

New polls are up in the Greatest Baseball Player of All-Time Tourney.

 

http://gatewayredbirds.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=15