Willy Taveras?

[treebird]

never struck me as an exceptional CF.

 

Dewan, in the Fielding Bible, said Taveras should have won the gold glove in 2005, and Taveras ranks near the top of most advanced metrics.

 

I'm not saying I want him - far from it - if the Cubs trade for him, I'm selling all my tickets again this year - but defense is the one positive he brings.

 

I'll agree that I've always thought Taveras was a very good defensive cf.

 

What would be hilarious if we traded for Willy would be to see if Hendry still let Barrett go after next season in favor of a defensive-minded catcher. Can you imagine a bottom of the order like Taveras-Izturis-Blanco?

[cheapseats]

Can you imagine a bottom of the order like Taveras-Izturis-Blanco?

 

I can imagine Taveras and Izturis hitting 1-2. Gotta have speed in the leadoff spot and gotta have someone who "handles the bat" (most inane baseball cliche ever) hitting second.

[RichHillIsABeast]

If I had to take one player for 2007 in CF, I'd take Taveras.

 

If my choices were Taveras and Pierre, I'd keep shopping.

 

:lol:

[Post Count Padder]

Can you imagine a bottom of the order like Taveras-Izturis-Blanco?

 

I can imagine Taveras and Izturis hitting 1-2. Gotta have speed in the leadoff spot and gotta have someone who "handles the bat" (most inane baseball cliche ever) hitting second.

Thank God Dusty's gone, or we'd have to endure that on a regular basis.

[cheapseats]

Can you imagine a bottom of the order like Taveras-Izturis-Blanco?

 

I can imagine Taveras and Izturis hitting 1-2. Gotta have speed in the leadoff spot and gotta have someone who "handles the bat" (most inane baseball cliche ever) hitting second.

Thank God Dusty's gone, or we'd have to endure that on a regular basis.

 

If the Cubs actually do trade for Taveras, I fully expect to see him bat first and Izturis second for at least ten games.

 

Lou loves to hit-and-run, and Izturis can really handle the bat.

[Jehrico]

Trading for Tavares might not actually be that bad of a deal.....

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Izturis for Tavares?

 

Or better yet, Izturis and Jones for Hawpe and Tavares (I know, I'm dreaming...)

 

Any deal for Tavares sucks unless we're getting rid of Izturis in return...

[nilodnayr]

Even for a guy like Hendry who's in love with toolsy players, what tool other than speed does Taveras have? He can't hit for power or average, regardless of that Cub series doesn't have a great arm (2 of those 3 players thown out were Aramis and Barrett), and never struck me as an exceptional CF.

 

Is speed really that damn important to the Cubs?

 

Taveras is a career .284 hitter in his first two years in the majors. He did start to show some patients at the plate last year.

 

Doesn't he have a career BABIP of like .340?

 

Yup

 

In 05 he had a .348 (with a 18.9% LD%)

In 06 he had a .332 (with a 17.5% LD%)

[cheapseats]

Even for a guy like Hendry who's in love with toolsy players, what tool other than speed does Taveras have? He can't hit for power or average, regardless of that Cub series doesn't have a great arm (2 of those 3 players thown out were Aramis and Barrett), and never struck me as an exceptional CF.

 

Is speed really that damn important to the Cubs?

 

Taveras is a career .284 hitter in his first two years in the majors. He did start to show some patients at the plate last year.

 

Doesn't he have a career BABIP of like .340?

 

Yup

 

In 05 he had a .348 (with a 18.9% LD%)

In 06 he had a .332 (with a 17.5% LD%)

 

But he's so fast that he'll always beat his expected BABIP.

 

Except when he doesn't, like Juan Pierre in 2005 and 2006.

[Balsa]

If we trade for Taveras, I may actually puke.

[Mark Priors Calves]

this has jim hendry all over it and i hope i'm dead wrong.

[nilodnayr]

Even for a guy like Hendry who's in love with toolsy players, what tool other than speed does Taveras have? He can't hit for power or average, regardless of that Cub series doesn't have a great arm (2 of those 3 players thown out were Aramis and Barrett), and never struck me as an exceptional CF.

 

Is speed really that damn important to the Cubs?

 

Taveras is a career .284 hitter in his first two years in the majors. He did start to show some patients at the plate last year.

 

Doesn't he have a career BABIP of like .340?

 

Yup

 

In 05 he had a .348 (with a 18.9% LD%)

In 06 he had a .332 (with a 17.5% LD%)

 

But he's so fast that he'll always beat his expected BABIP.

 

Except when he doesn't, like Juan Pierre in 2005 and 2006.

And his 2002 and 2003 :) And Pierre always had higher LD%.

[CubColtPacer]

never struck me as an exceptional CF.

 

Dewan, in the Fielding Bible, said Taveras should have won the gold glove in 2005, and Taveras ranks near the top of most advanced metrics.

 

I'm not saying I want him - far from it - if the Cubs trade for him, I'm selling all my tickets again this year - but defense is the one positive he brings.

 

Which would then make perfect sense for Colorado to keep him, since they have the most spacious CF in the big leagues.

 

That's what I don't understand. In Colorado (and to a lesser extent Houston) and a few other ballparks he has value because of his defensive range in CF. He might have the most range of anybody in the NL now. However, if he comes to Wrigley, his biggest asset is mostly wasted, and that just further exposes the things he cannot do with the bat.

[nilodnayr]

never struck me as an exceptional CF.

 

Dewan, in the Fielding Bible, said Taveras should have won the gold glove in 2005, and Taveras ranks near the top of most advanced metrics.

 

I'm not saying I want him - far from it - if the Cubs trade for him, I'm selling all my tickets again this year - but defense is the one positive he brings.

 

Which would then make perfect sense for Colorado to keep him, since they have the most spacious CF in the big leagues.

 

That's what I don't understand. In Colorado (and to a lesser extent Houston) and a few other ballparks he has value because of his defensive range in CF. He might have the most range of anybody in the NL now. However, if he comes to Wrigley, his biggest asset is mostly wasted, and that just further exposes the things he cannot do with the bat.

 

Yeah, makes about as much sense as signing a fly ball pitcher...ohh crap.

[Magnetic Curses]

brady clark please.

 

for everyone's info, i'll stop lobbying for clark when we actually trade for him or the season begins.

[RynoRules]

Ugh - I was ready to put a stamp of approval on this offseason if he got Church or someone else for RF and moved Jones to CF.

 

There's still time to do the right thing, Jim!

[moorecg]

I'm not necessarily advocating this....but is the idea of it it really as god awful as some people are saying?

 

His OBP last year is only one one hundredth less than Jones,

He plays very good defense

he's only 24, and has shown improvment in walks and OBP

in the 2nd half of the season last year his OBP was a lot closer to .350.

he's fast as hell (waiting to get flamed for acknowledging this)

 

 

I'm not at all saying we should give up a ton of good prospects for him, but the guy has some good potential to be a solid MLB player...he's not the second coming of Neifi.

[goonys evil twin]

I'm not necessarily advocating this....but is the idea of it it really as god awful as some people are saying?

 

His OBP last year is only one one hundredth less than Jones,

He plays very good defense

he's only 24, and has shown improvment in walks and OBP

in the 2nd half of the season last year his OBP was a lot closer to .350.

he's fast as hell (waiting to get flamed for acknowledging this)

 

 

I'm not at all saying we should give up a ton of good prospects for him, but the guy has some good potential to be a solid MLB player...he's not the second coming of Neifi.

 

Yes, it is god awful. He had a worse year than Juan Pierre. You can count on him being worse than Juan was agains this year. He's crap.

[moorecg]

I'm not necessarily advocating this....but is the idea of it it really as god awful as some people are saying?

 

His OBP last year is only one one hundredth less than Jones,

He plays very good defense

he's only 24, and has shown improvment in walks and OBP

in the 2nd half of the season last year his OBP was a lot closer to .350.

he's fast as hell (waiting to get flamed for acknowledging this)

 

 

I'm not at all saying we should give up a ton of good prospects for him, but the guy has some good potential to be a solid MLB player...he's not the second coming of Neifi.

 

Yes, it is god awful. He had a worse year than Juan Pierre. You can count on him being worse than Juan was agains this year. He's crap.

 

Goony the kid is 24, and improved from his age 23 season...his OPS+ or whatever you referenced above may have been worse than pierre's but the guy actually had a higher OBP...and he had more walks than Pierre in almost 170 fewer at bats...., if we hypothetically got the guy, we'd not be looking for power out of him, it'd be for his defense and potential...if you stuck him in the lineup like this:

 

Soriano

Murton

Lee

Ramirez

Barrett

Derosa

Tavarez

Isturiz

Pitcher

 

You'd have a great top half of the line up and then 7-8 would be weaker, but good-great fielders....and if Tavarez were to improve at the same rate he did last year, you'd have a .340+ OBP out of him in the top 1/2 of our regular players last year.

 

Again, I'm not saying he's great by any means...just that the "i'm never watching the cubs again" comments by some above are the usual over reactions.

[Backtobanks]

Willy Tavares a.k.a. Angel Pagan. What's the point of trading for him.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Ugh - I was ready to put a stamp of approval on this offseason if he got Church or someone else for RF and moved Jones to CF.

 

There's still time to do the right thing, Jim!

 

You're gonna hurt Alfonso's feelings saying things like that.

[nilodnayr]

Goony the kid is 24, and improved from his age 23 season...his OPS+ or whatever you referenced above may have been worse than pierre's but the guy actually had a higher OBP...and he had more walks than Pierre in almost 170 fewer at bats

 

A ,055 IsoD is only good if you are hitting .300. Saying his patience is better than Pierre's is like saying his physique is better than Matt Stairs'.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

My response to the initial post in this thread, "Awwww HELL NO!"

[moorecg]

Goony the kid is 24, and improved from his age 23 season...his OPS+ or whatever you referenced above may have been worse than pierre's but the guy actually had a higher OBP...and he had more walks than Pierre in almost 170 fewer at bats

 

A ,055 IsoD is only good if you are hitting .300. Saying his patience is better than Pierre's is like saying his physique is better than Matt Stairs'.

 

But unlike Matt Stairs' physique, its improving!

 

Again..I'm not saying the guy is great...just that at age 24, he's improving...if he continues to improve, he could be a very solid player, if his OBP would improve 8 points a year between now and age 28, he'll make a lot of money in free agency.

[goonys evil twin]

Goony the kid is 24, and improved from his age 23 season...his OPS+ or whatever you referenced above may have been worse than pierre's but the guy actually had a higher OBP...and he had more walks than Pierre in almost 170 fewer at bats...., if we hypothetically got the guy, we'd not be looking for power out of him, it'd be for his defense and potential...if you stuck him in the lineup like this:

 

Soriano

Murton

Lee

Ramirez

Barrett

Derosa

Tavarez

Isturiz

Pitcher

 

You'd have a great top half of the line up and then 7-8 would be weaker, but good-great fielders....and if Tavarez were to improve at the same rate he did last year, you'd have a .340+ OBP out of him in the top 1/2 of our regular players last year.

 

Again, I'm not saying he's great by any means...just that the "i'm never watching the cubs again" comments by some above are the usual over reactions.

 

Just because we "aren't looking for power out of him" doesn't mean it's okay to have absolutely none. And he doesnt' have any potential. He is what he is, which isn't good. He's the same player he was in the minors, which is nothing. The last thing the Cubs need to be doing is acquiring guys for their defense, they haven't sucked because of defense. They've sucked because their lineup has sucked and their rotation has sucked. Taveras was worse than Pierre last year. His OBP ticked higher last year, barely, it was just .008. He also had a decline in AVG and SLG. That's not a sign of a guy who's poised to show off his potential.

 

He doesn't produce worth a crap, and the Cubs don't need anymore people who don't produce. This would be a horrible acquisition, as usual.

[nilodnayr]

Goony the kid is 24, and improved from his age 23 season...his OPS+ or whatever you referenced above may have been worse than pierre's but the guy actually had a higher OBP...and he had more walks than Pierre in almost 170 fewer at bats

 

A ,055 IsoD is only good if you are hitting .300. Saying his patience is better than Pierre's is like saying his physique is better than Matt Stairs'.

 

But unlike Matt Stairs' physique, its improving!

 

Again..I'm not saying the guy is great...just that at age 24, he's improving...if he continues to improve, he could be a very solid player, if his OBP would improve 8 points a year between now and age 28, he'll make a lot of money in free agency.

 

And if Ryan Church's OPS+ keeps on improving 8 points a year, he'll be a hall of famer when he reaches free agency.